Charic

It will be You! Some will like, others won't, no matter what the branding/type, but eyepiece selection will always be subjective and often difficult until you have bought or loaned an eyepiece and tested for yourself. Finding the wrong one can be daunting, but finding the right one is a joy. I'm sure your understanding wife would not bat an eyelid if you have to sell/replace that eyepiece, in order to find something better suited for your needs, though I do like the inner tube fix? That's got to be worth a few quid to buy a tube from Halfords, just to see if an extended eye-guard will indeed work, then either maintain the tube guard or buy an original Teleview extender. I've been disappointed on two occasions so far and one pending? firstly,when I bought my first 6mm EP, the TMB Planetary II, it felt as though I was looking through a tube, then along came the William Optics SPL, what a difference, its just a pity there is not a 6mm BST? Secondly, my first use of a TeleVue Plössl, the 8mm was too short on eye-relief ( the opposite almost, of your issues ) and pending? I still love my Starguiders, despite my Delois giving me a wider field of view, and yet they should be much, much better IMHO and at £330 new against £49 you would expect ( I would) a massive difference, but sadly no! hardly any difference except the field of view, and with that, I'm sure there is less coma in my BST due to the narrower field. Their good (Delos) but not worth their full retail in my opinion ( to my eyes, they appear to give me the same visual result, I expected better, far better ) So not sure what to do next? I doubt I`ll need the 3.5 or the 4.5mm in the range ( I do like to complete a set ) and the three I already have are more than suited for my needs, and even these could be Barlowed to achieve a further 3, 4 and 5mm, but this is extreme, and as for the 12, 14 and 17.3, well, if they appear at the right price, who knows! I need some more detailed testing with my eyes using the Delos, possibly with the use of a Dioptrx corrector lens! One thing for sure, I think I'e settled on my Revelations as my Plössl of choice, their just so comfortable, bright, sharp and easy to use with my eyes on an f/6 Skyliner. Give the DIY extender a trial, see if it works, and if it does, you won't have to tell the Mrs you need another eyepiece!# lastly, your mention of eyeglasses? I don't wear glasses at the telescope either, but maybe I should to help correct some 1.0 dioptre astigmatism! My own glasses ( now single vision, rather than varifocals ) improve my visuals when just looking up at the stars, hence my intention to test/trial the TeleVue Dioptrx on the Delos. The Delos range all have a 20mm eye-relief and adjustable eyeguards.

........would not be a great forum if there was no discussion, all part of the service, and here's another ramble during my lunch. No one goes out to build a bad eyepiece, but some folk build them better, its just a matter of locating what we feel is right and what suits the occasion for our situation. I have too many EP's ( some may suggest ) as some folk could work with just the recommended three: High, Medium and Low powered, but this amount of eyepieces gives me a far greater choice to better frame the target/subject, and as long as it fills whatever percentage of the field of view I desire and is in focus, then it must be the right eyepiece at that time. Every eyepiece out there will be the most suitable for a certain target under the right conditions in the right telescope! I'd always imagined in the beginning I would own a Plössl set and one other? Meade were to be the EPs of choice, but the Japan's were not available at that time ( the 4000's) and oh so many folk suggesting the BSTs, so after purchasing the 8mm I had to build my first set/collection, their just great EP's for my needs, f/6 telescope, but so many folk Talked about the TeleVue range, and how great they were? I was tempted to buy the whole set from the first day, there was enough money, but I decided to resist the temptation, and see how well I could do on less expensive EP's, proof, BST Starguider. Like cars they do the same job, Bentley Continental or Fiat 500?I know what I would like,but the Bentley gets me there just as quick! So when I first tried a TV Plössl, maybe it was the wrong one for me, as I was not blown away with the 8mm, solely due to the comfort aspect, not the eyepiece quality, infact If I had bought the 32mm TeleVue Plössl, I may have not purchased my Panaview, but considering the Plössl only has 50° afov, the Panaview offers more at 70° If I could only take a handful of EP's on a trip now, it would be my 6,8 12 & 32mm, so that's an SPL, two BSTs and a Panaview? Surely the 6,8 & 12mm Delos and possibly the Panaview would be the better option, for many folk? I have found that the minimum amount of eyepieces I could do with is one that matches the telescopes focal ratio and the next eyepiece twice the focal length of the first eyepiece, so a 6mm and a 12mm for the likes of an f/6 Dobsonian. with decent eye relief and 60° afov, why cant the manufacturers comply? I wonder if someone here has both the TeleVue Plössl and Panaview 32mm, what's their verdict? I will probably just notice the difference in the field of view, rather than any great improvement over the image itself? Sure, the TV 32 may be better corrected at the edge of the field of view, but that's not been an issue for my self to-date, I just follow the target on axis,, I don't go for a full drift across the field of view. As for my Delos, I bought then for the following reasons ~ Was hoping to have a larger apertured telescope, their personally checked/corrected for faster focal ratios, I got them at a reasonable price, and recently have investigated their Dioptrx system which may better my vision through them, possibly seeing far more than I see now? Alan, I`m sure you`ll like the 32mm until someone else lends you a wider 32mm, if ever that is a requirement. For example, my Panaview is my M31 EP and its still not wide enough?

