Eyepieces for William Optics Zenithstar 66ED (Petzval)

[LDUNN1]

I'm seeking some advice of eyepieces, barlows & diagonals.

....I've just picked up a WO ZS 66ED (Petzval) 2nd hand (it was too cheap to not buy).

Consider it as my first 'scope (I have a SW 80T that I have only used for guiding duties to guide my DSLR & long camera lens).

So I only have the rather cheap accessories that came with the Sw 80T to try the WO ZS 66ED with......& even I, a newbie, can tell that this 'scope could do with much better accessories.

So if anyone has experience with this scope, I wonder if you can advise on what accessories you have been using with it - particularly interested in eyepieces as I don't have anything of significant quality yet & am looking to slowly build up a few quality pieces.

Anyone tried an Ethos 3.7mm in a WO ZS 66 (or similar) ;-) ???? - it might sound crazy, but I'd be interested on hearing if you have (or any other good EP/barlow/diagonal for this scope).

thanks in advance.....

[russ]

I used only two eyepieces regularly with my 66 Petzval:

William Optics UWAN 7mm and 16mm

Just by chance these were the eyepieces i had at the time, not because i was trying to make it a full WO setup. Also had a WO Dielectric Diagonal

The eyepieces gave:

16mm - 3.28deg true field (huge) and 25x

7mm - 1.43deg true field (still big) and 57x

My particular 66 didn't take magnification well. I did try a 4mm TMB Planetary for 100x and a barlow with the 7mm UWAN for 114x but neither yielded a satisfactory view. Around the 80x mark seemed to be its max.

Wonderful low power, widefield scope from a dark site.

Be interesting to hear how you think the ST80 and WO66 compare optically.

[NickK]

I think you'll be surprised by the Hyperions to be honest. They also have a high resale price if you wish to upgrade.

I'm considering a few replacement Pentax EPs sometime before winter.

[LDUNN1]

Gents, thanks for the feedback so far - exactly what I was seeking!

I've been looking at the Hyperions - the flexibility of them seems very attractive & they seem to be well regarded. So thanks for that confirmation Nick.

Russ, note you are 'Nr Soton' Based - I'm in Southampton too! Very interested in your observations on the Mag that this scope can take......that may have been quite a 'saver' for me as I was looking getting something for even greater mag initially.

I've also read a review online that suggested the Nagler zoom 3-6mm was ideal for this 'grab & go'......but then I read rave reviews about the wide vistas through the Ethos......in an ideal world I think I'd buy a hyperion, the nagler zoom & one or two Ethos......but I note that those tele vue's are not exactly 'affordably priced' ;-) ........but I am also mindful of this being the start of my eyepiece collection & at somepoint down the line, I'll probably be adding a much bigger & better scope to the WO ZS66 - I wasn't planning or considering a small refractor, but it just 'popped up' at the right price & I thought it would get me going.

I have not tried a back-2-back between the WO ZS66 vs the SW ST80 yet - I've only had the two for just over a week & have litterally only used the ST80 for a few mins for visual......& to be honest, I don't feel qualified to make the judgement being so new - I don't really know what flaws to look out for.

Both 'scopes have surprised me though - firstly the SW ST80 seemed way better than its under £100 price tag would suggest, but the multitude of accessories that come with it seem 'cheap & nasty' unlike the rest of the 'scope which is no Rolls Royce, but does feel much better than its price would suggest.

As many buy the SW ST80 for guiding duties, I believe SW should consider selling it without the barlow, diagonal, two eyepices, finder scope & finder scope holder & maybe from the price another £10-20 or so.

When I did a few mins viewing through the ST80, I was amazed on how good it seemed - to the point that anyone getting into this interest, I'd suggest they get something like this instead of binos - if they progress, then they can still use this as either a 'grab n go' OR a guide scope, rather than have to consider selling it on.......unless of course they also have a separate need/want of binos for daytime use.

The WO however, feels in another class quality wise & in the short go I had with it (using poor quality accessories) I was surprised that I got a recognisable view of saturn - much greater mag than my binos offer, but I really got the feeling that it wanted better quality accessories to make the most of it - hence this post.

