Question on first scope purchase

[Canyouguesswhoitisyet]

Hello fellow Stargazers.

Firstly may I say thank you. I have been "guesting " on this forum for some months now reading up on advice on scopes and all things astronomical.

A little about myself. I am yet another statistic on the "Brain Cox effect" since Stargazing live it re-lit my interest in all that is above me. He is a great guy who I think seems to connect with the public in a very positive way. The show was great and I tried not to let Jonathan Ross ruin it for me. Who's idea was it to put him on there? do the BBC not learn? The guy tries to hijack the show and wants to upstage everyone thinking he is being funny when really he is making a fool of himself. Owns 3 scopes but no clue on how to use them says it all really. in my opinion anyway

I am in my late 30s completely new to astronomy know very little and need to get this bug in or out of my system! All I know is that when I look up on a clear night I just can't get my head around what is up there, why and how.

Time will shortly be something I will not have a lot of as my wife is expecting our first. So while I still have some months of my own left and cash to spare I have decided to take the plunge.

I am looking for a scope that is fairly easy to use with a good affordable aperture that is a bit future proof. Meaning that I can add stuff to it, if I went down the route of (in my case) complete amateur Astro Photography I would have a scope that can cope with that. I have looked at the idea of Dobsonians but feel its just not me, I need a tripod, gadgets and bits and pieces so at least I can pretend that I know what I am doing :-)

After much reading I have come to the conclusion that the Skywatcher 130P EQ2 is the route for me to go. That is until last night when I started to look at the 130P Supertrak Auto. I kind of liked the idea that it "Autotraks"and moves by a push of a button, looks less complicated and maybe a little more easier to set up. So I emailed FLO and had a reply back today which was very helpful and kind of answered my question. That is if I got into Photography (and that is a big IF) the mount on the supertrak is not suitable for long exposure due to the way it tracks. The advise was very informative and I have to say I am impressed with Martin he could have just told me to buy the Supertrak as it costs more hence a bigger sale. However he said that in his own opinion the 130P EQ2 could be better for the future proofing and I could always add a motor at a later stage.

So as long winded as I have made this post my question must be, if you where in my shoes and wanted something fairly easy to set up and use quickly but challenging enough to force you to learn more about astronomy, would you be choosing the same scope? I know everyone is different and I guess that's why I am asking to see if there are any other ways to go that I have not really considered. Or if the Supertrak is a good option after all.

The plan would be to use mainly in the garden, so I would store in my shed so in theory setup would not be that time consuming, just bring it out put in the same spot as last time and start observing, book in one hand , crying baby in the other! ;-)

Thanks in advance for anyone who would take the time to reply to my thread.

[great_bear]

That is if I got into Photography (and that is a big IF) the mount on the supertrak is not suitable for long exposure due to the way it tracks.

Well yes - that's may be true, but the EQ2 isn't suitable for long exposure photography either - it's too wobbly.

Unfortunately, it's not commonly understood that you can't easilly "futureproof" a convenient visual rig for astrophotography later - since a setup that's "just right" for both doesn't really exist unfortunately. If you really think you'll be getting into astrophotography, then - in terms of setups - the advice would be: "Plan to buy two. You will anyway..."

I can't imagine being without an auto-tracking scope - be it an EQ with motor, or a SuperTrak. The SupaTrak is nice, but the lack of free movement can feel restrictive - it's a bit "Etch-a-Sketch" nudging it up/down/left/right with the arrow keys. An EQ mount on the other hand, you can just swing the scope freely to wherever you want to go, and then just clamp it down and turn on the motor to track. Buy the motor at the outset I'd say.

In terms of setup difficulty, they're the about same: SuperTrak: Point north and level, EQ: Point at polaris. Not much in it (you don't need precision polar alignment for visual use.)

There's not much in it in terms of choice; it's a "gut feel" thing. I think you might prefer the EQ mount - but the EQ2 is a bit wobbly (will FLO offer you a good deal with the EQ3-2 mount instead?) The SupaTrak mount is sturdier than an EQ2.

You might also want to budget for an extra eyepiece or two.

[mikeknowle]

Well I'm just buying a Dobsonian with the intention of using for visual .... ultra-quick set-up. I already have goto scopes & cameras etc. but just carting it all all outside, aligning for photography etc. takes a good 30mins+ before I can start. So you can quickly end up achieving little else except getting fed-up.

That's why I'm building a permanent set-up for the photography and buying a siimple scope for visual. Then I have a nice choice, depending what I want to do that evening and how much time I have.

