PhotoGav

@RayD - thanks, I’m happy with the way the project is progressing, satellites notwithstanding. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with this sat issue, we are coming to rely on all this technology and there is an opportunity cost that we must bear. The problem is that the skies are busy already, but the current population is just nothing compared to the predicted numbers. Bear in mind that SpaceX have about 500 Starlink satellites in orbit now, but the constellation requires more like three times that number to provide its first level of service.  Multiply that number by the three or four other constellations that are set to be launched over the coming decade and we will be dreaming of the good old days when we had just twenty or so sat trails to deal with in an image! Personally, I think it’s a question of limits, not of an outright ban. Compromise is always the way forwards. 

@Davey-T - they're everywhere! Gather enough subs and they will be just faint inclusions!

@Corncrake - thank you, I was rather pleased with the variation and colours!

Fascinating discussion folks, thank you for contributing. It's very interesting to see that we are not all of the same opinion.

Anyway, here is a quick data update. I haven't gathered the whole set yet, but thought it would be interesting to see how the rejection gets on with those trails. So, with minimal processing beyond calibrating, stacking and combining the LRGB data sets in APP...

Here it is with no rejection:

And here it is with sigma rejection:

There is hope after all (as expected!)...

(This does not mean I now condone the satellite mega-constellations!)

Clear sat-free skies to you all

1 hour ago, Philip R said:

Apologies in advance if this appears political.

The FCC; (i.e. Federal Communication Commission; a.k.a. 'Funny Candy Company'); is the US communications regulator of communications via TV, radio, internet, etc. It does the same as OFCOM here in GB/UK. Other countries have their own communications regulators.

Both FCC and OFCOM; (and those of other countries); issue and decline the licences to the operators.

Maybe 'we' should be lobbying the FCC. If the GB/UK is planning to start launching its own satellite network service; then perhaps 'we' should start lobbying OFCOM too.

Too true. Would it be most appropriate to lobby for sensible low limits to the number of satellites allowed, rather than attempting to quash any satellites being launched (an unlikely eventuallity!)?

2 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

Worth remembering too that the 'amazing lines of satellite clones marching across the night sky' are only visible in the initial days after launch. The sats soon move themslves into different orbital altitudes and planes as they boost themselves into their final orbits.

Very true. That is why I suggest to people who only see them in the first 'marching' phase and are amazed by them, thinking 'how cool', that once they are less conspicuous to the naked eye, they are still very much an issue for astronomers. That's all.

Wouldn't it be ironic if it were the Starlink satellites themselves that ended up defending the Earth from an incoming hazardous object as the shield they form around the Earth broke up the offending rock as it hit them!!

8 minutes ago, MarkAR said:

So if all you have to do is get permission from one government agency to launch whatever you like into space, then all we need is permission to launch one satellite to "clear space debris" and problem solved. All we need is a satellite capable of nudging stuff out of orbit, we could even pay Musk to launch it.

That’s how wars start!!

The negative impact of the Starlink satellite constellation and other similar large satellite systems is far from 'fake news'. Have a look at any current professional astronomical discussion of the subject, especially the impact this is having / will have on wide field survey projects (e.g. the Vera Rubin Observatory). They are having to try and find work arounds, but there is no guarantee that these will be found or will be effective. The least that SpaceX can do is enter into a discussion. Thankfully, we astrophotographers have sigma rejection algorithms to help tidy up our pretty pictures.

I will keep watching this developing story with great interest. I will also keep telling people that the 'amazing lines of satellite clones marching across the night sky' are not amazing at all...!

While Elon Musk may have some amazing research and development projects on the go (Crew Dragon & Falcon get my full approval!), I really don’t think that we, as astronomers, should happily accept his, and others, desire and action to fill the sky with satellites. Surely humankind can find alternative methods of supplying fast internet to barren, deserted, unpopulated areas of the Earth’s surface? Do we even need to supply internet to such areas? Are we not able to collaborate as a species on other satellite projects such as GPS - does each nation really have to launch its own constellation to provide such services?

