Ships and Stars

My 'first light' post was fairly uninspiring, think I said something profound like 'stars of all magnitudes were visible'. That was the first time I'd ever looked through a reflector and only had a 60mm refractor for a few weeks as a child before it broke. I was amazed that such a simple design using only two mirrors could produce such an image, let alone a sharp one. I didn't know enough objects in the sky at the time to even use a finderscope, think that was March or April last year. Never even tried the goto until August (the infamous midge attack/observing session in the Highlands)...

Thanks Paul! The dob is a SW Stargate 500p with goto. I was only able to get my grubby paws on it because I was working lots of extra hours at the time (last March) and it came up for sale unused as the original owner could not use it due to health. It's transportable for a night out, but requires a small van ideally. In all, it's around 75-80kg I'd guess, but the two heaviest parts are around 32-35kg each. Not too hard to set up if you've done it a few times. I don't have to use a ladder, just an 8-10" step lets me view comfortably at zenith. A great scope.

Thanks Charles, to me the Crab is usually just a relatively faint 'puff' even in a decent sized scope, but was showing quite strong last night. I tried to tease some detail out of it but the windy conditions prevented perfectly still views. I didn't know about the pulsar? I'll definitely look for that next time.

Hi all, Not the most detailed report, but a fairly incredible whirlwind (er...literally), non-stop session last night from 9pm to 3:30am. I've cut and pasted some of this as I'm dog-tired and owe my wife for putting the kids to bed last night, so computer time is limited at the moment. Really went for it last night, was very clear here in the NE of Scotland. Set up the 20" dob at 9pm on a hilltop at my dark sky 'B' spot, around 450m @21.80SQM. It takes a bit of work to load and set this big scope up, but to me, the views from a dark site are worth every calorie used to get it there! And some people buy a gym membership instead...🤣 GOTO was working a treat, took extra care on the levelling, alignment and centring alignment stars carefully to eyepiece - used an 8mm plossl to centre, seems to make a big difference over my typical semi-sloppy 'that'll do' alignment with a wide angle EP. Don't even know where to start with the observations... Caught B33/IC434 Horsehead early to test seeing/transparency, it was immediately and directly visible with the 17.5mm Morpheus and Hb before my eyes even fully dark adapted. A good sign and the more you see the HH, the easier it gets when the conditions agree. I've even caught it with my 300p from this site. Then up to Flame Nebula, down to M42, and in no particular order, Heart and Soul, lots of dispersed nebulosity here. Then Auriga with IC405, IC410 on each side of the 'Auriga Ladder' (see pic below), a quick label I came up with a few days ago for the double row of stars that separate IC410 and 405 - by the way, the 'ladder' was easily visible with the naked eye last night. (update - this asterism already is officially known by some as the 'flying minnow') Surprisingly, I also noted a very bright nebulous circular patch about the same size as IC410 a fair bit north of these but still in Auriga. I was still trying to figure out that one until this morning. The first answer based on my very brief description: Spider and Fly - thanks Gerry! The other possible though less likely contender Stephan mentioned is SH2-232, don't think many of the Sharpless catalogue objects are normally visible with binoculars, but using filters on good bins under dark skies might work here. Viewed these with both the scope and binoculars using OIII & Hb, my preferred bino filter choices. The widefield view through the binos was especially good. Excellent view of California Nebula with the 15x70s Apollos and Hb/OIII combo, first time I've seen it so clearly though the binoculars. This would be one for mounting the bins on a tripod and spending some time. I think you would need both filters on binoculars to see it, it's amazing how the brain combines the two different levels of brightness and contrast and picks the best of both. Back to the dob and M38, M36, NGC1907, NGC1893, M1 Crab Nebula, Pleiades, Double Cluster, Hind's Variable Nebula (amazing, looks like a comet, first view of that one), IC2162 (was going for Lower's Nebula, but got sidetracked - is Lower's Hb filter or OIII anyone?), IC 443 Jellyfish (very nice, a first on that). Some favs revisited - M108 Surfboard Galaxy, Owl PN. Then there was the Rosette... First time I've seen the Rosette, yes, first time. Holy smokes, sort of like a condensed version of the Veil, but seemed even brighter. Just stunning! And the circularity, just amazing. Going back to that one soon I hope. Went into the Caldwell Catalogue a bit more Cave Nebula, got all sorts with that one, seems very complex. Crescent Nebula, Eskimo PN (excellent), C59/NGC 3242 Ghost of Jupiter PN, just brilliant, very low on horizon. Cat's Eye nebula. I think that's it, left my sheet in the van! Then the galaxies... good grief. Just kept the 21 Ethos in the focuser to take it all in. Leo Triplet, Leo Quartet, over to M95, 96, 105 and the NGCs immediately to the north and then, over to Markarian's Chain and environs, first time there, another holy smokes moments with some audible gasping. I lost count at this point and was literally talking out loud to myself. Kind of like Bill Murray in Caddyshack if he was an amateur astronomer. Dozens of galaxies and I didn't even sweep the whole area. Head was spinning. Bright ones, faint ones, very faint ones showing just a slight whisper, side on, flat, you name it. Galaxies everywhere. Just mind-blowing. I certainly saw a lot of objects due to the GOTO. I know it's not a race, but the reason I didn't spend more time on each one was the wind. The vibrations from the gusts frequently made very detailed higher mag observations impossible. It was gusting steadily past 30mph for most of the night and was about -2C I reckon without windchill, so I would take in a few objects, hop in the van for a sip of coffee, pick some more from my list, and hop back out... I left the light shroud off the truss dob all night just to reduce windage, I simply wouldn't have been able to view with it on even with the van acting as a windblock, and there was always a chance it would pull the scope over. Wind was picking up considerably by this point and the scope was vibrating way to much to concentrate on anything in great detail, so I called it a night... My top 5 to revisit from last night: 1.) Markarian's Chain 2.) Rosette Nebula 3.) Hind's Variable Nebula 4.) Spider and Fly 5.) California Nebula Scratch that, I'd like to see them all again... PS I find using binoculars, especially with filters, under dark conditions complements the big dob and offers a lot of bang for the buck, as they say. You can take in some amazing widefield views, and the way the brain combines the same image using different filters for each eye is very interesting. Anyway, I'm beat! Thanks to everyone who has suggested DSOs by the way and advice on EPs and technique here on SGL, I'd be lost without. Good luck and happy observing all 👍

