SuburbanMak

I have a pair of Celestron 10x50 Nature DX ED and can un-reservedly recommend them.

This weekend I will mostly be stripping, blacking, flocking, polishing, greasing, fettling & re-mounting.... (no sniggering at the back.)

Looking to get the best out of a SW127 Mak - the forecast is of course unbroken cloud...

I had in fact slightly mis-read your post @ScouseSpaceCadet my apologies, thought you were confusing the 102 Skymax with the scope recommended to the OP, but of course you weren't! @DJT1984 Getting back into astronomy in lockdown I spent many nights last summer lying on a sun lounger in the garden with a pair of 10x50s & the basic SkySafari app on my phone - tons of amazing stuff to see , I signed up to this newsletter that gives a great monthly guide to the best places to point your bins! https://binocularsky.com/newsletter/BinoSkyNL.pdf

And so it begins :)) have fun!

@ScouseSpaceCadet isn’t the StarTravel 102 an f4.9 wide field refractor not a Mak? if so it would be perfect https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-102t-ota.html

Hi Dan and welcome to the site! I am a recent acquirer of the Skywatcher AZ GTi mount and, after a bit of perseverance (and some sagely advice from SGL-ers!) have got the goto working beautifully. Thought you might find my experience of getting started with this type of mount useful. I live in a suburban area - light pollution generally is about what you’d expect (about 5 on the Bortle scale where 1 is pristine dark, 8 is inner city whiteout) but worse in my garden. As such portability is essential for me - I stick it all in a rucksack and trudge across the local park to get an open view of the sky and away from security lights etc. This also means that a Dobsonian isn’t really an option for me, so I have 2 ‘scopes both Skywatcher - a 127 Mak and a recently eBay purchased ST80 short tube refractor, the little brother of the one you’ve already been recommended. The refractor has a wide field which means that coupled with a low power eyepiece it’s great for finding stuff easily and familiarising myself with an object’s location & surroundings. It also gives lovely crisp wide field starscapes. The 102 you’ve been recommended would do all this + catch a bit more light & handle a bit more magnification. I can revisit objects with higher power using the Mak another time and pile on the magnification. The Mak is amazing on the moon, tighter star clusters, double stars and I am eagerly awaiting summer when I can take myself off to Jupiter & Saturn with it & hunt down globular clusters. The trade off is narrow field of view but I haven’t found that overly frustrating just a bit trickier to get things in the eyepiece. Either scope sits well on the AZ GTi mount & it’s associated tripod is a good trade off between weight/portability and stability. It’s an easy carry on that 10 minute walk to the park. Once pointing at an open sky the SynScan based GoTo system is a doddle. An important advantage is that the mount is wireless - you connect your phone via Wi-fi then run the whole thing off a pretty self-explanatory app. This has the great advantage that the mount takes all the co-ordinate time & date details straight off your phone making for a quicker and human-error free setup. To align you point the ‘scope North & Level then pick 2 stars from a list - generally speaking from the brightest and most obvious stars visible. It starts to move and gives you a countdown in terms of degrees left to target. Once it’s finished you use the arrow keys on the app to put the star in the centre of the eyepiece - what the instructions don’t accentuate is that this first slew is often miles off target - that’s ok but it does mean you should budget for a decent finder scope &/or reflex finder like a Telrad or Rigel (think WW2 gunsight...). My problems with GoTo came when trying to align from a garden with quite restricted view - a lot of the alignment stars weren’t visible due to trees & houses so I’d be picking from a way down the app-suggested list resulting in less accuracy & occasionally eccentric performance. Also was advised to choose stars that have a reasonable separation both in terms of direction and azimuth. If you’re able to see the whole sky or most of it, this doesn’t matter as the top 2 suggested by the app will have factored this in. Also don’t be afraid to realign if you want to look at a whole bunch of targets at the opposite end of the sky from where you started, @ScouseSpaceCadet advised dividing the session into two and doing a North facing alignment and look at the stuff in that section then realign on more southerly stars and cover that section - wise words... Finding stuff for me has been a combination of GoTo & star hopping - the Telrad is my friend (for the narrow field Mak) & I’ve learned to enjoy the whole process! Personally I think your friend’s suggestion is spot on & if you can find one in stock crack on - whether this or another type of scope I wouldn’t agonise too much, if you like it sooner or later you are going to buy another anyway Final point - whatever you choose this forum is great, for advice, ideas, support, inspiration and general themed banter - enjoy your shopping & here’s to clear skies!

Thank you - looking forward to viewing M13 across the spring & summer. For me globulars are fascinating objects - of the galaxy but outside it &, although relatively local ,I do find it fires the imagination to think that the light I am viewing started it’s journey 22,000 years ago, man would have been recognisable as the same species as today but sparsely distributed hunter gatherers, before the agricultural revolution and anything like recorded history. Bet the skies were dark back then! Maybe I’ve just been staring down the eyepiece too long...

