Starter Telescope

[lynscp]

Hi there, for christmas my dad would like a telescope, I've been looking around and so far the Sky - Watcher Capricorn - 70 comes within budget. I've been trying to look for reviews on it but these seem hard to come by. Just wondered if anyone had any advise on this particular model or if they would recommend a better starter set up? He would mainly be using it to view the moon craters, jupiter and it's moons and some far away stars/galaxies.

[Mikea]

Welcome lynscp. Never actually come across that scope, but FLO have a similar sized refractor (Mercury 705). Never looked through one but give FLO a call and they will see you right.

I am not connected with FLO in any way - just a satisfied customer!!!

[E621Keith]

If you are willing to pay £25 more, the £125 Skywatcher Heritage 130p dob will be much better.

I have no experience with the Capricon 70 so I can't comment on the optical quality. However, I think it will be hard to see any galaxy or nebula with a 70mm f11.5 telescope. The EQ1 mount is very flimsy, I have seen more broken one than functional one.

If £125 is too much, then I'd recommend getting a pair of binocular instead. I don't know if FLO is still doing that special deal on the Celestron Skymaster 15x70 for £50 (FLO is blocked at my uni for some reason), but it will be a much better buy than that a 70mm refractor on a eq1.

[russ]

Celestron Skymaster 15x70 for £50 (FLO is blocked at my uni for some reason), but it will be a much better buy than that a 70mm refractor on a eq1.

Not entirely sure about that as he is looking to do this:

He would mainly be using it to view the moon craters, jupiter and it's moons

Which would make the binoculars less than satisfying, even compared to a 70mm refractor. But they will come into their own with scanning the heavens and picking up the brighter deepsky objects.

But the budget will mean a compromise. Have to decide what that will be. It could be that he will be perfectly happy with low power views of the moon and just watching the Jovian moons change their nightly positions. But if he wants to see Saturn's rings, Jupiter's equatorial belts or higher power views of the moon, he will need a telescope.

[Wurzil]

one option would be to buy one of the celestron CG-4 mounts for him which are on sale at FLO for £100 and let your dad buy a nice little scope to go on it after xmas.

its a solid piece of kit and a serious bargain - it will go really well with a medium sized refractor (mine is carrying a big 120mm one). its a million times better than the EQ1 and will last for ages.

warren

EDIT - JUST NOTICED THAT THE CG-4 MOUNTS WERE SUCH A BARGAIN THAT HEYVE SOLD OUT. SORRY

[li'l john]

Hi, I've never used the Capricorn 70mm but Sky at Night reviewed it in the November edition and liked it. I have the SW Mercury 705 which I like but should say I've never used another. Sky at Night liked the Mercury as well. I bought it because I was bewildered by all the choice out there and couldn't decide, so I bought it "to get me started", till I know what I want, sort of thing. If I remember correctly the review said the Capricorn was good for the price, I'm sure it has a 900mm focal lenght and will give decent enough views of the Moon and Planets, brighter DSO's etc. Why not ring Sky at Night and buy a backcopy?

[ronin]

The 70 should be enough to see Jupiter, however I doubt that Saturn will be more then a small disk and I doubt that the rings will be visible. Simply needs more magnification.

As to galaxies, some will be visible but as they need magnification and a reasonable level of light collection, all that may be visible is the fact that the object is not a point but has some size. Details will be unobtainable.

The 90mm offering would be better, but I see a fair bit extra in cost. £130.

If he wants a scope then get a scope, not binoculars. Good, and useful, though they are if I wanted a scope and I was handed binoculars I would wonder if their hearing was gone. Or marbles.

The 70 should be OK but it will be very limited in what it can accomplish. Could check the used market, U.K. Astronomy Buy & Sell

Not sure where you are but if lucky someone may be selling something local enough.

I assume that the budget is around the £70 mark as that is what I have seen the 70mm scopes for.

[LukeSkywatcher]

A 70mm scope will not cut the mustard with planets (or much else). The moon will be nice though. A 90mm scope will be pretty good for planets such as Jupiter and Saturn and maybe even Mars. Larger DSO will be ok with the 90mm scope also. Some galaxies will be available but not spectacular.

A 130mm scope (such as the SW Heritage) will be fine for planets,Moon,DSO,Galaxies etc. It really is a good all rounder for the money.

This is just my opinion/experience having used a 70mm,90mm and 130mm scope.

[lynscp]

Thank you for all your replies, they have been very informative and helpful. After looking about some more and reading some reviews I ordered the Skywatcher Explorer 130 from FLO, I hope he likes it for a first starter scope. I can't wait to try it out with him. Also ordered the Observing the deep sky book for him too so he can get some studying done first.

[LukeSkywatcher]

The SW Explorer 130 is a very popular starters scope. It will serve you well.

Just one thought:

Maybe you can contact FLO and upgrade it to the 130P model. The "P" means the mirror is parabolic and is better at gathering light.

[umadog]

It would be most helpful for beginners if people made recommendations based upon what they've experienced and not based on guesswork. I realise the OP has made his choice but some of the misinformation presented to him needs to be gently corrected.

It was said that Saturn's rings will not be visible in a 70 mm telescope. This is plain wrong. Firstly, I've seen them in a 50mm so I can assure you it will be visible at 70 mm. Secondly, a moment of thought is all that is needed to confirm this. A 70 mm telescope is 2.75" across. A rule of thumb is that the maximum magnification a scope will provide is 50x per inch. A 2.75" will therefore give you almost 150x. Saturn's rings are, of course, plainly visible at 50x. Heck, Galileo saw them (just!) with a much inferior telescope.

[Staffy]

I have the Skywatcher Explorer 130. It's a great all-rounder and has given me a lot of pleasure. I'm sure you have chosen well.