PS Geof - Meant to say I'll try the California Nebula tonight with the 15x70s and Hb and let you know how that works. We have a really good forecast for one of my dark sky spots locally, so I need to be extra nice to my wife today so I can get set up earlier! Terrible of me, I know... You caught quite a few targets with the binos, sounds like a great evening.

Excellent Geof, the Flaming Star is a tricky one, I might be fooling myself to say it's even visible through binos, but pretty sure I've caught a little nebulosity there before (maybe I was using the 300p that night from home along with the binos?) The Flame Nebula - even a hint is pretty good there! We had patches of clear sky, but also had 65mph gusts, so well done for getting out thee. Good comparisons with the Rev 15x70s - I'm already tempted to go bigger now. Aperture fever meets binoculars

The tweed is really hard wearing, lasts ages. Makes a good slipcover for cushions if you can get some cheap offcuts. By the way, that is an extremely impressive observatory and equally, if not more impressive, GEM mounts and scopes you have there! Quite talented to put it mildly. Superb!

Thanks for the invitation David, I'll join for sure. Abernethy is a lot closer to me as well. Hope the weather works for everyone at Galloway, I will have to make that trip next year, a bit too much on my plate at the moment, but a really nice part of Scotland, was just working down that way. Regards, Robert

The tweed was a £3 remnants bag from the outlet at Tarbert, Harris when we went over on the ferry a few years back. My wife sewed it together to make a cover for a sofa pillow, we bought a new sofa, and then I got my grubby hands on it! 🤣 Adds a nice touch to the otherwise industrial feel of the chair!

Hope you find a clear patch! Maybe Ventusky will show prevailing winds and you can find a clear spot?

Hi Tico, I had some Kasai widebinos which I really enjoyed but reluctantly sold them to fund some other astro gear, I'd like to pick up another pair in the future. I never did get a chance to use them with filters, I only own one 2" filter at the moment, they are quite expensive. I'd imagine under excellent conditions a fairly mild filter like a UHC or perhaps even DGM NPB would bump contrast effectively enough to enhance large objects like the North America nebula or the dark lanes in the milky way itself. If you do try filters, please let us know how they work!

