Sorry to be dull but more first scope angst !

[Matt Davis]

Hi there. Sorry to bore all you officianados but I'm about to get my first scope and I'm stuck. My main aim will be to see decent images of the planets eg enough to be able to resolve the different bands of Jupiter and see its moons, or be able to make out more than the merest smudge of the andromeda galaxy, for example. I have a canon DSLR and would also like to try to get some pictures of those things but i'm confused as to whether i have to have an EQ mount to be able to do so. The scope needs to be portable and I can go up to about £600. Was looking at a Nexstar 5se but wondered if skymaster scopes were better value. Any advice much appreciated and thanks in advance for any help. Cheers.

[NGC 1502]

Hi Matt, welcome to SGL. Many scopes will show good detail on the planets,

but most of us only see an elongated smudge of light when viewing M31 under

light polluted skies. I've seen the main dust lane and a brighter outer area, NGC

206, in a 10" from a dark site. M31 companion M32 is easy, and M110 (NGC 205)

can be seen from my light polluted back garden on a good night.

I don't do astrophotography, but you will at the very least need a good driven EQ

mount. The 5se will find and track objects, but its driven alt-az mount will give field

rotation on long exposures, and the long focal length will not help with a p either.

Hopefully others may chime in on the best £600 worth for a p. The 5se would be

good as a portable visual go-to scope.

HTH, Ed.

[sixela]

What you'd need to do is to figure out whether the "I would like to hook up the DSLR" bit is a secondary consideration or important. DSLR astrophotography is a (very tough) discipline and if you really want to have good images you'll actually dedicate all your hours to it (it will leave very little for obervation), and a scope that's best for that purpose will make you invest first and foremost in a good equatorial mount and that doesn't show you anything more at the eyepiece.

Often it's also actually cheaper to get two scopes, one for photography and one for observation (with the added bonus that if you have an autoguided scope for photography you can actually observe while the scope is taking the subexposures).

If you really want to know whether visual oberation or photography are going to be your main interest, then I'd consider a 150mm f/5 Newt on an EQ5-class mount. If it has a dual speed focuser you can add a 5x Telextender and dabble in webcam photography of the planets too, and it still has decent aperture so you can look at many different things. It's a very good platform to explore things if you're not sure what aspects of the hobby will interest you more than others.

But if that photography bit was just a side interest, I'd familiarise myself with the sky using e.g. a 150mm Dob (cheap) or better 200mm Dob (still cheap compared to anything that's suitable for photography). Even if all it does is teach you some things about the sky and the object you like, it's going to be a good investment even if you turn out to become a photographer later, because you'll have a much better idea about what exactly you'll want to photograph when you do buy your first astrophotography kit (which will determine what thebest platform is). Astrophotography is at least three different disciplines if not more (lunar photographt at different image scales, planetary photography, long exposure wide field deep sky photography, long exposure small object photography,...)

[Rossco72]

Astrophotography on a budget of £600 isn't really going to be possible.

You might be able to do some webcam stuff on the moon and planets, in which case an ALt/Az mount like the one you are looking at is fine.

For DSLR Astrophotography, look at a budget of at least £5k. Mine to date is nearer £10k and still not quite right.

[sixela]

That's a bit elitist, innit?

It's possible to hook up a DSLR to a 150mm f/5 Newt on a CG5 and make some fine images. In our club there are a number of people who've done it (some have moved over to refractors, others have even moved to larger catadioptric scopes to take pictures of really small objects, but none would argue it's "impossible" to take pictures with their original gear).

Are they going to be as good as those ollypenrice gets with his gear? Of course not. But not everyone's ambitions lay there.

But yes, it illustrates why you need to think clearly. If you buy a smaller scope or even a Dob and it makes you save 5% of the value of your ultimate photography gear because your knowledge of things improved, it may have paid for itself.

But rather than just the money, what people underestimate when they want to buy their first scope and say "oh, I have this DSLR lying around so I'd like to take pictures too" is the amount of time that astrophotography seems to drain from the rest of your life (and time is something harder to replace than money).

But if you have a 150mm reflector on an EQ mount at least that leaves you with a fairly useful scope for visual observation if you realise it and give up .

[red dwalf]

with a second hand set up you good have a reasonable start, there`s a cg5 gt mount for £350 in the for sale section on this site, hold a fair bit of weight, track well, can be auto guided.

there was also a 200 newtonian for £150 which gives good aperature for visual, f5 for imaging, not the best imaging set up but a good start for under you budget, i sold a cg 5 gt for £300 so prices vary.

so as you add to your set up a small apo could be added

[malc-c]

For DSLR Astrophotography, look at a budget of at least £5k. Mine to date is nearer £10k and still not quite right.

At the top end of the scale yes... but with a well aligned setup most scopes in the £600 - £1000 price range will provide a decent platform for astro-photography.