[brantuk]

Good choice on the 130 - great little starter scope and ideal at this time of year

[ronin]

It would be most helpful for beginners if people made recommendations based upon what they've experienced and not based on guesswork. I realise the OP has made his choice but some of the misinformation presented to him needs to be gently corrected.

Good point, however I have a 70mm scope.

It is also an achro which would match in general the scope specified.

Still cannot see Saturn as any more then a disk and a small disk at that.

So perhaps occasionally someone is making a statement from direct personel experience.

An Orion XX12i isn't quite a 70mm achro.

[umadog]

ronin, if caused offence I'm sorry. When I read your post I assumed that you simply hadn't tried a 70 mm on Saturn since the rings are very obvious with such a telescope. See: http://www.astronomyhints.com/observing_saturn.html

My post was solely about small refractors and didn't mention my current 12". I don't understand why you brought it up. I first saw Saturn's rings as a 7 year old at 40x through my uncle's 50 mm terrestrial refractor. I never forgot it. All 10 people there that night, including my grandparents, could see the rings. Saturn hung in space sharp and distinct like a jewel.

Here is a simulated view of Saturn through an 80 mm scope (scroll down)

Simulated Telescope Planet Images

From memory, that seems fairly accurate; although I don't remember seeing those colour shades with the small scope. Something is certainly very wrong if you can't see Saturn as obviously resembling the form of that image. What exactly do you see, ronin?

Don't forget that this is what Galileo drew 400 years ago at 30x using a telescope much inferior to your 70 mm and with no proper mount:

www.lettherebenight.org/galileo.html

[LukeSkywatcher]

If i may interject here:

I think it important to distinguish between seeing the rings of Saturn with a 70mm scope and seeing what look like a pair of ears on Saturn with a 70mm scope.

I have observed Saturn with a 70mm scope and i dont consider myself as having seen the rings of Saturn with that 70mm scope. All i saw was the disc of Saturn with a pair or ears. There was no contrast between the planet surface and the rings. However when observed with my 90mm scope, the ring system was plain to see. The Cassini divide was pretty clear too. The contrast between the rings and planet surface was also plan to see.

So if i am assuming correctly, i think what ronin meant was that yes the rings were visible but they looked more like a pair of ears on the planet. That's also my experience with a 70mm scope.

P.S.~~umadog your link with the simulated views of Saturn is pretty accurate in my experience. Its so close in fact that i have posted the same link here on SGL in the past. Mind you the simulated views are based on perfect seeing conditions,collimation etc.

Also dont forget................just how much of the rings you see through any scope depends on how "Open" or Closed" they are at the time of observing. Its been so long since i observed Saturn, but i believe the ring system is opening up very nicely right now. How well you see this depends on the size of your scope.

[umadog]

It's true the ring's angle makes a huge difference, Paul, and it could be that ronin has only seen the rings edge on so far. Still, they're opening up now. I woke up early this morning to have a look. Well worth it. You're right too that the discrepancy may just be semantics. Whatever words you may choose, I know that both myself and others have found the view of Saturn very moving through 50 mm and 63 mm refractors at under 100x. Describing it as "a small disk" doesn't do it justice. "Small disk" would be an apt description for Uranus.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Anyone who has seen Saturn for the first time,this year has not truly seen Saturn. The ring system was edge on up until recently and looked like ears. To truly SEE Saturn you need to see it when the rings are somewhat open (the wider the better).

Although anyone who has seen it in the last few months has said it is a "WOW" moment for them. All i keep thinking is "wait til you see it with the ring system wide open". That really is a "knock your socks off moment".

Saturn is NEVER just a small disc. Even with ears it is impressive.

In my experience................Mars is just a small disc. Uranus would just be a point of light. I've never found it.

[sixela]

So perhaps occasionally someone is making a statement from direct personel[sic] experience.

An Orion XX12i isn't quite a 70mm achro.

If you're assuming that if we own a large scope we've never looked through a smaller one, you're assuming too much. I've looked through many long achro 70mm scopes, and with the right conditions and the right eyepieces (something around 5-8mm) there should be no problem at all seeing Saturn's rings, except when they're simply not visible when they're seen on edge (as happened last year). You should be able to see them this season, though.

[LukeSkywatcher]

and with the right conditions and the right eyepieces (something around 5-8mm) there should be no problem at all seeing Saturn's rings, except when they're simply not visible when they're seen on edge (as happened last year). You should be able to see them this season, though.

Exactly my point above. So can we put this one to bed?. No scope will be great for every celestial object. A 70mm scope is very capable. But because of its smaller aperture it takes conditions to be more favourable then if using a larger scope.

[umadog]

Yes, let's put Saturn to bed, Paul!

I should say, though, that I've only ever seen Uranus is scopes 8" and up. At 150x you can indeed make out that it's a disk and not a point. Not very impressive, I'm afraid. My girlfriend doesn't understand why I look at it all. The smaller refractors probably wouldn't show a disk. A good Mars opposition will provide a disk about half the diameter of what Jupiter is now. So even a very small scope ought show you the polar caps.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Let's do that, Paul.

Methinks we have scared lynscp away. Astro gear is one of the few subjects that we can all agree to disagree because we all use such different gear. There is no right nor wrong answers. The only right answer is that the gear you can afford and use IS the right gear for you.

I could not care less to own a 14" scope simply because i would not be able to use it and it would sit in my house gathering dust. I possibly could not even handle an 8" scope.

The scope for you is the one you can afford and use often and ENJOY using. If that turns out to be a 70mm so be it.

[Mr Spock]

Going back 30+ years I could see the Cassini division with my 60mm Prinz. 6mm Kellner at x150... I also had a 4mm Orthoscopic but the image at x225 was a lot dimmer, so I only used that for doubles.

Sharp image and no CA - wish I still had it