Thank you & good luck with the imaging - I was thinking double stars might be a good way into it but only have Alt Az at the moment. Can I ask what mount you are using?

Absolutely second this opinion - as a Dad of teenagers I can say that anything phone controlled is going to hold their attention! This can be run from any android or iPhone/iPad and what’s more it works. A short tube refractor like this has a number of advantages - especially when teamed with an easy GoTo mount. The main one being that you can see a wider section of sky to begin with so it’s easier to find things which is a big issue when starting to use a telescope - failure can be very off putting. Also portability means that this could go on camping trips etc. I use mine with a zoom eyepiece so you can locate an object at its widest session following a GoTo move then pile on magnification to get the best view. The set-up described here would be very capable - lucky children! Whatever you end up with, getting them out under clear skies will be a great thing to do for them.

Follow up - have got out with the ST80 twice in the last few days - especially when the session is short or motivation to set up low it's a great option. Have been really impressed with its optical capability, here are notes from those sessions which given the full moon have focussed on double stars - but also got a lovely unexpected view of M13! Am finding that the ST80 is great for figuring out where stuff is, then I can revisit later with the Mak for a higher power view. Took it out on the AZ GTi and its a great pairing, the scope's light weight seemed to tax the mount less than the 127 Mak + finders and that, coupled with the wider field (& some wise alignment tips from @ScouseSpaceCadet, thank you sir), meant that goto performed beautifully. Can see its only a matter of time (and money) before mounting them side by side... anyhoo, for what its worth here are some slightly random observing notes from my first real sessions with this amazing value piece of kit... 25.2 - 8-9.30pm ST80, BH Zoom, Steady seeing. 97% moon transparency: occasional high-level milkiness. N. Aligned Sirius Aldebaran Goto Mars, accurate - nice gibbous disc but tiny. Goto Uranus - probably, faint, greenish, maybe - not a point, not a disc. M45 - bit disappointed then realised I still had the Barlow on from Mars/Uranus - gorgeous view without, fantasised I might be seeing nebulosity... M42 - got stuck here for a while, wasn’t in the plan but crisp trapezium & loved the wide field. Mintaka - double-ish, very wide. Sigma Orionis - fantastic system. Double + a cluster. CM145/H3945 - Winter Albireo a bit moon/LP washed but clear orange- blue colour contrast. Felt good to find using RDF & star map. Sirius - no split. Beta Monoceros clean split triple at 50x - ST80 looks like a very good 96 quid Almach - lovely view at 12mm (33x). Orange primary, white close secondary. M40 - I think, check the chart. Bit non-descript. Eta Cassiopeia - split-ish, one for more mag/app. Went back to the night’s highlights: M42 - Sigma Orionis - CM145. Very satisfying hour and a half & home in time to be sociable. ST80 is going to get a lot of use! Crisp wide fields, scanning slowly up the sword of Orion from M42 to Sigma Orionis stunning. 27/2 00:30 - 02:30 . ST80, Baader Zoom 8-24mm, moon if anything more dominant than earlier. Trudged back out to the park for second session, late/early with an ST80 quick set-up. Skyscape radically changed from earlier evening session - lots of constellations in the “wrong” place. ETA Cassiopeia. Yellow Orange spikes, clean white 2nd. Lovely. Fruitless searching in Cass for Sigma & Struve 173 . Got a bit lost. Retreated to Mirphac. Hopped to Double Cluster - lovely in wide view. Fantastic frame at 14mm (28x) , cheered me up. Castor - split but only at 50x. Tried for Algieba but lost in the moonlight, looked at Regulus against backwash of moon. Thought about jacking it in, cold, moon obliterating Leo, Cancer & then some, got a bit aimless - figured may as well complete a 360 by star hopping. Back to Arcturus then Vega. Checked Safari & confirmed Hercules keystone. Orientation very unfamiliar compared to summer! Brainwave: Hit Goto on M13 - perfect! A fuzzy at last despite the moon & a first for me, wanted to see M13 for ages. Occupied more space in keystone than I’d expected. Got the Barlow out and looked at all mags - thought I saw the odd hint of a star/twinkle mid lower left with averted vision. Best view though at about 40x - nice glow and framed by keystone stars. This is going to be fantastic in the Mak. Looked for a long time! Spent a bit of time orienting naked eye between Vega & Arcturus so I can locate easily again. Had a punt at M57 the ring nebula but no chance, all moon washed + now 2.30 am, getting cold & tired. Finished night, appropriately , on Alberio - stunning pair, gold & green/blue both quite bright. Wrapped up warm and looked for a long while. Walked home cold & happy through friendly, silent moonlit streets to a big Laphroaig. Amazing couple of evenings.