I'll try & do a back-2-back when I am not trying to image & will come back & offer further observations.....

thanks for responding so fast......still be glad to hear from anyone else too though with their comments & observations on eyepieces for such a small refractor....

[russ]

Just noticed, these are your first posts on the forum:

Welcome to SGL

In Soton......hmm I'll send you a PM regarding your location, have some info that may interest you See bottom of my sig

[LDUNN1]

......Russ, after reading your post & posting my initial response, I went away & considered what I was using in the way of mag when I had my 'surprising' view of Saturn:-

10mm (40x with this scope I think) plus a 2x Barlow.......would put it smack bang on what you believe it the max optimal for your 'scope........just thought this might be of interest to know.

An Ethos 3.7mm would give 104x mag which from your experince maybe pushing it over the edge mag wise.....next rung down in the Ethos range is a 6mm for 67x mag.

My (novice) thinking behind pushing the boat out with the Ethos, is that with its very wide AFOV it would be easier to find the subject of interest at high magnifications - kind of like two eyepieces in one, hi power, yet wide-ish view for finding things - & may to a certain degree negate the need for a lower power eyepiece (knowing that if I am still struggling that I can pop in one of my cheapo's just to use to help in the finding)

I was also thinking that by going for an eyepiece that gave high power, I could avoid the use (& extra expense) of a barlow - I'm assuming barlows will have some kind of negative impact on image quality.

I was also calculating a max magnification for this scope using the rule of thumb of 50x per inch would put the usable max mag at about x130 & the 3.7mm would be a fair bit short of that at x104 - I was thinking it might make a good partner & give me a quality EP for any future scope too.

No one should get me wrong here though, I was not counting divisions in the rings or cloud belts ;-) but it was recognisable as Saturn.

[LDUNN1]

......we crossed over posts.....

Thx for the welcome......I've been lurking on SGL for some months now - lots of great help & advice. This site was instrumental in me buying an nEQ6 from FLO in feb/mar (never played with an equatorial mount in the past, let alone own one!) - I could see FLO supporting this site both through some form of sponsorship & also what seems like good advice to others. But I am an active poster elsewhere so have not really had time to post here too, until now.

I will look out for your PM - thx.

[russ]

I wouldn't worry too much about the barlow, a good one will allow the eyepiece to work to almost it's full potential. The 3.7mm Ethos is very expensive, not sure you would want to tie up so much capital in a rarely used eyepiece. It would also mean limiting the choice of your larger scope to a shortish focal length that would work with the 3.7mm.

[NickK]

I prefer to look at magnification rather than ep fl. For example for me (scope 675mm fl):

675/3.5 = 192x for planetary

675/13 = 52x general purpose (dso hunting)

675/31 = 21x for big widefield

A pentax 2.5mm would give me 270x for some great lunar/planet viewing in good conditions!

In the end you'll probably find the 66mm aperture limits the magnification and resolving ability.

[John]

The Ethe are amazing eyepieces but are priced to match. An Ethos 3.7SX would look hilarious in the diagonal of a WO 66 - the eyepiece is almost bigger than the scope

The views would be pretty good though

[russ]

How about the 8mm Ethos and a nice TV barlow with it. Thinking ahead to when you add another scope, the 8mm will work nicely with scopes upto 1600mm focal length. And longer focal length scopes on nights of good seeing.

If it was me with the 66, i would be looking for a good quality medium to low power eyepiece that would make full use of the widefield the 66 is capable off. You could spend a modest sum on the high power eyepiece and get excellent results. Something like the Baader Genuine Ortho or a William Optics SPL if you don't fancy the Ortho.

[Rossco72]

Given the use of the scope and it's best talents, I would consider a Zoom EP.

The Baader Zoom or either of the Pentax Zooms would be great quality for a long time and give you a fair amount of usable magnifications in your scope.

Cheers

[Moonshane]

I am considering in due course a 72mm Megrez or similar so in the same ball park as the 66. For my purposes, although it's always nice to see a small planetary disc and perhaps the moon too, I would be buying this scope as a replacement for a pair of 15x70 bins which after the initial flush of enthusiasm I never got on with. Therefore I'd be looking for wide field images and portability as it would be my holiday scope.