So my 2p-worth would be: buy the right scope for visual and focus on that first without worrying about photography. Then later, as you explore the limits of the scope and if the itch is still there....start looking at photography with your new level of experience. The kit (& skill) needed for photography can be much more than visual...so save the pennies now and spend wisely later. A lot of people make the transition by using webcams (Philips Toucam is the most well-known route).....so you can start dabbling in that area for only £50! I did with a home-made webcam and an old camera. The results were stunning (to me....).

(Just as a guide......I now want to do better photography/spectroscopy and am spending £1500 on a rock solid mount bolted to 1m3 of concrete. My £1800 Meade on a field tripod is barely adequate....but I've already reached the limits of what it can realistically do).

[Canyouguesswhoitisyet]

Well yes - that's may be true, but the EQ2 isn't suitable for long exposure photography either - it's too wobbly.

Unfortunately, it's not commonly understood that you can't easilly "futureproof" a convenient visual rig for astrophotography later - since a setup that's "just right" for both doesn't really exist unfortunately. If you really think you'll be getting into astrophotography, then - in terms of setups - the advice would be: "Plan to buy two. You will anyway..."

I can't imagine being without an auto-tracking scope - be it an EQ with motor, or a SuperTrak. The SupaTrak is nice, but the lack of free movement can feel restrictive - it's a bit "Etch-a-Sketch" nudging it up/down/left/right with the arrow keys. An EQ mount on the other hand, you can just swing the scope freely to wherever you want to go, and then just clamp it down and turn on the motor to track. Buy the motor at the outset I'd say.

In terms of setup difficulty, they're the about same: SuperTrak: Point north and level, EQ: Point at polaris. Not much in it (you don't need precision polar alignment for visual use.)

There's not much in it in terms of choice; it's a "gut feel" thing. I think you might prefer the EQ mount - but the EQ2 is a bit wobbly (will FLO offer you a good deal with the EQ3-2 mount instead?) The SupaTrak mount is sturdier than an EQ2.

You might also want to budget for an extra eyepiece or two.

Thanks great Bear, very informative. I really like your terminology "a bit etch-a-sketchy" Found it very amusing. I think your right though. I done a bit more research today on this forum and internet, A few other people had said that after buying the Supertrak auto that within a few weeks they wish they had got the EQ2 for the reasons you state.

I now plan to buy the 130P EQ2 I take your point about it being wobbly but I dont want to go too mad on buying the best possible kit before I have started to learn the basics. The money I save on buying this against the Supertrak I can put towards a light pollution filter that I think is essential and in the next month or so a few better eyepieces.

In time if I take to the hobby I will buy the motor they seem cheap enough.

Thanks for your advise it has helped me to choose.

[Canyouguesswhoitisyet]

Well I'm just buying a Dobsonian with the intention of using for visual .... ultra-quick set-up. I already have goto scopes & cameras etc. but just carting it all all outside, aligning for photography etc. takes a good 30mins+ before I can start. So you can quickly end up achieving little else except getting fed-up.

That's why I'm building a permanent set-up for the photography and buying a siimple scope for visual. Then I have a nice choice, depending what I want to do that evening and how much time I have.

So my 2p-worth would be: buy the right scope for visual and focus on that first without worrying about photography. Then later, as you explore the limits of the scope and if the itch is still there....start looking at photography with your new level of experience. The kit (& skill) needed for photography can be much more than visual...so save the pennies now and spend wisely later. A lot of people make the transition by using webcams (Philips Toucam is the most well-known route).....so you can start dabbling in that area for only £50! I did with a home-made webcam and an old camera. The results were stunning (to me....).

(Just as a guide......I now want to do better photography/spectroscopy and am spending £1500 on a rock solid mount bolted to 1m3 of concrete. My £1800 Meade on a field tripod is barely adequate....but I've already reached the limits of what it can realistically do).

Thanks to you also Mikeknowle. Your right in what you say. Concentrate on visual. I am trying to run before I can walk I think. With a little one on the way I dont think I will have much time for photography in any case. Well not for some years.

Sounds like you have some nice kit there too. You must get some nice dark skies over there in Knowle / Solihull. I know the place well as its where the wife works.

[Ronseal]

Have you got a pair of Bino's?? I not try getting a pair of cheap 10x50's or 15x70's either new or s/hand - you can learn the night sky, they're very "grab and go" and alot easier than getting into a scope first.

Not wanting to put you off, get some aswell as your scope, I had some for a year before splashing out on the scope, they really whetted my appetite & I still like using them, switching from bino's to scope all the time.

Chris

[Trull]

The best scope is the one you use...I while ago I thought I'd get a nice wide dob to feast my eyes through, then if I was mad enough get into astrophotography then invest in an imaging setup. And that's pretty much how it happened. But I'd now add that many Astro Socs have loan scopes or meet with a bunch of scopes. So you can try before you buy. Usually for the price of some cookies :-)

[E621Keith]

I agree with the others on concentrating on visual. Astrophotography is expensive and place a lot of demand on the mount.

