Best astrophotography telescope £500 to spend on scope

[F64]

Hi

after attending the Beginner Astrophotograpy workshop at Bedford last weekend (it was brilliant)i have on its way a second hand Astrotrac. Dont want to go down the big EQ5/6 investment route at mo want to keep things easy enough to get out side and look at take photos of. Already have a very heavy/solid studio manfrotto tripod from my professional photography days. so plan to use my asrotrac on this use the camera and would also like to get a suitable telescope for attaching camera to and mabe piggy backing. Interested in looking and photographing all celestrial objects but with a particular interest in the galaxies. Realise i will be restricted to the weight Astrotrac can cope with 15kg or 33bs. What would you recommend?

[F64]

Hi everyone lots of lookers but no replies:confused:

would really appreciate someones thoughts and advice please:)

thanks

Janine

[dmahon]

Small fast refractor (Skywatcher Equinox 80, William Optics Megrez 72, etc)

[Coco]

The best thing I think you could have done to start imaging was buy an astrotrac, it will give you a cheap yet fabulous entry into wide field astr0 imaging, take a good 200m mm lens for the smaller nebulas and wide angle for super wide field, blast away to your hearts content..

Save your money and keep the astrotrac for a couple of seasons... then buy into something more exotic later..

rather than trying to learn how to guide and image let the astrotrac take care of the guiding and concentrate on the imaging..

Guy

amend:

Astrotracs are better with less than 300mm scopes fitted.. 200mm is about as long as I liked using for 3 minute subs..

[simon84]

I'll totally agree with Guy on that, I started out with the NEQ6/Equinox 80 and then 120 combo's but have now sold all that and only image with my dslr's and lenses on an astrotrac.

Its not that cheap though if you need to buy everything, astrotrac do a pack with a tripod and geared head for £819 and you'd be doing really well to get it cheaper than that seperately. If you already have a decent camera tripod and a couple of good solid heads then you could be onto a winner with it.

You really do need the polar scope though to get a decent alignment, without it its all a bit hit and miss.

I'm using a fairly big lens that goes upto 500mm but test shots show with good alignment I can get over 2 minutes with it. That is pier mounted for that rather than on the tripod.

As for the weight issue, the astrotrac can take 15kg and the recommended payload on an NEQ6 for imaging purposes is 15kg. You can get more than one camera on there or with the new scope head you can mount APO's on there aswell. Have a look in the review section for my Astrotrac Part 2 review to see what I mean.

Otherwise if its just a scope your after then I really like the Equinox 80ED myself. I do miss that scope and with the head attachment totally useable on the astrotrac.

[Beyond_Vision]

I good starting point would be a Williams Optics 66SD or a 72D with a matching field flattener. This will be easy on the mount and give you a fairly wide field of view which will be less onerous on tracking. There is no benefit from mounting a camera piggy back on a scope on the astrotrac as the scope is just dead weight. The camera can be attached to the astrotrac via a ball head tripod mount. In fact it would be better to start using a DSLR and camera lens at short focal length 200mm and lower.

Regards

Kevin

[F64]

Hi guys

thanks so much for your advice it comes with polar scope and battery pack just waiting for guy to get back off holiday and its mine. I have also put my mind to the Equinox 80 ed but will look at the Willliams optics. Want to make sure I have a good look around and get experienced folks opinions.

Simon 84 thanks for your review re Astrotrac very helpfull in making my decision.

[F64]

Hi all

knew this was going to cost me money but i have looked at the reviews on the William Optics Megrez 90 APO I think I will get better quality images and better viewing than the Equinox 80 ED. Any thoughts guys? My concern is would it be too big for the Astrotrac?

Thanks in advance

Janine

[dmahon]

That's cheating - you said £500!

[Beyond_Vision]

I wouldn't get too hung up on a scope to go with it. I would use the camera and lens to start with. The polar alignment would be more critical with the focal length of the 80mm ED and the Megrez 90 and the weight of these scope would probably mean it would need to be counter weighted. What model of manfrotto tripod do you have?