To gawp at the majesty and mystery of the night sky is one of the greatest joys of being human. We should not accept it being obliterated. We are experiencing just the first few streaks right now. In as little as ten years time the impact of the predicted number of new satellites is terrifying.

This is without even mentioning the impact of the inevitable accidents that will occur with that much LEO traffic. We’ve all seen ‘Gravity‘, just one collision could seriously impact human space travel.

I posted my images as I am passionate about astronomy and astrophotography and am increasingly concerned about the impact of commercial space operations. I am delighted that the thread has developed in the way that it has. Thank you all for your input. It is a critical discussion to have.

Above all, let’s try to mitigate humankind’s ability to ruin its environment. We are ambassadors for the Universe. 

1 hour ago, Zakalwe said:

Strictly speaking, the motivation is to provide funding to make Man an interplanetary species, just in case a lump of rock from the sky wipes us out. Our species is unique and leaving it on one planet to the vagaries of some random piece of rock is too risky.

I'm comfortable with some home astronomers having their hobbies affected if that's the price.

That's an interesting angle on this.

Just to broaden the discussion - do you think that Man is going to be able to 'planet hop' within our solar system successfully and on a 'beyond a tourist visa' basis? The next star system is unknown and too far away for quite some time to come yet, I would imagine. Is Mars really the answer for Homo Sapiens? Bearing in mind that Mars is just as likely to be struck by some random piece of rock. In fact, I would imagine that it is actually far more likely to be struck by rocks, given its lack of atmosphere and proximity to the asteroid belt. I can see that it doubles the chance of survival, given that if one goes we have a back-up to rely on.

This is such a fascinating area of astronomy / space travel / ethics / philosophy / technology!

I am certainly hoping that rejection algorithms will eliminate these trails. I don’t have total success normally though, so am a bit concerned.

It’s true that these satellites are more illuminated in the summer months when the Sun is not so far beneath the horizon, but come on, that is becoming a curtain of hardware, being drawn across our view of the night sky. The motivation is profit. I can do something about man putting junk up in space. I can’t do too much about the Sun not sinking far enough for a couple of months a year!!

Interesting comments about PHOs being obscured from surveys. Everyone, please cross your fingers...

Here's the combined lumminance data I have so far, 4hrs 40min, with no rejection at all. Sorry no calibration frames used either, so it's pretty ugly anyway!

Hopefully they will all be eliminated in the proper rejection stack, but I fear that I will have to bin the subs with the brightest trails.

I’ve just gathered tonight’s first 1200s Luminance sub of the Iris Nebula and this is what I am up against... 

It’s as though that Musk person knows exactly how to wind me up.

10 hours ago, Northernlight said:

Hi,

Could you please send me his details so that i can get in touch wiith this guy as my QSI 683 just died a horrible death - had a power spike or something as it fried camera as it gave off a plume of smoke and a strong burning smell

Cheers,

Richard.

 

Oh no, that does not sound good. I will PM you the details. 

I held an online solar viewing outreach session from my back garden observatory this afternoon and, despite the hazy cloud's best efforts to scupper it all, there was a beautiful double loop prominence on the upper oncoming limb for all to admire through the wobbly seeing. The session lasted two and a half hours; it was great to see change in this area and little areas of bubbling activity around the limb. Here is an image of the prominence taken during the session. The kit used was a Lunt LS50T Ha with 2.5x Powermate and Chameleon3 camera. One exposure for the limb and one for the surface, 100 frames from 1000 stacked for each image. We named this the Dolphin prominence!

12 hours ago, Brian28 said:

I have 2 QSI cameras and have them looked after by a Gentleman in Worksop,..  he can service them recharge the argon ,change out sensors etc etc ..he just replaced 2 fans for me using OE parts and checked the camera for less than £60 .. all in .. if you need his details just message me .. 

Yes please, always good to have a reliable fixer up the sleeve! Thankfully my dodgy fix is working perfectly and the cooling is efficient, for now.

Are you all on a commission with Sky-Watcher??!! All these Esprit 150 shots... I like, I want, I'm annoyed with the Edge 8" despite it giving me usable results. As you well know, there is an affliction for the humble astrophotographer that there is always a better result available with an upgrade or two and I am suffering from the affliction particularly painfully right now!!

