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Refractor procrastination....

hozepipe

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hozepipe

hozepipe

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Hi

I'm new on the forum so hello to all.

I hope you can help me as I'm in a mess of desicion making for my next purchase - a wide-field refractor.

I have an original ETX 90 RA and the steel field tripod which can be quite good (in fact with good seeing I've been quite stunned at some views), but I've got the urge to get a wider view and these Chinese apos and semi apos look very apealing for the price, but which one to get?

I've got a list of the following 80mm scopes and wondered what opinions of them are:

Scopos Observer 80 - £176 OTA at the moment

Antares Sentinel - £249 (or 319 on a small EQ mount+tripod)

Moving up in price there's:

WO ZS80 semi apo £469 with 2" dialec diag

Moonfish 80mm semi-apo £395

THEN there's this which looks really good value:

Scopos TL805 triplet APO + dual speed focuser + W.O. 2" diag + 20mm, 6.3mm ep and vixen bracket for £499!

Any others I should be looking at?

The things that I appreciate in a scope (from the little experiance I have) are the following (bearing in mind I do visual observing not photography):

Very precice focusing with the possibility of razor sharp images seeing permitting (is the standard crayford sufficient or do I need a 1:10 fine focuser?)

Not too much CA - I don't really know how much too much is and what will bother me as I haven't used a refractor much apart from a cheap 70mm Synta from Lidl (now leant to a freind). I'm a fussy [removed word] so I assume I would appreciate a proper APO...

High quality fit and finish - no wobbly bits (ie ETX!) - I would like to have 'camera feel' from a scope.

High rigidity, or the possiblity of it with a suitable mount.

Ability to use 2" EPs.

I know that I haven't mentioned a mount, but I will make do for the time being maybe get something like a Vixen porta mount (£150) or similar, and then upgrade later.

Is it wise to dive in with an APO or better to test the waters with something like the Scopos Observer (seems amazing value at the moment).

Again any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!

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geppetto

geppetto

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Welcome to the forum... :D

Just my small input..

If you have an ETX 90, I can understand that you want a wider field option but for

visual use, the scopes you have listed wont show you a lot more.

If it were me. I'd keep the 90 and buy a large aperture DOB reflector (12" if you can afford it)

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hozepipe

hozepipe

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Hi geppetto.

Thanks for the info, that's useful to know. I do like the ETX 90 optics but the mount is awful. Perhaps it would be better for me to not buy an scope but invest in a really good mount for the ETX OTA... hmmm Thing is there are problems with the ETX - the flip mirror clips the edge of the field at lower powers and the focusing is too coarse for my liking, so I need a new scope whatever I think. I don't think I'm after 'more' than the ETX can provide just a better ergonomics - the realities of prolonged visulal observing make the equipment quality and engineering (all aspects) very important IMHO.

I was going to buy an ETX 125 for the larger aperture but have been seduced by these small, what seem like nicely engineered refractors.

I don't want a big scope - grab and go is the key. I used to have an 8" Newtonion on a SuperPolaris EQ mount and it was huge - i hated it and almost never used it as a result. I don't think a dob would suit me either in that respect.

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John

John

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I reckon you should be considering the ED80 (Skywatcher or Orion). It's a proper APO and will give you as nice, if not a little better, views than your ETX90 (no central obstruction). I've owned 2 of these and and they are great optically and acceptable buildwise. They always seem to suprise you with their performance and at f7.5 are reasonably wide field and easily portable on the right mount (ie: NOT an HEQ5 like I had !). Also virtually no cool down times.

Just worth considering I think.

John

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hozepipe

hozepipe

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I reckon you should be considering the ED80 (Skywatcher or Orion). It's a proper APO and will give you as nice, if not a little better, views than your ETX90 (no central obstruction). I've owned 2 of these and and they are great optically and acceptable buildwise. They always seem to suprise you with their performance and at f7.5 are reasonably wide field and easily portable on the right mount (ie: NOT an HEQ5 like I had !). Also virtually no cool down times.

Yes I did almost add this to the list but wasn't really sure - I didn't know it was a full APO.The thing that bothers me is it doesn't look quite as well built. What is the focuser like, do you have fine control and is there much backlash? I also notice that the focuser doesn't rotate (at least it looks that way?).

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Greg

Greg

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I have and ED80 Pro as do other members of the forum...

There is no focus backlash.

I have never found the need for a rotatable focuser, less to move around whilst imaging the better.

Build quality is fine as long as you use it within it's operational parameters.

I am more than happy with the visual and photographic results with mine.. :D

Greg...

