CCD imagers?

[FLO]

I am dangerously close to starting astro-imaging (EQ6 PRO and Meade SN10).

I instinctively want to use my DSLR (EOS 10D) because its the camera I already own and I am familiar with it. But, I am coming around to the idea of using a laptop and a purpose-made imaging CCD. I will probably cut my teeth on the Moon first, then try some wide-field deep-sky imaging.

So, without re-mortgaging the house, what is a good 'first' camera?

Thanks.

[Jamie]

Just a few for you to mull over.

All very good ccd's at not bad prices (All prices depend on particular dealers, these are for reference only)

ATIK 16ic Monochrome CCD Camera = £359.99

ATK-16 Monochrome CC Camera = £659.99

Starlight Xpress MX716 CCD Camera = £799.99

Starlight Xpress MX516 Parallel Port CCD Camera = £549.99

[FLO]

Thanks Jamie, I'll start googling

[GazOC]

Starlight Xpress MX716 CCD Camera = £799.99

Starlight Xpress MX516 Parallel Port CCD Camera = £549.99

Jamie, the Starlight cameras use the same chip as the Meade DSI and DSI II (I think... ), but they are much dearer. Any idea why?

[Jamie]

Must be the cooling system ????

[GazOC]

Ah, that'll be it!!

[russ]

How about a Canon 10D

hmm i don't understand why you are reluctant to use the 10D???? You only need to put £25 in (remote, T-adapter and 2" nosepiece) and you are away. Plus the large chip on the Canon is very forgiving of tracking errors. The EQ6 Pro will allow for upto 2mins unguided exposures, although 60-90secs is a better bet. No laptop really needed, very little setup time needed. Only downside will be red response for Ha dominant targets. But if you choose your targets wisely you'll get some stonking images. Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, not my style, but my Leo triplet image was more than a match for the images Rog and Martin got with their dedicated astro imagers. In a nutshell you can cut your teeth now, nothing stopping you.

Russ

[Kai]

Steve

IF my Atik comes back from Portugal repaired before Sgl3 then you can have a go with it in wales if you want.

[CELESCOPE]

Starlight xpress,and Atik both very good , the Atik being cheaper, knowing what i know now, i would start at a sensible level, that way the outlay is done , both SXVH9Fand the ATIK16HR USE THE SAME CHIP the difference being the housing . but the Atik is £600 cheaper and a very good camera,

Rog

[MartinB]

As an SXV H9 owner I agree with Rog that the Atik 16 HR is better value. The main advantage of the H9 is that it is USB 2 but this isn't worth £600! The H9 is better for fastar and can use the SXV adaptive optics. It integrates very well with the SXV guidehead. The Atik 16HR is a great buy.

Rus I am struggling to believe that an SLR can match a CCD such as the Atik 16HR on a target like the leo triplet assuming similar technique and exposure time. I have seen some very good SLR images (some of them yours!) but they never seem able to achieve the signal to noise ratio of a cooled CCD. It would be interesting to do a side by side comparison!

CCDs are silly money and useless for anything other than astroimaging. Mass production savings means you get loads more camera for you money with an SLR but for DSOs CCDs rule the roost imho

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

Before this gets into a "which is best - CCD or DSLR" I'd like to add some of my thoughts, having tried DSLR and CCD imageing.

The DSLR is a massively useful tool for astro imaging. It does one-shot colour, its stand-alone, its versatile (accounts department friendly) and its very simple to use. It is a pain to focus.

The mono CCD is a specialised instrument, being more sensitive than a DSLR as there's no Bayer colour filter, it gets (mono) images quicker than a DSLR. It can be used for Ha or other narrowband images without fear of light pollution. It can do RGB with the appropriate filters.

Processing with either is a pain, but you get postable images with either just as quick.

Steve, as you have the Canon, nail it to the 'scope and see what comes out. It won't cost the earth (until you're hooked into imaging) and you will surprise yourself.

DSLRs are to CCDs what cars are to motorbikes, you might like either, both or neither, it's your choice.