Now that hurts? That has been my lifelong dream to live near and work at Heathrow Airport. An ATC controller was my desire, but educationally my scores were pants, so no chance in that career ? An apprenticeship at Hawker Siddley, Kingston was also on the cards, but again education would not let me in ? but all was not lost, since those early days, have had the opportunity to have controlled real Aircraft, in the skies from the visual tower, and as a Radar controller, but not from the Heathrow tower? I would happily swap my skies for your location for different reasons?

If they move on, you will be the first to know. If they prove their worth I will hold my hands up and keep them.

I do, but don't tell everyone, it's a secret! Yes many folk are amazed here on the good nights when Starlight from the Milkyway creates body shadows, only a mile or so out of town, and a few of the stopping places along the A9 between Perth and Aviemore remind me of Stellarium with Weather switched off ? Marketing or not, TeleVue have built upon their reputation, and the Ethos is/was the blueprint for the Delos, so they should be good, but it has been said before, a £300+ EP over one of my £49 eyepieces does not automatically make it six times better, infact some of the changes are so slight, it could be the reason that I don't see those differences, except the obvious, wider field and cost, but more likely than not, its my eyes that are at fault! The Delos 8mm aside the Starguider, Its the Starguider for me at present in-fact (no offence) you could buy 6 Starguiders for the price of a New Delos? and the Starguiders are very good on an f/6. Maybe the Delos will be better for me on a faster scope, better edge of field correction or if I incorporate the their Dioptrx system. more clarity overall, I have prescriptions but don't use at the telescope. Winter not too far away with darker/longer nights to go out and test, weather permitting ? The TV Plössl's are good, even had a patent that made improvements over other Plössl's, so I see no reason why the 32mm would be any worse than a Delos in my case. Find what suits and enjoy.

Stu- John ( and others ? ) have also implied the same, take my time to eek out the benefits from my Delos, because they were made to be that way, superior? However, regardless of the eyepiece I use in my collection, my eye tells a different story? I know the TVs are highly praised, and work wonders, but my local viewing conditions and limited use ( 2016 weather ? ) have curtailed any attempts to venture away to a proper dark site, and give these eyepieces the workout they deserve, so far only the field of view is noticeable to my eyes. I do not have membership or any known local astronomers, except Floater! Gordon. ( we'll meet one Day? ) so I decided the only way to test and confirm, is to buy the eyepieces I'm interested in and put them to test. I will sell on those not required?

Timebandit, There never was any issue or dislike to your comment! I jumped into the thread having seen the word "collection", and used that as a way of adding something to the thread, although reading back now, maybe slightly off-track to the OP's question, but my comments were not meant to question or belittle your opinion? Often, folk ask "should I buy this or that set" and I used your "little collection" text just to highlight why I personally chose not to collect a certain set, based on the short eye-relief. It was really as simple as that. Sorry if you thought/felt otherwise. There is no issue

I agree, Alan does like his 20mm in favour of his Meade 4000 ( I own a couple ! ) My point and generalization was directed to your "little collection" statement ( whatever the brand) and my reason for my not taking that route, if there was any confusion?

...this may be an issue for some folk? For me its all or nothing! I have tried TeleVue Plossl EPs in 8mm and 11mm and found the 8mm almost unbearable to use due to the tightness of the eye-relief, so on that basis, could not go ahead and purchase the "set/collection" due to the fact that I would have to omit the 8mm on personal grounds? Yet I find some (£23 retail) Plossl's ( not what I paid ) that feel more comfortable, sharper and brighter to my eyes, and far less eye-relief using the 6mm, so why are they inferior on paper to a TV, yet to my eyes, view very well for my needs, on axis, visual use only. I should really be keeping my TeleVue EP's on the basis that they are good, but good for what/who? My cheapo Revelation Plossl set betters my Meade and TV Plossl and My Delos beats my Starguiders only on field of view, yet the image seems the same, to my old eyes.....!!!!! There will never be a satisfactory conclusion to the eyepiece debate, its a matter of finding what you feel works best for your needs, and stick with it.