As for astro-darkness... it is about to wane to nothing here too. Globular season is upon us... which has multiple issues for focusing with an SCT and SGP... argh!!!!

Finally, the upgrade to Astrodon RGB filters has seriously improved the colour that I get with broadband images. Well worth every penny.

1 hour ago, tomato said:

Great result, for an interesting comparison here is my effort using a faster scope (Esprit 150 F7) and smaller pixel CMOS camera ASI 178. You have crisper detail and a deeper image which is what it is all about, but mine only took 8.7 hrs of integration.

For those that follow the Ronald Reagan approach to his film making i.e. "We don't want quality, we want it by Thursday",  mine is the way to go! 😄

Thanks also for identifying the irregular galaxy which I had no luck with. 

That is definitely an interesting comparison. I’m constantly wondering whether I would do better with an Esprit 150. The focusing would certainly be easier. The Edge is a pillock to focus!

There are a couple more faint and distant fuzzies on the right hand side of my image... they are in the hundreds of millions of light years away. It’s big out there!!

Thank you @MarkAR, @souls33k3r and @Laurin Dave!

@souls33k3r - yes, it was at the telescope's native focal length of 2032mm at f10. Thank goodness for the Mesu! The main reason I purchased that mount was to improve the long focal length stuff and thankfully it is working. I just need to upgrade my seeing and I will get better results! Can't find a reliable website for that upgrade though......

NGC 2903 is a barred spiral galaxy found just below the head of Leo at around 20 to 30 million light years from Earth. It has a significantly high rate of star formation all around the core of the galaxy, visible as the pinkish HII regions. Apart from that, it's a pretty regular galaxy. It's a bit smaller than the Milky Way at around 80,000 light years diameter. It makes for a pretty picture though! It is a 9th magnitude fuzzy blob, which is visible in a telescope. Though it wasn't catalogued by Messier, perhaps he just knew it wasn't a comet?! It was first discovered and catalogued by William Herschel in November 1784. The faint fuzzy blob below NGC 2903 is the distant irregular galaxy, UGC 5086, some 24 million light years from Earth.

Technical Specs

Celestron EdgeHD 8" with QSI 683-WSG8 and Astrodon 31mm filters, all on a Mesu-200 mount.

L = 39 x 1200s
RGB = 18 x 600s
TOTAL = 22 hours

I also shot some H alpha data, but it didn't add anything to the image, so I didn't use it. It is amazing how much the HII regions have shown up with just the Red filter.

The data were gathered at the end of March, but I've only just got round to processing it. All done with APP and PhotoShop.

I hope you like the image and I look forward to hearing your comments.

Clear skies!

Good work folks, I am convinced by that aircraft identification. It is heading in the right direction at the right time (and it was flashing!). It must be a brief contrail that spreads out. Or, given that it was a DHL flight, perhaps an unwanted package that was 'liberated'!

Thank you for your investigations. Though it is, of course, mildly disappointing!!

15 hours ago, Philip R said:

Hi @PhotoGav.

You also have captured 'something travelling north-west to south-east as well - just after 3:11:xx, (sorry! could not catch the seconds). 

Yes, the sky seemed really busy with satellites throughout the night.... Musk, etc, grrrrrr

Yup, probably just an airplane...

Pretty sure it’s not anything on the camera dome - it waits away on the wind.

Confined to the big box of ‘I’ll never know’ things!!!

Here are the main frames, one by one...

Here is footage from my all sky camera at around 3am BST this morning (12th May 2020). You will see an object move from top to bottom and leave a 'puff of smoke' at the end. What is going on there? It looks like a satellite trail, but one of those out of control spinning satellites with an intermittent flash. I don't think it is an airplane - they normally look quite different with two flashing lights (one on each wing) and also, there are virtually no aircraft in the sky at the moment. Next weirdness is that the streak appears to carry on beyond the 'puff'. Could it be a satellite and a meteor / fireball whose paths just happen to conincide perfectly? Or is it a satellite burning up in the atmosphere??!