To give up or struggle on,that is the question!

[SlipperySquid]

Hello all,

I suppose everyone goes through this point of the hobby at some time and I've seen a number of threads that confirm this but alas I am at the end of my tether.

Last night I got the gear out for a couple of hours to test the Baader MPCC that the my missus "God bless her persevering soul" bought for me as a little birthday pressie but the mount and guiding would not play ball anyway long story short, I'm trying to get 12minute plus subs with a HEQ5 with a 12kg load (I got the scales out this morning as I knew deep down I was overloading).....basically it's not going to happen is it.

I recently put the 200P back onto the mount with view to getting the bubble and m27 etc and some rgb time on some galaxies, I think I will be able to get 7mins max with set up with no wind etc

Anyway, I think I'm sick of throwing money at this hobby now and I'm on the cusp of having a massive sale, throwing the towel in and starting something else. I can get a Vixen r200ss locally which will reduce the load on my mount by at least 4kg AND be a shorter tube by about 200mm but it needs a focuser upgrade. I also have the Megrez 72mm which I'm popping back out of it's case and putting back on the mount just in case we get a full nights clear skies. Or another option is to sell the HEQ5 and put the cash towards a second hand EQ6 (come up often on the second hand market BUT always seem to be down south and the cost of fuel doesn't make them such a good deal).

I do love the hobby, even the setting up and the messing about BUT I realistically don't want to keep throwing money at the thing until the problems go away.

The megrez is great but I wanted the bigger aperture available for when I want to get in close....Will the 4kg weight difference between the vixen and the skywatcher be a lot better or am I just banging my head against a brick wall here?

Thoughts please to help a broken man

Matt (on the edge of the abyss)

[ollypenrice]

Deep breath! And another one!!

Okay, here's what I would say; keep away from long focal lengths and specialize in widefield imaging.

In my own imaging I only enjoy it when it works. With my professional provider head on, ditto, it has to work or I'm letting people down. For it to work regularly you have to have more mount than scope and by a large margin. I could put a C11 Edge on my Takahashi EM200 mount but I don't. I call it quits at the TEC140 giving a metre of focal length and I get a very high success rate. Conservative? You bet, and it isn't a natural mode for me since I'm a bit of a necky soul in most activites.

What taxes a mount? Weight - everyone knows that - and focal length, which tends to be something more experienced imagers put high on the list of dangers but which beginners often overlook.

If you have a Megrez, a reducer-flattener, an autoguider and an HEQ5 you are good to go. Forget getting closer. Forget collimating reflectors. Go wider instead. Get into mosaics. The satisfaction is intense and nothing provokes more interest on the forums. With a short FL small refractor most of your time goes into getting data and a minimum into setting up. If you really want to get the work done, sell the other stuff, get another second hand Meg72 and 16HR and run a 2 shooter on the same mount!! (There's a second hand 66 for sale. That would do as well. They're all at it up your way, or at least Martin_h is...)

Keep it simple, stick to about twice the mount you really need. Enjoy.

Olly

[MjrTom]

Dont dispair

I think we have all gone through this phase at some point or another.

A 200P on a HEQ5 is pushing it a bit. As Olly has said its all about the mount.

You dont really want to be adding any more weight than 50% of your mounts capability and even then these big newts can vibrate, blow in the wind, flex quite a bit unless they are on a hefty mount like the EQ6 you have mentioned.

What about maybe doing more imaging with the Megrez 72? far more forgiving on tracking/auto guiding errors.

[RikM]

There's no way you should give up. Your images have been great.

Switching to the Vixen would put you at about 8kg or a little over half the max for an HEQ5, but it's still a monster OTA. I know my little 150P acts like a sail in the wind. Give the Meg 72 a proper workout until you raise the cash for an NEQ6.

[Psychobilly]

Have a break - Find something different and ideally cheap and easy to do - For me it was widefield with camera lenses but that ended up being far from cheap and Video Astronomy to get me using the SCT again...

Peter...

[SlipperySquid]

I know that is the answer in a nutshell Olly, though when you say a "large" margin is that eq6 minimum?

I still want to enjoy life but all my spare cash goes on this hobby at the moment but hey ho in for a penny!

Missed all the other posts while I was writing this!! Thanks fellas I suppose we all need a "virtual hug" once in a while *sniff sniff.

I'm in agreement with you all that the megrez is the way to go for the time being and concentrate on saving for the NEQ6 once my holiday is paid for!

Right now I have to go and do some painting as I can't afford a decorator unless he want s to take a 200p in part exchange

Matt.

[barkis]

I shall probably meet the same problems blighting you SS, as I shall be dipping toes in the same maelstrom pretty soon, and I don't expect an easy ride. I have done Imaging before, but many years ago when Auto guiding was only a dream, and I did it with a second scope with triple the focal length of the imaging one, and using a hand controller with speed control buttons to maintain a guidestar on the crosshairs of a guiding eyepiece. A film camera to boot.

Guiding was a physical drain, and although I could manage it, the results, on DSO's at least, were pure garbage. But, being a lot younger then, and not without tenacity, I plodded on, and eventually got some half decent stuff that even wowed my Astro Society colleagues. By todays standards though, still rubbish .

Todays gear is much much better though, and I have greater expectations, and what's more, lots of help and encouragement available from members of this forum if and when I need it.