Captain Chaos (will add more after work if necessary)

[FLO]

Thanks chaps,

I will be using my DSLR, its just that I am also tempted by the versatility of a mono CCD imager.

Canon's large CMOS sensor is attractive and I am keen to experiment with dark-frame subtraction as a means of removing amp-glow. I also suspect that the Bayer-pattern RGB filters are not as much a problem as people say; the software algorithm includes information from all the sensors (they rarely show a zero signal) when determining colour.

I like the idea of a mono CCD imager because it enables the user to precisely control the colour being imaged, and is more sensitive. At least that's my understanding.

I have also just bought myself a copy of AstroArt V4 (after a demonstration by someone at the NLO) and am looking forward to playing with it 8)

[CELESCOPE]

And u dont have to do dark frames either if you dont want to Steve

[FLO]

But you do need a laptop

I hear that a laptop is a good idea even when using a DSLR, for the focusing.

IF my Atik comes back from Portugal repaired before Sgl3 then you can have a go with it in wales if you want.

Thanks Steve, I think I'll take you up on that

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

A laptop is a great preview screen substitute to check focus at full image size. Sure beats trying to look at the preview screen whan using a Frac. pointed straight up.

You can sometimes use the TV output from DSLRs to a portable TV, or so I've heard, the LCD ones are possibly good for that.

Captain Chaos

[Kai]

You can sometimes use the TV output from DSLRs to a portable TV, or so I've heard, the LCD ones are possibly good for that.

Captain Chaos

Thats got me thinking CC , i have a small 7 inch lcd tv that i use for camping,i might have a got with that to see if i can get a decent preview.

[russ]

What I said earlier wasn't a "DSLR is better than CCD" statement. No fool on this planet would argue that. Nothing I can do could match what Martin & Rog do. But on some DSO objects (mainly galaxies and open clusters) the DSLR can really close the gap on those Atiks and Starlights. It gets shot to pieces on most other DSO's. But there's plenty up there to get you started and the 10D is very good starting point.

Plus you have the option to bolt the 10D direct to the EQ6 with no scope and get some drop dead gorgeous widefields with only the roughtest of polar alignments.

Focus is a pain but you only have to do it the once and if you are sensible you'll do it on a bright star, perhaps one of the GOTO alingment stars. From then on the camera stays untouched for the rest of the night. The EQ6 GOTO is capable of placing the object dead centre on the chip everytime.

I used the laptop twice with the DSLR, decided it defeated one of the main reasons for using the DSLR.......ease of use! Buy one of the Canon programmable remotes and you really are on easy street. DSO imaging doesn't come any easier.

Then move onto the proper DSO imagers that Martin/Rog use but still keep the DSLR handy for those widefields.

Russ

[MartinB]

Hmm... food for thought indeed Rus! Those Canon 350Ds seem to be coming down in price all the time. A lot of camera for the money.

[Kai]

But you do need a laptop

I hear that a laptop is a good idea even when using a DSLR, for the focusing.

IF my Atik comes back from Portugal repaired before Sgl3 then you can have a go with it in wales if you want.

Thanks Steve, I think I'll take you up on that

Looks like you are on for Sgl Steve as my camera should be back soon

[FLO]

[GazOC]

Are you any further along with this Steve? I'm thinking of giving it a bash this summer as well (mind you, I've said that for the last 5 summers),

[FLO]

I'm going to start with a DSLR but hope to quickly move on to a CCD imager as I want to play with filters 8)

Still pondering which camera to use... Have you got your eye on a particular model?

[GazOC]

I've got a DSI in the kitchen drawer.... I figured that, the ED100 and a focal reducer will get me started. I've also just got a good deal (£70) on a 3.3 SCT reducer for the future.

[Kai]

Atiks Back :wav:

Clear blue skies at the moment so i am going to have a bash tonight

[FLO]

Gaz, I was considering the DSI, it seems an affordable way to get started and I have seen some good images.

Congrats Kai