Minimum spec IMO is an EQ-5 driven mount, HEQ5 would be better if you intend to bolt on extra guide scopes or a piggyback a DSLR with long lenses.

£800 gets you a driven Explorer 200P on a HEQ5 mount - a good start for astrophotography IMO

[Rossco72]

At the top end of the scale yes... but with a well aligned setup most scopes in the £600 - £1000 price range will provide a decent platform for astro-photography.

Minimum spec IMO is an EQ-5 driven mount, HEQ5 would be better if you intend to bolt on extra guide scopes or a piggyback a DSLR with long lenses.

£800 gets you a driven Explorer 200P on a HEQ5 mount - a good start for astrophotography IMO

The scope is easy, £600 would all go on even the most budget mount. Realistically you want an HEQ5 or EQ6 at the low end, a Tak EM200 or AP Mach1 at the intermediate level or an AP1200 or Paramount at the top level.

DSLR is harder because the cameras are less efficient than CCD Astrocams.

A fast F5 - F7 scope is almost an afterthought.

[malc-c]

Realistically you want an HEQ5 or EQ6 at the low end, a Tak EM200 or AP Mach1 at the intermediate level or an AP1200 or Paramount at the top level.

Seems we agree on that then

£10K gets you 10 Micron GM2000 QCI

....

Widescreen centre have the old POA against the Paramount.. Harrison has it up for £11,740

Your estimate of 15K seems more realistic at that end of the scale

[Vega]

Of course, any £600 scope (with tracking) is up to the job of really nice widefield astrophotography. Its only the DSO stuff that requires the big bucks. I agree tho.. for DSO's a HEQ5 or EQ6 Pro is the way to go. ;-)

[Matt Davis]

Thanks guys - appreciate the input. This is my first scope so I'm trying not to go overboard and portability is a bit of an issue. Will keep thinking adn reading these threads! Cheers again

[Moonshane]

For me the best bet for a first scope would be something like an 8" dob (e.g. Dobsonians - Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian) as this will give you great visual on solar system and also DSOs. I'm no photographer but you can run a webcam through this too for solar system stuff to get your eye in on the photography side of things. I am no photographer but the pic below was with a single shot with a Nikon Coolpix 995 through the eyepiece held in place with an adapter. This was through my 120mm refractor on an alt-az mount so not dissimilar to a dob. It takes practice but you should be able to get similar results I think with a fairly basic set-up.

If you then wish to go down the photography route more seriously then you can either mount the 8" on a suitable mount or retain it for visual while the camera whirrs away on a small refractor on a good mount.

As you will eventually see, no one scope can do everything well.

[Moonshane]

here's a better one with a DSLR on a 10" dob http://stargazerslounge.com/observing-lunar-solar/129068-moon-through-10-dob-sw.html

[NickK]

Thanks guys - appreciate the input. This is my first scope so I'm trying not to go overboard and portability is a bit of an issue. Will keep thinking adn reading these threads! Cheers again

An EQ6 and portability aren't really bed fellows. I'd put the EQ6 somewhere in the 40Kg (inc counterweight). I've had a workout just manhandling the thing!

[Rossco72]

An EQ6 and portability aren't really bed fellows. I'd put the EQ6 somewhere in the 40Kg (inc counterweight). I've had a workout just manhandling the thing!

Nick,

Wait until you try something even bigger!!!

I used to think my EQ6 was big and heavy but the CGE is a monster in comparison. Everything is heavier, the Tripod legs are twice the thickness, the counterweight shaft is huge (and heavy) the counterweight is about the same as the EQ6!!

Cheers

[Herbig]

I went for the HEQ5 pro as a compromise of stability and portability and been really pleased with it but hanker after an NEQ6 or better.

Pete

[Orion_the_Hunter]

Hi Matt, as a relative newbie myself, I'd recommend observing the sky with a telescope, getting used to astronomy, where the constellations are and how everything works.

Then perhaps think about imaging. It is a very complicated and expensive side to the hobby.

An 8" Dobsonian 'scope, for example, will cost under £300 and will show you pretty decent views of loads of things.

Hope this helps

[Pete Presland]

the 2nd hand market is the way forward on a budget i think,i bought a heq5 for £185 and an ed80 for £185 you just have to be patient.

[todd8137]

Astrophotography on a budget of £600 isn't really going to be possible.

You might be able to do some webcam stuff on the moon and planets, in which case an ALt/Az mount like the one you are looking at is fine.

For DSLR Astrophotography, look at a budget of at least £5k. Mine to date is nearer £10k and still not quite right.

i disagree if you have spent that much and have not got it right then theres something wrong ive took pics with a old 300d and 12dob of the great orion neb then not as glosy as some but it did not cost 10 grand and worked out well cost about a grand for me and all my pics have turned out fine (but corel paint prox3 for stacks and touch up helps) you must a bit miffed if 10 grand spent and ya still not happy with it lol