I don't think you'll give up, you will keep at it, and you will get there I'm sure. I've no doubt we'll see a fantastic shot of the Ortion Nebula from you in the near future, perhaps even a POTW award .

Go on, you know you can do it.

Ron.

[pete_l]

I recently put the 200P back onto the mount with view to getting the bubble and m27 etc and some rgb time on some galaxies, I think I will be able to get 7mins max with set up with no wind etc

I'd definitely go with the "less is more" approach here. As already said, get the weight down - the scope's, not yours . I'd also go with shorter subs. Here's why:

If the chance of a gust of wind spoiling a sub is the same for every minute of the exposure (say you get 1 gust every 42 minutes) then with 7 minute subs, you'd expect to lose 1 in every 6, as there are 6 7-minute subs in a 42 minute inter-gust period. That means you only get 35 minutes of actual, usable imaging. By going with 3 minute exposures you'd only lose 1 in 14, so you'd have 39 minutes of usable images. If you get gusts more often, or other disturbances - say a rough patch on the drive, you'll lose proportionately much more with long subs than with short ones. Not to mention the greater frustration factor.

Typically, spring and autumn have better viewing/imaging opportunities than summer/winter (the sweet combination of longer nights, and less cloud) so I'd suggest giving the next few months a go with a slimmed down, shorter sub, configuration.

[lukebl]

Not much consolation, I know, but I do feel your pain.

How many other hobbies/pastimes are so fraught with frustration and expense? But I wouldn't give up on the 200P/HEQ5 combo just yet. I had that setup till last year (moved up to an NEQ6) and found it excellent for imaging. In fact, the results then were better than my current efforts, and I'm tempted to return to that setup

Who was it in this forum who said that imaging consisted of 'hours of fruitless endeavour, interspersed with brief moments of satisfaction'?

[steppenwolf]

Been there SS and I'm there a little bit right now having spent some serious money on the hobby recently with minimal results to show for it. Olly could have been quoting from Making Every Photon Count but I know he wasn't - his advice is absolutely spot on and based on his own experiences. His gear may be a step up from yours but the principles are the same and I think you could get some great results from the HEQ5 and Megrez 72 and to be honest, I am not convinced that the move to an EQ6 would give that bigger return if you stick to wider fields. I have an elderly EQ6 and I love it (most of the time ....) but with the loading that Olly is suggesting with the Megrez, the HEQ5 should be fine. In any event, you've got nothing to lose by giving it a good go as you've already stumped up the money for it.

This is what I'd do - take a week off while you put the 200P in careful storage. Polish up the HEQ5 remembering to WD40 the chrome weight bar. Practice setting up the whole imaging system in the lounge until you can do it in a short time and mark the positions of the components in their mountings so that you have an almost perfectly balanced system before you have even checked by unlocking the clutches outside. Then, first clear night go out and capture a fairly easy target, perhaps NGC7000 which is well placed right now after it has passed the Zenith and have some fun with a real result.

[shaunster]

Matt get your megrez back on and live the easy life!

[SlipperySquid]

Thanks again all

The set up side is not to much of a problem, I can carry the fully setup rig in and outside (200p was a bit of a struggle but easily doable) it's the faffing that comes afterwards but with the wise words written above I can see the errors in my ways and no matter what I do the honourable HEQ5 just isn't happy with the load it's lugging about!

The main reason for the longer subs Pete is that I am mainly imaging in narrowband at the moment so need the 10+ minute subs for the fainter SII etc.

NEQ6 will be my Christmas present next year and I'll have to do with taking images of tiny galaxies of course there's always Orion on it's merry way! or even a nice mosaic of Andromeda!

Right painting is done...Now I need a cold beer and start stripping the mount down again!

Where's that can of WD40!

Matt.

[swag72]

Sorry to ask a question in this thread Matt, but I've just got to find out - Why WD40 the chrome weight bar?

[SlipperySquid]

Makes it look all shiny Also smells nice and finally when releasing the retaining clutch to let the bar out it should make a whooshing sound, not to dissimilar of that of a Tie fighter in Starwars......A little spray goes a long way!

Matt.

[steppenwolf]

Makes it look all shiny Also smells nice and finally when releasing the retaining clutch to let the bar out it should make a whooshing sound, not to dissimilar of that of a Tie fighter in Starwars......A little spray goes a long way!

Matt.

Couldn't have put it better myself! I have seen these bars go rusty and horrible but with a little WD40, mine at 7 years old is still mint and that's the way it's gonna stay despite the dew that forms on it during those long, cold imaging sessions!

[George]

I've been on the edge of the abyss for over a year and I'm still here Its all part of living in the UK and being an astronomer....the two don't really get on, but on those rare nights you forget about all the strife.

[Whippy]

Why not a change of direction for a while? Buy yourself a webcam or high frame rate cam and a couple of barlows and go for some of our near neighbours with the 200. It's much less hassle than DSO imaging, much quicker and lots less to go wrong. Usually a good nights sleep too!

Tony..

[martin_h]

I'm in the process of selling my ED100 and just sticking to the ED80's. With a large(ish) chip and wide(ish) view I find that even with small targets a crop at 100% gets a reasonable "close up" image with the benefit of the wide view as well.