Hi Adrian, Good to hear the Galloway event is still viable for hardstanding pitches.. Thanks for the information above. I'll definitely keep an eye out for the Perth event. I mentioned I sometimes observe from lay-bys or carparks before I edited my comment this morning, but I was referring to private areas on large Highland estates back a single track with no vehicles at night so it's pretty safe and definitely dark. There's no heat or electric unless your vehicle has something like a diesel heater/leisure battery. Wasn't suggesting people set up imaging rigs along a busy road, sorry, should have been clearer about that in my post. The bunkhouse and carpark I referred to earlier is now a decidedly posher affair, starting at £120 a night (ouch!) and assume for that price it's lit up a lot more now. And has mints on the pillows Just thought it was a shame if it was entirely cancelled due to some (very) wet grass, some folks this way might have a smaller observing session but didn't realise the distances some of the attendees travel. I don't do imaging (yet?) so frequently underestimate the electrical requirements for that as well. All the best there and hope this weather breaks for everyone a bit! PS I removed my earlier comment - glad to hear some of the pitches at Galloway are open for the SP.

Thanks for the info Gerry - I have my work cut out for me and getting lots of good sites from you and others, SGL is brilliant. Hopefully after I get a bit more experience I can point others towards some interesting DSOs. I just broke down the 500p and am catching my breath (literally). No nebulae tonight, but did tuck into some galaxies around Leo. Seeing was poor overall (could barely see M108 before I swung over to Leo) so pleased with what I did see, around nine or ten new galaxies. Will try and do an observing report tomorrow. Was picking the low-hanging galactic fruit in Leo by cruising through with the 21E and didn't bother setting up goto, just raci and start fishing. Would like to spend more time teasing out details. Don't think the 300p would have shown much tonight through the thin haze, so glad I went with the fuss of setting up the 500. The more I look into them, the galaxies are just mind-boggling, the sheer number, the distances and the size. Out to a proper dark sky site on Monday, fingers crossed, I will need to print off a list and hope my GOTO is in a good mood. FLO is apparently out of the 10mm BCO or awaiting more - are you working on commission? 🤣 Good luck out there tonight if your weather holds.

Comment deleted, no worries, thanks A!

Just think, at -30C if you started imaging you wouldn't need a cooler on your camera! Sorry...bad joke, typical of me👍 Heat gun, that's getting serious, but options are probably limited for defrosting in those temps. I'm wondering if my SW Synscan has Arp's in the catalogue, or find an NGC number if available I suppose, or do it properly and star hop? Arp 6 sounds quite interesting. Doubt I'd see it tonight from home with the local LP, but Monday night is looking like the real deal, so if it's not too windy, it's a trip with the big dob to the dark sky site. I set up the 500p at dusk tonight and...it's been cloudy ever since. Killed some time going through Uranometria and S&T/Stellarium. Met Office claiming it will be clear from 11pm (now) until 2am. Ventusky is showing clear around midnight to 1am. Moon rises around 12:30, so I'll have to work fast. Trying for Lower's Nebula and a few other targets on up to M35, then maybe over to the Eskimo PN. Will be a short session tonight by the time it clears, but will be late by the time I've put everything away. Keep finding these interesting DSOs! I'd never heard of Arp until today. I love this hobby, so much to learn and read about, even if the weather isn't cooperating.

I'm 6'2" and with the 500p, I'm usually standing fully upright, or one step up a small ladder, maybe two near zenith, but that's the nature of a scope like that. Only on objects around 30 deg or less am I standing in a 'comfortable slouch' or hands resting on knees. Never used a chair with this one. It wasn't until I recently picked up a 300p flextube (non-GOTO with a telrad and raci) that I cobbled together a modified 'Molte' chair from Ikea (a lofty £11) for comfortable sitting. I drilled extra holes to extend the height. Ohhh...what a difference it made to just sit relaxed at the eyepiece and not wobble or try and hold an uncomfortable position. I can move the 300p around on azimuth smooth as silk with one finger (it's on tiny needle bearings, the wind will actually cause it to weathervane if breezy) and adjusting the altitude is usually just a little nudge despite the rudimentary bearing system (hey, it works). A real pleasure to use this scope sitting down. Two different experiences, but when using the 300p sitting down, I find it's much easier to relax and take in finer details. NB - apologies, see you are mainly asking about using refractors, but I'd still go with seated if possible... the Molte Ikea chair can be a cheap observing chair you can happily leave outside (mine's been outside for five or six years, just resprayed the base a few weeks ago).