So I set out with a varied target list, based around coloured doubles, a couple of solar system ideas & lots of recommendations from fine SGL-ers. Still have a few to chase down but three good sessions since Thursday, random notes below.... 25.2 - 8-9.30pm ST80, BH Zoom, Steady seeing. 97% moon transparency: occasional high milkiness. N. Aligned Sirius Aldebaran Goto Mars, accurate - nice gibbous disc but tiny. Goto Uranus - probably, faint, greenish, maybe - not a point, not a disc. M45 - bit disappointed then realised I still had the Barlow on from Mars/Uranus - gorgeous view without, fantasised I might be seeing nebulosity... M42 - got stuck here for a while, wasn’t in the plan but crisp trapezium & loved the wide field. Mintaka - double-ish, very wide. Sigma Orionis - fantastic system. Double + a cluster. CM145/H3945 - Winter Albireo a bit moon/LP washed but clear orange- blue colour contrast. Felt good to find using RDF & star map. Sirius - no split. Beta Monoceros clean split triple at 50x - ST80 looks like a very good 96 quid Almach - lovely view at 12mm (33x). Orange primary, white close secondary. M40 - I think, check the chart. Bit non-descript. Eta Cassiopeia - split-ish, one for more mag/app. Went back to the night’s highlights: M42 - Sigma Orionis - CM145. Very satisfying hour and a half & home in time to be sociable. ST80 is going to get a lot of use! Crisp wide fields, scanning slowly up the sword of Orion from M42 to Sigma Orionis stunning. 26.2 - 20:00 - 21:30Back out with the Mak 127 -Baader Zoom 24-8mm, & occasional 2.25 Barlow. Moon 100% Seeing steady at the zenith, less so below 30 degrees. Transparency - patchy, the curse of the river valley (bring on the end of lockdown!) N. Aligned on Sirius & Aldebaran. Rigel - Split! Bright spikes from main - small but distinct white, dim secondary at 7 o’clock (in R/L). 10mm (150x) clear space. Sharper but tiny gap at 15mm. Visible at 24mm. Sirius - a struggle, maybe something at “4.30” - check. Lots of flare, flickering and diffraction patterns. Thought I saw something Rigel-y for a second two or three times - separation & magnitude difference looked about right but so much interference going on can’t confirm. H3945 - lovely view, best colours at 18mm. Deep Orange, light blue. Mintaka - bright white pair not close. Secondary less bright. Sigma orionis - bit of faffing then located from finder. 3 (4?) separated in main group then narrow triangle off to L. Best view at 10mm (150x) Meissa - nice cluster, wasn’t sure which bit the actual double. Pretty view at 20mm (75x) though. Cor Caroli - lovely off-white spaced pair in otherwise moonwashed area. Primary notably brighter. Iota Cancri - classy, gold & white blue. 16mm (94x) best, really lovely. Lingered. Almach, best view 17mm (88x) - beautiful. Real contrast but enough brightness in secondary to show. Diffraction spikes on Orange primary looked very “star-system”. Clear separation but close pair. Home for a warm! 27/2 (later that night...) 00:30 - 02:30 . ST80, Baader Zoom 8-24mm, moon if anything more dominant than earlier. Trudged back out to the park late with a n ST80 quick set-up. Skyscape radically changed from recent evening sessions - lots of constellations in the “wrong” place. ETA Cassiopeia. Yellow Orange spikes, clean white 2nd. Lovely. Fruitless searching in Cass for Sigma & Struve 173 . Got a bit lost. Retreated to Mirphac. Hopped to Double Cluster - lovely in wide view. Fantastic frame at 14mm (28x) , cheered me up. Castor - split but only at 50x. Tried for Algieba but lost in the moonlight, looked at Regulus against backwash of moon. Thought about jacking it in, cold, moon obliterating Leo, Cancer & then some, got a bit aimless - figured may as well complete a 360 by star hopping. Back to Arcturus then Vega. Checked Safari & confirmed Hercules keystone. Orientation very unfamiliar compared to summer! Brainwave: Hit Goto on M13 - perfect! A fuzzy at last despite the moon & a first for me, wanted to see M13 for ages. Occupied more space in keystone than I’d expected. Got the Barlow out and looked at all mags - thought the odd hint of a star/twinkle mid lower left with averted vision. Best view though at about 40x - nice glow and framed by keystone stars. This is going to be fantastic in the Mak. Looked for a long time! Spent a bit of time orienting naked eye between Vega & Arcturus so I can locate easily again. Had a punt at M57 the ring nebula but no chance, all moon washed + now 2.30 am, getting cold & tired. Finished night, appropriately , on Alberio - stunning pair, gold & green/blue both quite bright. Wrapped up warm and looked for a long while. Walked home cold & happy through friendly, silent moonlit streets to a big Laphroaig. Amazing couple of evenings.

