Webcams Comparisons Please!

[Astrosurf]

I have a Phillips SPC900NC and have been trying to compare it with other webcams as this one's now rare and expensive, in case it gets damaged and I have to replace it. I'm useless with comparisons as I get swamped with detail.

Have any of you done comparisons with the best cameras and possibly have photos to show? This would be very useful and I hope wil help others as well.

Alexxx

[red dwalf]

all i know Alex is the philips 880 and 900 have a ccd chip instead of a cmos chip, ccd is supposed to be better, i belive they are also the same as the celestron neximage cameras, all i belive all have a 1/4" chip inside.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

There are several webcams and low cost planetary cameras floating about which are essentially the same. The more important question is whether you want to go for something more sensitive (based on newer chips).

[Astrosurf]

Thanks guys. A more sensitive chip with better resolution would be good of course. I did the Asda one but it's awful. Mind you, I probably damaged it.

I can't afford to spend too much on one though, in case I damage it and waste the money!

Does anyone use one that's really good? I reaally just want to be sure before I buy.

[red dwalf]

you can still find the philips 880 and 900 for a reasonable price £30-£40 when the sellers don`t get carried away, but the next real step up would be the imaging source dmk type cameras, in comparison, expensive, i`ve had some lovely images of Jupiter at Kelling with my philips 900, it`s amazing what differance a clear sky makes, the philips cameras only work at 5-10 frames per second before compressing data where as the imaging source cameras work at alot fast frame rates

[Aenima]

Hi there,

As well as using the spc880/900nc I have no doubt about the MS lifecam cinema hd/studio hd mod. The difficulty is with the mod itself, it involves a bit of DIY - but the quality is good as if not better than the 900nc. There are a few good tutorials online and pics to demonstrate their abilities as a planetary cam.

I know how you feel about your spc900nc - mine was used £50 on ebay and for a change I didnt mind paying this kind of price, though the dmk or atik type cams are good quality they cost silly money and comparisons there are hard to judge because of that.

So if you can mod or get it modded, those lifecam cinema or studio (the others arent worth modding) models give excellent results.

http://ghonis2.ho8.com/lifecam/lifecam1.html

May your spc900nc live long and prosper.

Regards

Aenima

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cloudynights.com%2Fubbthreads%2Fshowflat.php%2FCat%2F0%2FNumber%2F4730676%2Fpage%2F0%2Fview%2Fcollapsed%2Fsb%2F5%2Fo%2Fall%2Ffpart%2Fall%2Fvc%2F1&ei=34VpUKTZGum70QXb0oD4DQ&usg=AFQjCNG1tXY8Byv0EgVTN-c1vFgVAzZWKQ

[JamesF]

I think the Lifecams really struggle unless you can get a fair bit of light onto them. I'll be trying the Lifecam and Xbox cam out against my SPC900 on Jupiter soon, but thus far with my 127 Mak nothing holds a candle to the SPC in that kind of price range. With the C9.25 it might be different, but I can't test that right now.

I did try the Lifecam out for solar imaging the other day and it was much better than when I've tried it for imaging Mars and Saturn, which really just confirms my opinion that it needs much higher light levels to work well.

James

[Aenima]

Thats a shame, from the specs and reports from sites I visited it seemed at least to be a worthy successor to the spc900. More resolution and maybe - i cant be sure - similar colour quality (the xbox is not the most colourfull webcam).

I think as a replacement in the absence of another philips it would be much better than the xbox - I do like the xbox, it was my first mod but have to admit to its limitations once it was side by side with the spc900nc.

But nothing beats modding and trying it for yourself. Would be interested to see what you can find out about it as I was thinking of going down that route myself - buying not testing - preferably modded already

Regards

Aenima

[Astrosurf]

This is good guys. More please!

[tich]

I did modify a Logitech C270 as in daytime use the Logitech did pick out a lot more detail & was a lot sharper. So I pulled it to bits & used the SPC adapter & tried it out. After about 2 hours cursing I did get a pretty good image of Mars. However the slightest adjustment in sharcap & you'd lose all the detail. I did put a post on here earlier in the year & after some searching have found it.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/141373-has-anyone-modified-a-logitech-c270/

[russellhq]

I would give the Playstation Eye camera for the PS3 a shot, you can get them off ebay for about a tenner.

They will do 60fps uncompressed (possibly 75) and up to 10s exposures without the need to mod.

I'm currently playing with one as a guide cam, clouds permitting!

You can read the post I made in the link below which outlines the settings I use:

http://stargazerslou...d/#entry1637730

[Astrosurf]

That Playstation Eye camera image of Jupiter is great. I'll have to check it out but I don't know how well I'd convert it as I'm not technical.