Due to this I would go with the following:

1.25" good quality (why not a WO) diagonal

24mm Panoptic 16x 4mm exit pupil and 3.9 degree field

13mm Nagler 30x 2.1mm EP 2.5 degree field

5mm Nagler 80x 0.83 EP 1 degree field

I'd probably get the 5mm last but any of these eyepieces in their own right will be fantastic in this scope and in any scope you can buy.

The cost of the first two is a bit less than the cost of a 3.7mm Ethos and you'd need about another £150 to get the 5mm. If you have more patience and bought used you could save even more.

My name's Shane and I'm a Televue addict.

[russ]

Given the use of the scope and it's best talents, I would consider a Zoom EP.

The Baader Zoom or either of the Pentax Zooms would be great quality for a long time and give you a fair amount of usable magnifications in your scope.

Cheers

A good quality zoom......that's what i would do And that Pentax looks amazing!

[LDUNN1]

WOW - great responses guys!!! Thank you!

Nick, I was thinking the 3.7mm for planetery type use too.....but also mindful of the max mag 50x per inch of diameter rule of thumb......but maybe rus is right, something around 8mm giving 50x mag might be 'safer'.......either way, John's right, an Ethos on a WO ZE 66ED will have great comic value ;-) ......most people stick an eyepiece on the end of their 'scopes, I'd be sticking a scope to the end of an eyepiece ;0

Russ, I now strongly suspect that any potential future scope I get will be a refractor, so the longest focal length I'm probably going to be looking at would be around 1200mm. This is because I am more interested in the photography side - coming into this new interest to me from a photographic background.......the little WO ZS 66ED is just to give me something to use while the exposures are ticking away, but should I end up using any future 'imaging refractor' purchase for visual instead of imaging - say if there was broken cloud, then a 3.7mm EP on a 'scope in the 950-1200 FL range may not be so limited???

[LDUNN1]

.....& still they come in!!

.....Yeap, the Nagler 3-6mm zoom was on the short list too - but thanks Stuart for the heads up on the Pentax zoom too - I have not heard about that - & it sounds interesting seeing Russ's response too.......I'm off to Google it now!!! ;-)

Shane - great post too thx. I have 15x70 binos too, which I am very happy with, so I guess I was thinking of these being the widefield viewers & the WO ZS 66ED being the longer option.......& I agree with the observation that the Ethos is nto really in keeping with the 'grab & go' nature of the 66 & those zooms are maybe better suited to it........lots to consider here, & none of it cheap, so I want to get this 'right'.

I have been looking at the WO diagonals too - thinking of the 2" option around just over the £100 mark - not sure of the benefit of going to the over £200 Quartz version from what I've read so far. I also think I've read that this middle option in teh WO diagonal family has the SCT adapter option which screws onto the ZS 66ED - don't think the £65 WO diag has this option & not sure about the more expensive Quartz.

Also, if I were to go with a med power EP, what would be the best options for a quality barlow - if the barlow does not degrade image quality too much.

So glad I posted & got everyone's views on the options...... thank you all.

[Rossco72]

You can screw on the SCT 6.3 reducers to the back of the 66's to make them really fast and wide for imaging. But you can only use a smaller chip, certainly no bigger than say 15-16mm square which does give you a fair amount to play with....

The Pentax XW 8-24 is fabulous but pricey, the Baader Hyperion Zoom is maybe 80% or more of the quality for about 40% of the cost

[Moonshane]

.....& still they come in!!

.....Yeap, the Nagler 3-6mm zoom was on the short list too - but thanks Stuart for the heads up on the Pentax zoom too - I have not heard about that - & it sounds interesting seeing Russ's response too.......I'm off to Google it now!!! ;-)

Shane - great post too thx. I have 15x70 binos too, which I am very happy with, so I guess I was thinking of these being the widefield viewers & the WO ZS 66ED being the longer option.......& I agree with the observation that the Ethos is nto really in keeping with the 'grab & go' nature of the 66 & those zooms are maybe better suited to it........lots to consider here, & none of it cheap, so I want to get this 'right'.