This is a great report - I was out last night on some more obvious doubles so there is food for thought here both in terms of targets and the methodical descriptive language you use in your notes - mine are a bit haphazard so far!

Is looking pretty good here Clear skies to you too!

@LeeHore7 thanks for the namecheck - I've only just started with them too so likewise this is a great report & some new targets to aim for! I've seen a couple of stars referred to as the Winter Alberio - think it may be one of those "Venice of the North" type terms that gets used a lot - the main consensus does seem to be H3945/ CM145. This image is fun though from @orion25 Here's a map of where H3945 is - last night I followed the "back leg" of Canis Major straight upward for about the same distance (+maybe 10%) with the RDF and this put it straight in the 24mm eyepiece of an ST80, would certainly have been in the Mak finder (I hope, going out with the heavier gear tonight!).

Also M67 in Cancer S. of the Beehive, a bit fainter but full of red Orange stars and appatently very very old.

I am ending up with a much richer list than I started with and a good spread of difficulty - should be fun. Saw your amazing photo of Uranus and have added that to the list too.

Thank you! These are on the list of things I am yet to find at all, even on a moonless night, so will put them on my aspirational list for this weekend

I will certainly have a look for this, Leo is quite well placed for me by mid evening - also a couple of clear nights on the trot offer the opportunity to track the movement, have never seen an asteroid before! Thanks for the time and effort @Nik271 , much appreciated.

Hi Jim Sounds like you have an enviable location there! Forgive me if this is too basic but thought I would share my experience of coming back to astronomy as an adult, something I'd dabbled in as a kid. As has been said above the constellations will rise in the east and track a curving westward path across the night - so the short answer to your question on which direction is most interesting is "that depends what time and season it is". I've focussed on recognising the constellation patterns starting from the obvious ones I already knew like the Plough, Orion, the W/M sign of Cassiopeia, the V of Taurus and the Pii sign of Perseus in the winter and the cross of Cygnus in the summer & being able to orientate them at different seasons and times of the night. Building outward from that, the easy-to-spot big patterns or asterisms that get talked about (i.e. obvious big shapes that aren't themselves constellations) are really useful for extending that "mental map" to other constellations and getting to know larger areas of sky. I've found the Summer triangle (which includes the constellations Lyra, Aquila and Cygnus) and the "Winter Hexagon" or "Winter-G" that links the brightest stars in Orion, Taurus, Canis Major, Canis Minor, Gemini & Auriga to be really helpful. Other stuff can then be related back to what you know gradually building a kind of imaginary planetarium... An app like Sky Safari is helpful to work out what's going to be rising in a particular direction at a particular time and then you can look up what's interesting to look at in that constellation - as a beginner I've found it helpful and least discouraging to start with the brightest most obvious things in a particular constellation and then look for progressively fainter or harder to spot objects. This means you make less big moves with the telescope and spreads out the success & disappointment more evenly Even without an app, as the interest (obsession) has taken hold I've found myself doing a quick check of constellation positions throughout the month - checking out what's where when I take the dog out for 10 minutes or have a quick look out the window if I get up in the night to see what's about at the unsociable hours! As for direction I read one thing that blew my mind a bit which is that when we look South we are looking toward the centre of our own galaxy. This means that particularly in the summer the densest star-fields of the Milky Way will lie in that direction. Looks like we've some clear skies coming this weekend - enjoy!

I’ve spent a bit of time fruitlessly galaxy hunting, M33 included, however @Nik271 recommended sticking at it with some of the brighter centred types - M81 - so was planning to spend some time hunting that one. Spent a few sessions marvelling at M31 in bins during the autumn but your point makes me realise I haven’t tried in the new scope, I won’t see all of it in the field but will be worth checking out.

Why not try your existing RDF alongside your new finder? RDF to get you in the general area & RACI to zero in. I ended up with the Telrad + 9x50 combination and its revolutionised finding objects that are faint or in "no-mans land" away from an obvious star hop. Certainly some sort of combo is the most powerful in terms for satisfaction per viewing hour

I have been reading about H3945 and will definitely give it a go - reckon it should be about 18 degrees up in the South which is a wee bit tricky from my lockdown observing site but both will be good early evening targets, thank you!

The forecast is looking good-ish for Friday and Saturday in my area (S.England) including a gap in the jetstream, the moon however will be around full. Have started to appreciate doubles and particularly enjoyed Castor, Algieba & B-Monocerotis (amazing!) so am thinking in that direction. Have identified the following targets (and will probably take a peek at brighter clusters too, see how they are holding up in moonlight), but would welcome additional favourite suggestions for moon filled nights.... (127 Mak).

Thank you - some inspiration here for more Mak targets on moon-soaked nights. Beta Mon is incredible, somehow appears 3d and a real "system".