If you aspire to do astrophotography, I'd suggest spending a little bit more on a EQ3-2 or a EQ5 rather than EQ2. While neither are good for long exposure, if you upgrade them with dual axis drive, they are good enough for imaging planets.

[Canyouguesswhoitisyet]

Ronseal. (Does exactly what is says on the tin)

Yeah I do have an old pair of 50x10s and they have been useful. I have kind of learnt a bit about the sky with them. Though I have probably learnt more looking at stellarium to be honest. I take you point though.

I just have the urge to buy a scope now to see whether or not I will take to the hobby. I was very close to winning a 114P Skywatcher on Ebay the other week and it is the cheaper option still to buy that model. But I have read on here a 1000 times that aperture is king!

Thanks for your reply

[Ronseal]

Ronseal. (Does exactly what is says on the tin)

Yeah I do have an old pair of 50x10s and they have been useful. I have kind of learnt a bit about the sky with them. Though I have probably learnt more looking at stellarium to be honest. I take you point though.

I just have the urge to buy a scope now to see whether or not I will take to the hobby. I was very close to winning a 114P Skywatcher on Ebay the other week and it is the cheaper option still to buy that model. But I have read on here a 1000 times that aperture is king!

Thanks for your reply

Just thought I'd ask, i've done exactly the same with binos & stellarium and the odd book (just got Turn Left at Orion & quite good to give you specific DSo's to look at on a session), and then splashed out on the scope!

Go for it!! (i got a s/hand scope on the for sale section, some pop up quite often) but as everyone says on here, aperature, aperature, aperature!

Chris

[smudgeball]

Hi

I agree with Keith

Concentrate on visual.

I was considering astrophotography straight off, but it depends on your expectations and I also think how much time you have.

I'm slowly learning the night sky and it's great fun.

And yes I do attach my webcam or EOS 40D but just for some live images.

Astrophotography guys are dedicated people with some great kit.

(yes I know you can get great images without great kit, but expectations are the key to what you want to achieve)

Just my two peneth

Regards

Neil

[sooren]

Buy a Meade lightswitch 6 or 8 inch. you will be looking at deep sky objects and galaxies within 20 minutes of opening the box. It all very teccy and gadgety.

I have the 8" and love it. Never used a scope before.

Regards

Paul

[Canyouguesswhoitisyet]

Thanks guys.

I think judging by the weather here I am going to have to take up water sports instead. Awful rain :-(

What makes it worse on a cloudy rainy night is that you can see just how bad the light pollution is around here.

[Canyouguesswhoitisyet]

Buy a Meade lightswitch 6 or 8 inch. you will be looking at deep sky objects and galaxies within 20 minutes of opening the box. It all very teccy and gadgety.

I have the 8" and love it. Never used a scope before.

Regards

Paul

If only I had that kind of cash to kick off the hobby. Looks a lovely bit of kit though ;-)

[JKB]

Skywatcher 150p with EQ3/2 lovely scope and easy to set up. I'm fairly new to this too and have seen more than I could of imagined with it.

Also enjoy 'looking' at the sky not relying on a computer to do it for you.

Good luck and enjoy

[malc-c]

To the original poster.

What's your budget ?

Looking at the models you've talked about I'm guessing its around £190 - £200. If you can nudge that by another £50 you could get the 150P on and EQ3-2 mount which would be a lot more stable and grasp around 30% more light than a 130P. From all accounts (looking at the post on this forum) it's a good all rounder, providing excellent viewing visually and by adding the additional drives (something you can do at a later date) is good for entry level asrophotography (browse the forum and I'm sure you will find some of the images taken through the 150P).

With this hobby there is no ceiling as to what you can spend to be future proof. For me I wanted a decent aperture, 6 to 8", I wanted something that I could control remotely should my age prevent me from spending hours at the eyepiece (I'm nearly 50 but suffer from a few health issues which might get worse as I get older). I didn't want to be looking at replacing the scope in 2, 5, or 20 years time. I also wanted something that had a goto computer to help me learn the sky. - I knew that for a scope in that would fit the bill I had to budget a between £600 and £900. I ended up with an Explorer 200P EQ-5 goto mount, as I don't see myself going down the route of serious astro-imaging using guide scopes and auto-guiding cameras, and the 200P on an HEQ5 was outside my budget.

The point I'm trying to make is that you have several options. Buy something now that you can use to test the water, see how you get on, and then find is very limiting and you need to replace it with a much better scope a few months after purchase. Or up you budget and purchase something that is going to cater for your needs, at least for the next few years, and thus works out cheaper in the long run.