[russellhq]

If you can use a screwdriver and glue, then that's all you need to convert it

[Astrosurf]

That doesn't sound too bad! Is this the one?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Playstation-Eye-Camera-EyeCreate/dp/B000W3YQ1Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349191134&sr=8-1

[Astrosurf]

By the way, can it be used with Sharpcap?

[russellhq]

Yeah, that's the one. I've used it with sharpcap and PHD.

[Astrosurf]

I think I'll try that one. Can I pick your brains when I convert it??

[astromerlin]

I would give the Playstation Eye camera for the PS3 a shot, you can get them off ebay for about a tenner.

They will do 60fps uncompressed (possibly 75) and up to 10s exposures without the need to mod.

I'm currently playing with one as a guide cam, clouds permitting!

You can read the post I made in the link below which outlines the settings I use:

http://stargazerslou...d/#entry1637730

Interesting, Is the 60fps and 10s exposure settings available in SharpCap and PHD?

[Aenima]

I think, though could be wrong, that even though the settings allow fast frame rates its not advised due to the compression process that loses some finer detail. The better cams like spc900nc can do more than 10fps but this is still the advised limit for webcams in order to avoid detrimental compression of the avi/footage.

Obviously the higher end imaging cams can do fast frame rates without problems but for your average webcams most sources would recommend 10fps.

Best of luck with your mission

Regards

Aenima

[JamesF]

The problem for the SPC900 is that it only does USB1. I know even 10fps at 640x480 has to be compressed over USB1 (and in fact reading the Linux driver code confirms that). I can't recall whether 5fps at 640x480 is compressed.

Depending on the resolution, if the PS3 camera is USB2 it should be able to run at a higher frame rate than the SPC900. You have to balance the frame rate against the amount of light you can get onto the sensor though. There's no point having a high frame rate if the image is too dim to be useful because the exposure isn't long enough.

James

[Aenima]

Ah, this is interesting as the spc900 still seems a popular cam, though I keep a look out for a newer replacement like astrosurf is. But people who make them seem to have either used lesser chips or the better chips get used in expensive dedicated imaging cams ( -like the sony one in the starshoot imaging types )- meaning its harder to find a bargain webcam that is very good at planetary as companies seem to know if they have a gem in their cameras that people are gonna mass buy for astro use.

Still you mentioned that a usb2 might allow faster fps than spc900, but its still a good planetary cam - would the spc900 be convertable to usb2? I ask this because I dont really know the technical details. Is there newer webcams now that are really a big improvment on it?

Thanks for info, James. :)

Regards

Aenima

[JamesF]

The SPC900 was a happy accident really. A camera that wasn't intended for astro imaging that happened to be pretty good for it and relatively easy to modify as well.

The problem from the point of view of finding an alternative now is that the design goals for producing webcams for use as webcams are completely different from those for producing decent quality astro imaging cameras. You don't have to care that much about image noise if the image is transient as long as it isn't so awful that people notice it. You actually want to automate as much as possible of the control system so people don't have to fiddle with all sorts of options to get a decent picture. Low light sensitivity isn't generally an issue because the cameras are intended to be used in lit rooms.

I've no idea whether it might in theory be possible to convert the SPC900 to USB2. I don't know enough about the electronics to even hazard a guess. Even if it is, I guess you also have to ask if it's possible to do it for significantly less than the cost of something such as the DxK21 cameras.

James

[russellhq]

Interesting, Is the 60fps and 10s exposure settings available in SharpCap and PHD?

Yup, it's a bit fiddly in PHD but once you know what you're doing it's quite simple to work.

Window below shows Sharpcap settings for FPS, you can see it goes upto 75FPS and down to 0.1FPS @ 640x480

In PHD, you select the following type of camera and then the next window you select the PS3 camea:

But in PHD, you don't see the FPS like you do in sharpcap, but from what I've worked out the list is in the reverse order to the list in sharpcap:

[russellhq]

I think, though could be wrong, that even though the settings allow fast frame rates its not advised due to the compression process that loses some finer detail. The better cams like spc900nc can do more than 10fps but this is still the advised limit for webcams in order to avoid detrimental compression of the avi/footage.

Obviously the higher end imaging cams can do fast frame rates without problems but for your average webcams most sources would recommend 10fps.

Best of luck with your mission

Regards

Aenima

The PS3 camera does not compress the images, it's uncompress files you get. That's why my video files are HUGE. I just checked and a 25 second capture was 2GB!

[Aenima]

Oh, right. Wow, thats even more interesting! Definitely worth looking at. Those are huge file sizes, and the jupiter pic was nice too. This may be a good alternative - in absence of your trusty webcam, whichever one is your 1st choice.

Be good to put mod tutorial in new thread.

Regards

Aenima