I have been looking at the WO diagonals too - thinking of the 2" option around just over the £100 mark - not sure of the benefit of going to the over £200 Quartz version from what I've read so far. I also think I've read that this middle option in teh WO diagonal family has the SCT adapter option which screws onto the ZS 66ED - don't think the £65 WO diag has this option & not sure about the more expensive Quartz.

Also, if I were to go with a med power EP, what would be the best options for a quality barlow - if the barlow does not degrade image quality too much.

So glad I posted & got everyone's views on the options...... thank you all.

you'll probably regret getting everyone's views in the end as your head will be spinning!

on the diagonal front, I'd consider why you would go for a 2" diagonal as you seem to want this for higher powered viewing which would negate the need to use 2" eyepieces? That said, a good 2" diagonal can of course be used in other scopes where 2" eyepieces would be an advantage. based only on comments of others (very experienced guys) I don't feel there's any visual difference between the standard dielectric WO diagonal and the more expensive ones so I'd not bother with the others personally.

a good barlow like the Televue 2x would be a great buy and would not degreade the image (other than via magnification making an image generally a bit darker). My only concern would be the scope will end up like a V shape if you have a barlow and an eyepiece in it (possibly anyway) with the scope as long as the eyepiece combo. personally I prefer a more low profile affair at the eyepiece end.

A good way to buy and try with little risk, is the used market. if you buy off the used section on here (when this is visible to you) or from well know people off Astro Buy & Sell, you can get some good bargains and try an eyepiece then sell it for about the same if you don't get on with it.

[LDUNN1]

Stuart, I have not really bought the ZS66 for imaging, BUT I may have a go with it, just to satisfy my curiosity.......My imagining set up currently is a Canon 5D2 (large 24x36mm sensor), but I have ONLY been using it with long camera prime lenses so far (I have yet to decide / afford a 'proper' imaging scope - that's a whole differnet story!) - I've only been doing this since March time mind. Thx for the comments on the reducer - if that does not cover my sensor, it is not going to be much use to me.

Shane, when you know so little about something (as I do) everyone else's comments & view are the only thing you have & are helpful!!!! ;-)

This is the WO diag that I am contemplating:-

First Light Optics - William Optics 2" Dielectric Diagonal with SCT Adaptor

......you have also backed up what i've read elsewhere - that there is little to be gained going further.

My logic for going 2", was that as I am effectively starting out from scratch (with the exception of the cheap 'freebie' accessories I've ended up with) that I'd try & 'standardise' all my back-end accessories to 2" - I have a camera adapter that works with the 2" system already & I'm also safeguarding myself for any potential future larger scope purchase. This way I wont have the faff of adapters.....plus if I want to hang my DSLR off the back of something, I believe the 2" format offers greater stability / security.

.......I agree with your comment reference the 'ugly' equal sided 'V' that this little monster might end up looking like - it may not look elegant, but (hopefully) it will be dark ;-)

.......it seems I maybe mis-guided in my fears on use of barlows significantly impacting the image, so maybe going for the barlow & a lower mag EP might be a better route.

.......I'm an avid fan of the 2nd hand mkt already - it is how I ended up in this EP dilemma to start with ;-) - but thx for the heads up!!

I've read someone else comment on here:

" I didn't want to "rise through the quality ranks" so went for the best option first - saves money in the long run."

.......I think I share the same mindset - I am not expecting to get rid of the ZS 66ED when I get something bigger, I expect they will complement each other, & these accessories are going to be treated the same way, I always try to research lots, buy correct once. I think I may take the ZS66 along to a few viewing sessions & see if anyone has the EP's mentioned already that I could quickly try out. I've viewed through a few others 'scopes over the past month, but not been thinking about EP's specifically so have not thought to ask what I was looking through (you always ask what the 'scope is mind, as a beginner!) - but the thing that is sticking in my mind is that some of the EP's have given fantastic views - really comfortable to use - I have a cheap EP that is really uncomfortable - you move a fraction & it blacks out all over the place - you seem to have to stay in the perfect 'sweet spot' to see the whole frame & this 'sweet spot' tolerance is very low - I don't fully understand why this is, but I know I don't like it! I think I may have already looked through an Ethos & not realised what I was looking through, but it was like looking into a pond - it was wonderful to view - your eye was darting about all over the field of view seeing stuff, rather than straining to see something at the end of a drinking straw.......I'm guessing what I am experiencing is the AFoV & the difference between very wide & very narrow......