[Canyouguesswhoitisyet]

Malc-C

Thanks, you have my budget correct. I do like the idea of the 150p but I do really need to make sure I do not get carried away with it all. Its been hard enough persuading my wife that this is a good idea to start with :-) I already have a few hobbies like Guitars and a big tropical fish tank.

I think I just want some kit that will please me enough to keep an interest but decent enough to dangle a carrot and make me want for more! I am starting to think that the 130P EQ2 is the way for me to go. It seems many people have got them and praise them.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, your all a nice friendly bunch on here. Or is it just because its pouring with rain tonight so everyone is inside :-)

[great_bear]

Buy a Meade lightswitch 6 or 8 inch.

Have you ever tried explaining to a lady expecting your first child, that an 8 inch scope is a good investment for your future?

(although in fairness to my own wife, she did actually say "yes" at the time)

start observing, book in one hand , crying baby in the other! ;-)

Ah - I can tell this is your first! :-) it's WAY too cold (even in summer) to have the baby with you unless you've pre-planned what they'll be wearing and you've got a largish well-insulated pram like a bugaboo (which actually costs a lot more than a good telescope for some reason...)

The reality is that your other hand won't be holding the baby, but the baby-intercom. So all the neighbours see is a dodgy-looking man in a back garden whispering "Shhhhhh!!! go back to sleep darling" into a walkie-talkie...

[astropete]

hi and welcome to a fantastic hobbie. for me i would suggest the sky watcher 127mm super auto track. (my picture avi) for a modest price (£300 +) its a fantastic "first" scope. easy to use, carry, and set up. if you wish to align then youn can, i dont and once i have the object in view i just press slow drive, and the object stays in alignment for a few mins. failing that a go to mount may be of use, but alas there you do have to set the thing up, wasting time. as said a good sky watcher 127mm super auto track (for me) is/was a good purchase.

[malc-c]

Malc-C

Thanks, you have my budget correct. I do like the idea of the 150p but I do really need to make sure I do not get carried away with it all.

I think I just want some kit that will please me enough to keep an interest but decent enough to dangle a carrot and make me want for more! I am starting to think that the 130P EQ2 is the way for me to go. It seems many people have got them and praise them.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, your all a nice friendly bunch on here. Or is it just because its pouring with rain tonight so everyone is inside :-)

That's fair comment, but personally I would still stretch that £200 budget by a further £50 and get the 150P EQ3-2. For that extra £50 you get a lot more scope for your money, something that is less prone to wobble and put you off the hobby and thus keep your interest, but also should it wain and you find yourself in a position having to sell it, will have more chance of moving it on and get a higher price than the 130P. - Still this is juts my view, and everyones views are different, but at the end of the day it's your decision and if you do opt for the 130p then I'll respect that... but just let me tempt you one last time

- Nice scope...

[Canyouguesswhoitisyet]

Have you ever tried explaining to a lady expecting your first child, that an 8 inch scope is a good investment for your future?

(although in fairness to my own wife, she did actually say "yes" at the time)

Ah - I can tell this is your first! :-) it's WAY too cold (even in summer) to have the baby with you unless you've pre-planned what they'll be wearing and you've got a largish well-insulated pram like a bugaboo (which actually costs a lot more than a good telescope for some reason...)

The reality is that your other hand won't be holding the baby, but the baby-intercom. So all the neighbours see is a dodgy-looking man in a back garden whispering "Shhhhhh!!! go back to sleep darling" into a walkie-talkie...

Nice one Great Bear! I am still laughing at that as I type :-)

Yep its my first, well spotted!

I can just see myself now with the baby monitor, what a thought..... I'm gonna look a right plank!

Thanks for planting that image in my head.....

[great_bear]

I'd agree with Malcom - and would also add that the PL version of this scope is the one to go for. Since the difference is as low as £50 it's a no-brainer - it's much more scope for the money.

- but go for the PL version.

[mikeknowle]

You must get some nice dark skies over there in Knowle / Solihull. I know the place well as its where the wife works.

Apart from the big orange thing in the sky to the North......that'll be Birmingham then...

[malc-c]

I'd agree with Malcom - and would also add that the PL version of this scope is the one to go for. Since the difference is as low as £50 it's a no-brainer - it's much more scope for the money.

- but go for the PL version.

True... same price and around half a meter more tube

[Canyouguesswhoitisyet]

Malc- c

Are you good at fishing? because your very good with a lure. It is tempting. Thing is after this you will tell me that the 200 is the way to go :-)

Ideally a second hand one to come well in on budget would be a dream. For now though I guess I will consider saving a few more pennies. I do have to think about the baby on the way though...