PS...Welcome to the forum. :)

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GordonCopestake

GordonCopestake

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Actually the Synta ED80 (Skywatcher/Orion) has the best optics of all the scopes you have mentioned. It uses FPL53 whereas the others use FPL51. If you can live with the larger 100mm diameter tube then go for the ED80, it's cheaper and has better colour correction. The focuser isn't the best but it's more than enough for most purposes

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hozepipe

hozepipe

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Thanks guys - So the ED80 is definitely better optically, which looks like where the money has gone in the design, I'm just a little hesitant with the build quality of the rest of it.

The Scopos TL805 and William Optics ZS80II ED APO seems closest optically, or the Moonfish 80mm APO too, but all three look substantially better made and have nice dual speed focusers etc. They LOOK like quality scope hardware-wise, but I know that doesn't always mean a lot...

Can anyone quantify the difference optically between these and the ED80 and whether the other scopes I mention work as well as they look?

EDIT:

Just found that the Vixen Porta ED80Sf has the same optics as the ED80 but looks better made. It also comes with the porta mount which I was considering buying anyway. It's £625. Is this a better choice than the ED80 mechanically?

thanks!

And thanks for the focuser upgrade link, looks expensive though!

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John

John

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I'm just a little hesitant with the build quality of the rest of it.

Granted, it isn't CNC machined like the Williams Optics or Stellarvues (and their clones) but I have never come across a faulty ED80.

I have owned 3 ED scopes - 2 ED80's and an ED100. I've now got a William Optics Megrez 90 APO which uses FPL53 in it's lens design. Optically there is virtually nothing to choose between the ED's and the WO scope - I tend to think of it as an ED90 in it's Savile Row suit !. I suppose the difference in finish is like that between a Vauxhall and a Mercedes - the former is pefectly functional and does the job well wheras the latter has more finesse and attention to detail. I would not describe an ED scope as in any way tatty, fragile or crude - they are solidly build and will last a long time - plus whatever slight weaknesses there are can be "tweaked" to improve them.

Frankly if you are looking for an 80mm class refractor you would be crazy not to have an ED80 among your top contenders. You only have to read all the reports on the web to see how highly regarded they are -I've yet to read a negative one.

EDIT

The Vixen Porta ED80Sf - same optics - depends whether the build quality (still not in the Tele Vue / WO class) is worth £300 to you....

John.

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hozepipe

hozepipe

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OK you're all convincing me about the ED80 but...

I've now get a reply from a dealer to the same question (I of course will not disclose the names) - they carry the three scopes I mention and say that both the Scopos and the WO ZS80II ED are way ahead of the ED80 in terms of finish and mechanical quality and that the ED80 does have decent optics, but so do the other two. They then go on to say that if I am particularly fussy about the mechanics forget the ED80 as it is some way behind the Scopos and WO products.

Don't want to cause controversy here but that's a very different picture.

My ETX has very good optics but the engineering is poor - and that makes a big difference to the usability of the scope, it's not pleasant to use and that's as important to me as the optics. Maybe I should try to find a shop that's close to where I am and go and take a look and see for myself how the ED80 feels.

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GordonCopestake

GordonCopestake

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Yup, everything the dealer has told you is correct. The ZS models use tubes made by Long Perng and are much nicer than the synta tubes. Although if you are in no hurry Synta are releasing the Equinox range of 'scopes which have the ED80 optics in a Long Perng tube. The best of all worlds.

At the end of the day it depends on if you want to look AT a telescope or look THROUGH it.

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John

John

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Maybe I should try to find a shop that's close to where I am and go and take a look and see for myself how the ED80 feels.

I think that would be a very good idea - it's so difficult to describe these things - there's nothing like "kicking the tyres" as they say...

John.

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iancandler

iancandler

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WO ZS80 semi apo £469 with 2" dialec diag

Actualy if you check Ian kings website you can pick up the newer ZS80 ED11 Apo for £469 inc the 2" diagonal not the older zs80 semi apo, or its £389 for the OTA alone.

.

I use the sentinal and can recomend it, but use a williamoptics VR-1 2 " filter with it, it really boosts the performance colour correction wise. It also accepts all williams optics goodies in the way of upgrades including the apo lens set for later upgrades.

I havent used an ED80 but wouldnt pay orions prices for basicly the same scope in white. You can pick the porta mount up on its own for around £195 and just add the tube that you prefer.

Definatly go for the 2 speed focuser option on any scope you get, it makes a difference..

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Brass n glass

Brass n glass

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I had a Vixen achromatic from 1997 to 2003 and it was solidly made and performed very well. I believe the latest range of Japanese-made Vixens have outstanding optics, but some of the cheaper ones designated Sf are said to be the same as the Chinese Skywatcher equivalents with flip mirrors added.

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