[Moonshane]

not sure where you are but if NW England you can come over and try my eyepieces anytime.

your whole logic seems sound to me!

[LDUNN1]

Thanks for the offer Shane - sadly I live near Russ......no offence intended on that comment Russ! ;-) .....down in Southampton, so can't take you up on your kind offer.

However, I appreciate your confirmation on my logic being sound......I seem to be doing most things backwards to many - but the choices I've made have seemed right to me at the time - but being a beginner you are never quite sure if the direction you are going is 'sensible' or not.

.......ie I before getting this nice little WO 'beginners scope' & breaking myself in gently, I bought an nEQ6, EQmod & have hooked it up & now control it exclusively from a laptop, have added a dual saddle with guidescope one side & DSLR with long camera lens the other & have been attempting 'imaging' - I'm way from perfect yet, but am getting results & improving each time.

......my 'logic' being that I came into this with a long photographic interest & it was that, that put me on this journey. I realised that on a static photo tripod I was limited to bright objects only for short expsoures to limit star streaking. So the obvious solution to me was a decent tracking mount - not a telescope to start with. Then to build up the complexity each time out as soon as each stages hurdles had been cleared. At first it was just learning & setting up an equatorial mount for the first time, then learning the goto handset, then interfacing the laptop & controlling the mount with planetarium software, then adding a guidescope to produce a closed loop feedback system for vastly superior tracking & even longer exposure times. Having just cracked that one in the past week, I realise that it has freed up time during a session to allow me time to visually observe while the exposures are automatically controlled & taken.......there is a logic there, but I bet most start off on the visual then dip their toes into imaging what they are seeing......;-)

...but back to the EP's - I might be meeting up with Russ & his group soon, so may get to try a few EP's out then - but it really has helped getting some ideas of what to consider first.

.....think I may bite the bullet on the WO diagonal though - it is increasingly seeming like a 'no brainer' & if I am to try other peoples EP's, it makes sense that they are not held back with a real cheap diagonal......not to mention the risk to other peoples EP's from a cheap diagonal!

[Moonshane]

sorry missed your location - I realise now you have said it that you mentioned this previously.

good luck and let us know how you get on with your purchases!

[LDUNN1]

No problem on the location - my fault for not filling in my profile fully (now done the location bit).

......I certainly will come back & add to this thread when I've got an EP or two.....it may be some weeks off mind, as I may take a "wait and try & try" approach......I think before splashing out on something like the Ethos it would be wise to confirm that:-

1) That it is the Ethos I've looked through elsewhere that i recall giving an amazing view, &

2) What sort of Magnification I'd find most useful/helpful to start with......I'm now a little nervous that I maybe overcooking things if I went for the 3.7mm & 104x mag

......but I'll let you all know what happens.....

[Mark at Beaufort]

Welcome to SGL LDUUN1. I have the William Optics SD66 not the Petzval design.

Before buying a 2" diagonal you need to be certain that your EPs can reach focus. I bought a WO adapter so that I could use my TeleVue 2" diagonal and the 26mm Nagler unfortunately there was not enough inward travel to reach focus. A SCT 2" diagonal might work but its a risk unless you can try one out.

If I was in your position I would purchase a quality 1.25" Dielectric diagonal and the Hyperion 8-24 zoom.

I have the William Optics 1.25" dielectric and use the Hyperion Zoom especially on solar viewing with a white light filter. I also use the SD66 on my dual alt/az mount with either the 4" frac or 6" Newt on the other side. The quality of the view through the SD66 and the zoom is very good.

Just a few extra thoughts for you to consider.

Regards

Mark

[russ]

Someone in SCAG has a MkIII Baader Zoom, i'm sure they won't mind you trying it in the scope. And i have the dielectric diagonal you can try with it. Weather permitting you could try out a few options next weekend before deciding.