Finding objects

[sammy1404]

Hi guys

As a few of you know i bought a skywatcher skyliner 250px dob recently. I have been putting it to good use but of course the weather hasnt been great. Last night however was simply amazing, perfectly clear no moon to ruin deep sky stuff. I saw a few new things but accidently well one was an accidental galaxy i think the other was sort of on purpose because i saw a smudge in Gemini and then found a smaller smudge in that smudge (the first smudge was just faint stars) which was a very large cluster, with sooo many stars in it.

Anyway the point in this thread is that i am struggling. I can find some objects with ease, m31, some of the planets (jupiter, saturn and venus), the orion nebula, the pleides and tbh thats about it. There are so many things i want to see! Im desperately tryiing to find the crab nebula, the horsehead nebula, a few other nebula would be nice but they are the main ones. Id like to find more galaxies aswell.

But when trying to find those 2 nebula i dont seem to have any luck. I am certain that i am looking in the right regions but i just cant find them. Horsehead is just to the left of orions belt? and the Crab is above the bottom left star of Taurus (not sure the name of the star, it is the first star of the constellation up from Betelgeuse)? So am i doing something wrong or what?

Please help because I am realling loving this hobby but im getting not bored but irritated at looking at the same objects everyday. I actually resorted to just randomly pushing the telescope around the skies hoping to find something!

Thanks

Sammy

[jgs001]

Sammy, do you have a copy of Turn left at Orion, that's a great book to have and really helps finding things...

I've never looked through a scope that size, but I did manage to "see" the Crab, it's very small and showed merely as a faint gray smudge. The only reason I knew it wasn't something in my eye or on the optics, was tapping the scope and seeing it move with the stars around it. You also need to use averted vision to see it. That's something that comes with practice, but when you've got it, you're away. I went through much the same thing with M81 and M82, I spent 3 or 4 nights, several hours each, hunting for them, but couldn't find them, then something clicked and I was away.

As for the Horsehead, I'm not sure that's a visual target in anything smaller than a really monster of a scope.

[kniclander]

If you're skies aren't really dark then you'll struggle to see galaxies at all. Turn left at orion is defo the best starter book out there but you also can't beat a decent star atlas. Personally, I also found a correct image right angled finderscope made a huge difference too. Like anything, starhopping is a skill and it takes time. Something like the crab, you'll see it in almost any skies in your scope (i have the same scope and awful skies) but it took me a good hour to find it first time around. filters help with some dso's (but not galaxies). be patient.

if all else fails, the moon is quite easy for me to find on a good night

[valleyman]

Look in the dobs forum at the mods that can be done with Ra circles and a Wixey (available from FLO).

I modded my 200p and hit the target everytime usin Stellirium for the |RA/DEC coordnates.

In fct you just need the Wixey for setting the Dec and turn in RA until the target comes into view.

[sammy1404]

thanks guys, no i dont have turn left at orion. Forgot to mention i have Stellarium though lol. Im out in the countryside so i get pretty good skies apart from to the south which is towards the city there is very very slight pollution.

I guess ill just have to keep trying Oh do you guys think i should get some filters, im going to get a moon filter so i dont get blinded again but i was wandering about other filters like for planets etc. I was looking at jupiter yesterday through my 6mm, it was clear and i could see the band easily but it was quite bright, will a filter help? Also i want to get a solar filter but i have no idea at all about how to view the sun, do i just get a filter shove it over the end of the scope and then look through the EP?

thanks again guys

[jgs001]

A moon filter is probably a good idea. There are threads on here about the various filters and their use and effectiveness, I think they're stickeys in the eqpt boards.

As for Solar, I'd suggest taking a great deal of care and probably worth posting a specific question regarding how to view the sun safely in the Observing - Solar section. I can't really advise on the best way to do Solar with your Dob, Baader Solar film (visual, I think there's 2 types) is a must though.

[perrin6]

Hello Sammy,

Dont expect to find the horsehead - it's very difficult to see and you need really dark skies to see it - I've never seen it through a scope yet (although I must admit I have'nt tried very often). Of course you should give it a try - you never know !

I sometimes have a problem finding the crab nebula too and I've been looking at it for years.

The trick with finding things is to learn to notice the pattern of stars that lies between a bright star and the object. Then you can find the bright star in your finder, pop in a low power eyepiece and sweep across to that pattern while remembering where the object is in relation to the pattern. I look for triangular groups of stars mostly.

Tips:-

Use a map that shows stars at least as faint as 8th magnitude as these are about the faintest most finderscopes will show easily.

Learn how wide the field of view is of a) your finder & your lowest power eyepieces.

Find out what magnitude the stars in the pattern are so you have an idea how bright they will look in the eyepiece and whether the finder will show them.

Estimate how far the object is from a bright star and in which direction so you know where to position the scope.

When looking at the map, remember which way is West so you can relate the map view to the eyepiece view. (In the eyepiece stars always appear to move Westwards due to the Eaths rotation)

Sometimes map views look different from the view through the eyepiece. This is often because the map either shows only the brighter stars or includes fainter stars that you cant see through your scope. Sometimes there may be an object such as an asteroid or a variable star that makes the scope view look different from the map.

[cotterless45]

Get a Telrad finder and there's plenty Telrad maps on the net that you can download. I'd be lost without it. You'll soon get used to where things are.

I couldn't find anything with aa optical finder. For an aide get a pair of Helios 7x50 binoculars. You can pick up most things and they're good for grab and go between the clouds.

[JamesF]

Not being able to find objects is very frustrating. I've very rapidly come to the conclusion that the way to avoid the frustration is good planning. Pick the objects you're going to look for ahead of time and look them up in Stellarium or Cartes du Ciel, work out paths to them from stars you know you can find and perhaps even print out bits of the views so you can follow them once you're at the scope and relate surrounding stars to where you're looking (or use star charts). A couple of times I've found that I've skipped over something I was looking for because I didn't realise that particular smudge was what I was looking for. It's always easier to find something when you know what it looks like through your scope

Binoculars help, too, I think. I find it easier to relate what I see through them to what I see naked-eye and once I've learned my way around what I'm looking for then I go back to the scope and try to repeat the process.

Also I think you have to accept that some days you'll not be able to find some objects purely because the seeing isn't right. If you've spent an hour looking for something and not finding it, accept that, move on to something else and give yourself a break.

Come back later if you still feel inclined. It's not like it won't be there tomorrow. Or the next clear night. Probably

Turn Left at Orion rates things by how easy or hard they are to see. Perhaps it's worth making up a list from there and building some confidence by finding the easier ones first?

(FWIW, I spent *ages* last night looking for M37 having found M36 and M38. Or so I thought. It was only after several hours that I realised I'd misidentified the first one I'd found, had therefore already found M37 and should actually have been looking for M38 on the other side of M36. That was despite being able to find all three in the binoculars, too.

James

[JamesF]

The trick with finding things is to learn to notice the pattern of stars that lies between a bright star and the object. Then you can find the bright star in your finder, pop in a low power eyepiece and sweep across to that pattern while remembering where the object is in relation to the pattern. I look for triangular groups of stars mostly.

I also meant to mention finding patterns in the stars you use for star-hopping. I'll look at a group of stars and think for example, "this looks like a catapult, so I want to go from star X that I can find, up the handle and around the four stars in the left 'leg' to the object I want to find"; or "these stars make an arrow shape, and I want to go from where I am to the tail of the arrow".

James

[mark geldart]

I bought Turn left at Orion and Illustrated Guide to Astonomical Wonders. Both great books...

[JamesF]

I also have IGAW now. It's not quite as "beginner-friendly" as TLAO. An excellent book though.

James