I will have to try a Delos eyepiece sometime, a lot of people clearly like them and I guess the fact they are rarely seen on the second-hand market (like the Paracorr, especially a P2) says a lot. I had a 9mm Delite and a 13mm Ethos. Wish I'd kept the Ethos, the Delite was nice but a little limited on FOV. No real complaints with the Delite though, easy to handle, affordable and didn't weight a ton. I just looked up BCO and it clicked. That's definitely more my budget at the moment. I like the Baader line in general regarding price vs performance, just picked up a 31mm Aspheric second-hand, a handy, light-weight finder EP with larger exit pupil which apparently is desired sometimes for using filters (heard that's helpful, but not entirely sure). Had the 36mm but the edges were really struggling in the f4 dob (no CC however, something I've started to use more). Ah yes, doing the Marty Feldman... a good term for viewing many DSOs! Good luck chasing the galaxies, it's mind-blowing how many there are just looking at the S&T pocket atlas, never mind Uranometria or Deep Sky Atlas.

Just a bit cold there! I was looking at M108 last night with the 300p, haven't been able to get out with the 500p lately, lots of storms here and family things going on, been using the bins a fair bit from home when possible. I've seen the two almost 'embedded' PGCs in M108 on Stellarium, but haven't had a crack at it with the 500p under really good conditions lately. Sounds like a challenge because they will be competing with the surface brightness of M108 but who knows? For things like that I'll try the Leica zoom (basically 8.9-17.8mm) with 2x powermate and see how much mag I can reasonably use before everything gets too dark, but a 10mm EP sounds about right. I'm sure you know a bit more about that than I do! I'm limited on my shorter focal length EPs as well at the moment, so the Leica sees a fair bit of use in that department. Stay warm (ish)!

I had a quick look and don't think you will have much of a reaction between steel and aluminium on this level, stainless steel apparently is a bit more reactive with aluminium, but still not a big deal if sealed over. If the obsy came with stainless fasteners into aluminium, then they most likely accounted for that. Enjoy the obsy, would love to have one someday.

I don't have an obsy but sounds like you have the right idea tidying things up with a ring terminal you can crimp on the end. 6mm2 is around 10-12awg wire I think. Ring terminals are pretty cheap: https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/crimp-ring-terminals/6139413/ You might dab some wheel bearing or CV grease on it afterwards to protect the connection from the elements if it's somewhere you won't accidentally pick it up on hands/clothes and track into the house. In lieu of that, a few coats of outdoor paint like good old Hammerite or epoxy primer (like Bonda with zinc, great for rusty surfaces) should probably provide an adequate seal. Or just dab on silicone bath caulking! Don't know what kind of metallic reaction you would have over time between aluminium and steel fasteners, etc but others will perhaps weigh in that. An airtight seal should in theory prevent corrosion I'd think between dissimilar metals.

May I ask what are the advantages of this type of mobile pier over a standard type metal tripod? More stability and more room? Both piers above look quite sharp.

I couldn't resist popping in the UHC and OIII filters tonight and having a quick scan before the moon rose too much. The nebula in M42 was greatly enhanced and frankly pretty impressive. I was fighting high cloud, so came back in for a bit. When it cleared, I swapped to Hb and OIII combo and went for NGC1499, California Nebula. Hopping up from the Pleiades, I located the approximate area, but by this time, the moon had lit up the sky a great deal... I really can't wait to get out to any dark sky sites with the Apollos and some filters in my pocket. And maybe a dob in the van of course. DSO hunting starts first half of Thursday night (moonrise not until around 11:15pm), plus early Saturday morning and so far, Monday night are looking promising...

Definitely! They are pretty impressive optically and the build quality has to be about as robust as possible. I'm popping back out tonight with the binoculars once the children are asleep, if they don't wear out dad first!

Thanks Scarp, I looked at the Lightquest and APMs (which are same as the Lunts I believe) but none were going second hand except some 20x80 lightquest which sold before I could blink. They both seem to offer a good amount of eye relief. I think it's the filter threads that take up a fair bit of EF on the Apollos, but as a nebula junkie, they are worth it for that. Best of all, you've probably just talked me into my first refractor! Have to wait a while on that for a while however. Plenty to keep me busy this season in the meantime.

If the Apollos are the only reasonably affordable binoculars that take 1.25 filters, and assuming any others that do, don't offer greatly increased eye relief, then I shall be hanging onto them for sure. I'll check out Steve's website, sounds very intriguing!