Regards

Kevin

[brantuk]

If I had £500 spare and was just starting out (knowing what I know now) I'd get an EQ5 mount (with RA and/or Dec motor), and a WO Megrez72. Get one or the other second hand and it should all fit well within that budget for a great start in astro imaging. Then build up from there

[F64]

I wouldn't get too hung up on a scope to go with it. I would use the camera and lens to start with. The polar alignment would be more critical with the focal length of the 80mm ED and the Megrez 90 and the weight of these scope would probably mean it would need to be counter weighted. What model of manfrotto tripod do you have?

Regards

Kevin

Hi

Im using a Manfrotto Art 058 its a very heavy professional studio tripod you could sit on it and it would be fine.

Janine

[F64]

Sorry with a Manfrotto 160 head attached I have the ball head on its way

I was hoping as the tripod is heavy duty I could avoid getting the counter weightshould I get the scope as well? Any thoughts advice?

Janine

[simon84]

To be totally honest have a play with the astrotrac with a camera and lens setup first and if you enjoy it then consider moving into putting a scope on it.

[simon84]

Just had a look at the pan and tilt head that your using, you might struggle getting it all polar aligned. I'm using the 410 geared head which allows for small adjustments without unlocking it. When you do come to polar align it, if you just have the astrotrac on there and then get it aligned you can then add the camera after, it should make any small adjustments easier. I use a Wixey to get my latitude set on the 410 head and then pop everything on there after I've done that.

You'll find your own way of getting there with it though. Its such a great thing to play with. That tripod your using looks like it would support quite alot but dont forget all the weight goes onto the head first so if thats only rated at 5kg it dosnt matter if the tripod can take more.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on with it though and I'm glad my review was of some help.

[Beyond_Vision]

Thats a good tripod and has the weight carrying capacityof 12Kg but a 90mm scope will push the centre of gravity out quite a bit and I would recommend that it should be counter weighted. I use a second hand Tal pier with a second hand Manfrotto 400 geared head which is built like a tank. If I was starting from scratch I would use the Astrotrac wedge and counter balance bar which would be more portable than my setup. What sort of lenses and camera do you have?

[simon84]

I did spend alot of time deliberating on what method I was going to go for, either the pier and wedge, or manfrotto route. For me getting all the manfrotto gear thats in my sig killed two birds with one stone as I needed to upgrade my very out of date tripod.

I have got a pier that I made in my garden which I can mount the manfrotto 410 on, I will eventually build my own wedge when I get my milling machine and lathe and then possibly will invest in the astrotrac pier and scope head which then gives me lots of options.

I like the idea of the Tal pier though, I bet those dont come along 2nd hand often.

Using the 4 head bar I have been using the two cameras to balance each other so that there is no extra weight bearing down on one side.

If you were to mount a scope on the 3/8" screw on the astrotrac so long as you could slide the scope forwards and backwards you might be able to balance it out, you may need to hang a weight underneath the tripod to assist though. The thing with the astrotrac is that there are lots of options and ways of doing things. Its just finding the right way for you.

[F64]

Just had a look at the pan and tilt head that your using, you might struggle getting it all polar aligned. I'm using the 410 geared head which allows for small adjustments without unlocking it. When you do come to polar align it, if you just have the astrotrac on there and then get it aligned you can then add the camera after, it should make any small adjustments easier. I use a Wixey to get my latitude set on the 410 head and then pop everything on there after I've done that.

You'll find your own way of getting there with it though. Its such a great thing to play with. That tripod your using looks like it would support quite alot but dont forget all the weight goes onto the head first so if thats only rated at 5kg it dosnt matter if the tripod can take more.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on with it though and I'm glad my review was of some help.

Hi thanks for all your advice its really helping me put the ideas and kit together. :headbang:Im thinking of putting scope onto the 160 head which can carry 9.9kg (-20 degree +90 frontal tilt -90 degree +30 degree lateral tilt). Believe that movement would handle what I need with OTA ? The head has a 3/8 thread would that fit the scope?

Thanks again for all your help.

Janine

[simon84]

Some of the 80ED scopes and smaller come with an L foot rather than tube rings and normally there is a thread in the bottom of the foot so that you can mount it onto a tripod or head. Normally though the L foot has a 1/4" thread rather than a 3/8" so you may need to try and get a different screw for the 160 head.

My 410 head comes with both so I can swap them over depending on whats going on there.