Very nice image. Its a lot colder up here in Scotland, compared to Kos, but the skies are just as dark if your prepared to drive out of town. On reading your text I found this link which lists Moray, and its local club, I'm not a member! http://www.scotoutdoors.com/features/top-5/top-5-places-to-enjoy-the-night-sky. On their last visit, I drove family members less than 5 mins out of town, they were amazed, taken back, that so much Star light can create body shadows when you hold your arms out! Wow! just found this link to my back garden? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtIvfrSw1uU I have fished, camped and admired the Stars on so many occasions passing through on my travels, but the biggest issue for me are the biting midges, and for them to invade my scope and equipment? This Loch is only 50 mins drive from my house, and of all the dark sites I can think of around my locality, this must be the best, I have others closer, but this is my all-time favored spot to test. I will do , hopefully this season, when conditions allow, maybe first with just a selection of binoculars, then camp out ( in the car) with the scope, gotta avoid those midges

Quite a stunning build, well done. I have contemplated many times to convert an old 6'x4' wooden, hand built shed, into a basic permanent hide, but due to my local street lighting ( I can see 5 lamps if I stand in the right position?) I gave up on the idea, simply due to the suitability of the site and the constant in your face glare from these lights, but I can move to other places in my garden, where its possible to avoid most of the street lights, where a temporary and a tall utility tent suffices. The wooden shed got dismantled this week and presented to my neighbour, and during the rebuild, I noted the lack of directly visible street lights from the sheds new position, and amazingly a much better view to the South, with no direct street lighting hitting the eyes at all? An amazing difference just a few feet can make. I too have just posted a mention regarding rubber matting in Halfords on another thread, looks like your one step ahead, although if burying cables, under any mat/matting, just ensure its not under a busy passage way, if you know what I mean, cables that are constantly trodden on can and may break down under the weight of human traffic. There is also another type of cable management that I have seen in offices, which is a rubber strip, strengthened with an underside channel that holds a cable in its place and avoids the weight of human traffic, not that 100's will be flocking through every night.........maybe they will?

.......I keep seeing those Rolson interlocking mats in Halfords, maybe they could help save the day, before the next person drops something? I remember lifting a chair in the dark and the binoculars falling, good thing the strap was around the backrest! When I say dark, even the lume on my watch is too bright, so if/when using the tent, I like to be in total darkness, feeling my way around?

The 6mm SPL is a fine eyepiece indeed. I tried purchasing their 3mm to complete my set, but the seller refused to budge from their price which was almost retail, telling me its still brand new in a box , I'm sure that EP was auctioned three times to the best of my knowledge, because the price was too high (I assume) yet he second hand ones I've purchased were mint, and nowhere near the price he was asking, so still waiting, to complete that set. Again, as for the rest of my EP collection, my 6mm SPL was bought on recommendations from other users here at SGL, and I have no issues with it. I could not buy a 6mm Starguider, and I really wanted/needed one, so the 6mm SPL was it's replacement. I have other 6mm eyepieces in my collection, and reading a few lines today from a document on the web, it said something like, some EP's cost more, some work better, but the ones that cost more are not always better? On paper they may be, but your eye, telescope and conditions will dictate whether an eyepiece is good or not. Hands down, I still prefer my BST's, and sorry, but my 6mm SPL is not yet available to complete your 6mm WO Bino experience, if that's an option for you. They say looking at the Moon through binoviewers is awesome, virtually 3D, so how will they compare to standard binoculars, I'll be interested to hear your review.

I don't have Bino viewers (yet) but if its a lightweight Plossl, a Delos or my Nikon DSLR, I just tighten the tension controls slightly, so no balance issue for me! I would imagine the Bresser to be equal? The Skyliner can be transported by car, separated from its base, again, the Bresser should be equal? The 9x50 finder works well for me if I keep both eyes open! The Telrad is seldom used from home ? and I need glasses to see the bulls-eye! I have had no issues with the focuser that cant be adjusted, for friction or locking, again, the Bresser may have a similar solution. The Bresser does look nice, the Skyliner just works, no frills! Possibly why its so popular? There is an Explorer too, f/5 and EQ mounted ( just not my cup of tea?)

If you want to showcase this scope during the day, I would have the Bresser, based on its style and good looks, but looks alone do not improve the visual result from the eyepiece. Which ever scope you purchase, no doubt there is room for improvement, be that any upgrade, or eyepiece selection, provided your scope is fully collimated and you have good conditions for observing. If your just going to leave it under wraps, in a cupboard, for most of the Summer, like my Skyliner, due to the high levels of twilight ( I'm at at 57°N - The Bresser would be no different ) there is no better value than the 8" Skyliner, and the view from either scope using my 8mm Starguider or an 8mm Delos, my eyes will probably still perceive the same image. Go get the Bresser, but that Skyliner is mighty affordable

Cheers John. Not sure I really need wider than my BST's, so not really looking for the expanse, or the expense? My reference is more to do with the information I'm reading suggesting ( to me ) that optically, the Delos could be more noticeable as a 'better' optic due to the mechanical / design parameters, than say a Starguider in a scope faster than f/5. The intention was to get a 12"?And your quite right, the field edge is not something that over bothers me for now, so having a wider view to be honest is possibly a waste ? Brasspoodle, Hi, The Delos has the Dioptrix facility too, which was also a consideration for my eyes, when/if used in conjunction with the faster scope above. As for eye-relief, I have no issues with the Starguiders.