The only trouble with mouting the scope in that fashion is that you will have no control in balacing the lens and camera end as the scope can only be mounted in one position, depending on the weight of the scope and camera hanging a weight on the tripod may be enough to counterbalance it all the other way.

[ollypenrice]

Weight is not everything. Remember that tracking and almignment get more demanding as focal length goes up. Kevin did make this point so I just second it. I would doubt that more than 300 mm unguided would be realistic and quite possibly less but I don't know for sure.

Olly

[simon84]

I totally agree with both Kevin and yourself Olly but I'm just saying whatever does go on there would need to be balanced nicely, especially when considering popping a scope on there, even more so when you start adding guide cameras and guide scopes. Obviously with a single camera setup its quite happy sitting on a 5kg rated setup.

I've had ok results at 500mm at about 120 seconds and am looking at adding a finder/guider into the mix but only on the pier. I stick to about 200mm and a singe camera when using it on the tripod.

I was reading the expedition report on the Astrotrac website and they used a Canon 400mm L lens with a 2x modifier and were able to get some very nice images of M42, unfortunately it dosnt go into exposure times but set up well on a solid base with good polar alignment its a very capable system. The Astrotrac itself dosnt take any of the weight, it passes through it onto whatever you've mounted it onto. I'm sure with guiding the tracking in RA could be very accurate indeed.

I think if you were going to add their scope head to it all then you would go down the guided route anyway. Thats my plan should I get another APO, all depends on how my two apo lenses perform. As soon as I get some more images together I will get Part 3 of my review together and show what it can and cant do at a variety of focal lengths from 18mm all the way up to 500mm.

[davew]

Hi Janine and all,

I’ll start off by saying I do not have an Astrotrac. I have some background info though.

The Astrotrac was born out of Richard Taylor’s efforts to make a small tracking device for a camera and wide field lens. After a few failures what you see today was built. So bear in mind its original design brief.

The largest scope I have seen mounted on it ( I didn’t get to see the Newtonian ! ) was a Takahashi 152mm running at 1216mm FL. It was less than easy. Used, was the same tripod as you’ve got. Then the experimental alt / az head that’s now in production. Then the Astrotrac and finally a Giro mini counterbalanced with a lathe chuck on an extension bar. They now make a Giro type head.

Richard designed all the extra bits because ball heads and photo heads aren’t easy to use and can be unstable ( Ever tried moving a scope 1 or 2 degrees with a ball head ? ). With a big scope things WERE unstable.

What you don’t see is the effort that went into the use of the scope. It has to be reasonably low and a mat sometimes used to lie on the floor to polar align ( depends on the wind ). Then drift align by studying the subs and adjusting. Oh, and balance like you wouldn’t believe. The photographer, Gain Lee, would sit for hours putting together a decent photo.

Still want to photograph Galaxies? Of course you do

Do what the others suggest for now and start off with a camera and lens. Polar align properly !! and be sure if you use the camera tethered the cable doesn’t drag.

I tell you all this lot because unless you want to image M31 / 33 every night you will need a longish focal length. Have a look at the image sizes and focal lengths used in the imaging section for Galaxies.

Does that help or hinder?

Dave.

[simon84]

Hi Dave, nice bit of info there. I dont suppose you know what sort of sub lengths Gain was able to get with the Tak, I have read some of his exploits with interest though and have to say he is a very patient man.

[davew]

Hi Simon,

Look here - http://cosmicbug.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/m81-m82-glee-astrotrac-web.jpg 2.5 minutes.

Patient you say. I walked passed him one night with the Tak and he was sitting in a garden chair huddled against the cold. Many hours later he was still there. The only movement was to check the subs and eat a biscuit if I remember correctly.

In the wind at Dalby Forest he lay down in the mud to align the scope when using the NP 101 the tripod was that low ( the legs splay out on the 058 ). Astro nutter.

Dave.

[simon84]

Dave, thanks for the link and the tale. Yes nutter would be the word. I think the mud and I would have to stay seperate though.

2 1/2 minutes at that focal length is remarkable and going by the 2008 stamp on the image that was before the new autoguiding version so it just goes to show with a decent alignment what is possible. I deffinitely feel more determined with my 500mm lens now.

Thankyou for that.