They don't need to be expensive to work well, they just need to work well for your eyes alone . My favorite's, the BSTs, work very well on my f/6 scope, and I'm amazed with the performance of the Revelation Astro's. How can they work so well, yet be so cheap ( paid £9 for one of them!). I'm still trying to evaluate the Delos ( due to poor conditions ) but on the night its still an 8mm with a slightly wider view, I still see the same target through the Starguider! Do you need to pay THAT much more for the wider view/same image ? That said, I'm lead to believe there would be a marked difference between the image sharpness across the field if used on a faster non tracking telescope ( this was my intention, to get a faster, larger 10" or 12" scope, but the EP's came first ) but for now ( when I have a chance ) I'll just see a wider field of view.

The Skyliner is a decent telescope, the Bresser looks different in comparison, a bit more stylish though, and possibly equal in their performance, and to be honest, at the end of the Day, the sky conditions, eyepieces and a correctly collimated telescope will dictate the quality of your final image. I would imagine the visual result from these two scopes are very similar, if not the same under the same conditions. For the extra £55 its the Bresser for its stylish looks, but who will see them in the dark, or during the day if kept under wraps? The saved £55 will buy a decent 60° Starguider EP!

The weather has not been kind this Year, so any project that will help you in the future, no matter when you start, has to be a bonus. Dont leave it too long before that hole fills with water?

.......took me ages to make up my mind on my selection for some 10x50's but was fortunate enough to purchase from FLO last Year the Helios 8x40s for under £50 if I remember correctly, will need to check the bill? Based on the 8x40s, I've no doubt the 10x50s will be just as good, although a little less field of view. My Helios 8x40s with their +8° field are my firm favourites, and for my 10x50s, I settled on the Strathspey Marines.

I prefer my 9x50 optical finder ( when at home ) . For roughly the same price, the choice is yours. Check out astroboot for the optical, and 365Astronomy for the Telrad. I'd still have a go at fixing the original Telrad.

Hi.......for about £15 the Revelation Astro GSO 12mm (search GSO) from Astroboot will, in my opinion, better the Celestron supplied 10mm EP you have. The 20mm you have will be ok for now until you want to experience wider fields of view and longer eye relief. I have some Revelation Astro's and their sharp and bright for my eyes.

Mak the Night, Don't tell everyone, they'll all wan't one? A strange fact but true, some of the cheapest and dare I say it, poorest eyepieces for some folk will work extremely well when suited to a particular telescope having the right focal ratio. I have some Plossl's that range from £10 and their image quality ( last time I looked, sometime back, due to this seasons weather so far ) is very good, in fact so good, I'm having to check some TeleVue Plossl's to believe my own eyes ( I believe the hype that TeleVue may be the best ) but I still have some issues with their Plossl range ( my last test, the TV came second best, yet I will test again under darker and more strict conditions ) and the yet because cheapness and quality does not often go hand-in-hand, at the end of the day, its what satisfies the end user. But if it works and matches the scope to your liking, that's a result. You have acquired some eyepiece that work to your liking and saved you possibly a small fortune in the process, that has to be a self pat on the back. It really does not have to be expensive to enjoy this hobby.

The Skyliner 200P f/6 comfortably works at 200x so a 6mm eyepiece works for me, and is a good starting point, practical and achievable. The WO 6mm SPL is a liitle less afov than a Starguider. My 5mm works well on the Moon so does the 3.2mm! I have the 6mm SPL as I can't get the 6mm Starguider yet? Try the 8mm Starguider or the 12mm, compare them, Barlow them, both very good. For my darker site, the 2" 70° afov 32mm Panaview is my choice, great on M31 from a dark Moonless night?

I've not heard many folk come back and say their upgraded EP is worse than the supplied 10mm. I for one, have not yet tried, seen or handled any Antares EPs? If the seeing conditions are good, and the collimation of your scope is good ( a guide here http://www.astro-baby.com/collimation/astro%20babys%20collimation%20guide.htm) then there is an issue with the chosen EP. You say it looks perfect, but that alone is not enough? some eyepieces just don't work for some individuals, whereas their favoured by others. Ask yourself why did the seller sell? a bargain maybe, although they may not have paid £170 to start with? Perhaps it did not suit them either. You have to have them, but eyepieces can mess you around until you try them, eventually finding the right one that suits. My EPs for my eyes, work very well on the 200P Skyliner. I favour the 60° Starguiders.