First scope for £750-£1000 ?

[grumpy]

hi,

i have started a gcse evening course in callington space center & about to start going to their astronony club.

now i have been useing a littile tesco galaxsee d60 x f700, but now want to move on to something better.

Now i have decided to get into deep sky astrophotoghy , and was going to get a 'Skywatcher Explorer 200P EQ5' and upgrade the mount once i have the cash. but i have now sold my car to my bro and got a bigger cheaper car so i can fit a telescope + my dog in there which i woundnt of been able to do before.

now i was thinking of getting the same scope 'explorer 200p' but with a better mount . But i would like to hear what you guys think.

now i know you can easly spend £1000's on stuff but i think £750-£1000 is plenty for my first proper scope.

heres what im looking for:

A scope & a mount that can pick up deep sky objects and keep track of them for photograhy. ( not expecting anything special for the price )

My bugit is £750 but i could push £1000 after a couple of weeks extra saving if there is something worth buying at that price.

cheers

hope to hear what you peeps think

P.S opinions on GOTO mounts ? now i know GOTO mounts will my my life alot easyer. but i almost think its cheating , as i think it takes the fun out of star gazing . + i like the idea of knowing the sky instead of a little handset doing it for me.

Are they really worth the extra cash ?

[Demonperformer]

If you are serious about getting into dso photography, you need to think about a good equatorial mount, probably HEQ5 or higher, which is going to use up your budget new on its own. I can get 20 second subs on my alt-az mount, but that is limiting.

There have been plenty of positive reports of the OTA on SGL.

You can use a GOTO mount for star-hopping rather than using the goto facility, but it sounds as if you would want to do that all the time, in which case the additional cost of GOTO would not be worth while. If you could get a second hand HEQ5 syntrak (the motors would be necessary for imaging) you could always add a EQMOD module afterwards, which would give you GOTO, if you subsequently decided you wanted it.

Just my 2p ...

[dmahon]

A Skywatcher Explorer 200P DS + HEQ5 syntrek and EQDIR adapter (for GoTo via a laptop) will set you back just over £900 which is right in the middle of your budget range. If you don't have a laptop available, get the HEQ5Pro with the GoTo handset for £100 more. GoTo is definately worth it.

The DS is a better version of the 200P for astrophotography.

You need a sturdy mount for astrophotography by all accounts.

[ollypenrice]

I'd say get an HEQ5 pro mount and a small (second hand?) apo refractor. You absolutely do not need big aperture for deep sky imaging and a short focal length can work reasonably well unguided. By short I mean under 500 mm.

HEQ5 Synscan Pro from FLO for £695. It is a good mount that will do the biz. IKI 70 ED F6 apo from Ian King Imaging for £245.

That is a system that will actually work. You won't struggle to balance it, keep the chip orthogonal or collimate. You would want to add a flattener-reducer if using a DSLR but at first you could just crop the non-flat field regions out of the image and still be working with a chip bigger than most of our posh CCD camera chips.

My most productive telescope is an 85mm apo. Okay it is a very expensive one but that only brings refinement in detail. The first thing is to get some pictures in the can.

Nothing makes imaging life easier than a refractor. A short fast one is the easiest of the lot. Check out Catatonia's recent Heart and Soul Ha image in a WO ZS66. Say no more.

Olly

[grumpy]

hi,

cheers for all your quick repys and help, now im very new too astronomy so the questions that im about to ask prob are very simply ones , buy you will never learn unless you ask so i dont mind.

so the HEQ5 mount seems to be the one to get , which was the one i was looking at anyway so thats all good.

But with the scope im a little confused , with these apo refractor scopes they seem to be good for photo's but how are they for general observation ?

even though i want to get into astrophotography, i would still like to have a peep through the eye piece now and again.

so my question is - can i set up an eye piece to an apo refractor and if so whats the image like ?

so i would be looking for something that is good in both astrophotography and general observation ( prob pushing my luck here ) but is swinging more towards astrophotography.

if these apo refractors can do both then i will have a blitz through the net and see what comes up .

im not going to rush in and buy something then regret it a couple of weeks down the line. ( even though the urge to do so is high )

also i have no idea what almost all of thee abbreviations mean, so if you type one down could you let me know what it means .

cheers

[John]

The views through apochromat (apo) refractors are lovely. Their limited aperture will restrict their usefulness on the fainter deep sky objects and the amount of detail that can be resolved on planets but the views will still be very nice - as good as you can get for their aperture class. You will need a 90 degree diagonal to view with them as many won't come to focus with just an eyepiece on it's own.

In truth it's difficult to find a single scope that's good at everything - that's why many of us own more than one !.

[ollypenrice]

John's right. A little apo will show what it shows beautifully but it is a small 'eye.'

A second hand ED80 might come up or even something bigger, a WO 90 or similar.

Your thread posited imaging as the priority hence my suggestion. When it comes to imaging the little apo wins hands down in my view. I rather feel the 'do it all' scope is a snare and a delusion... The great thing is that your HEQ5 can carry something larger 'if and when...'

Olly

[Dave-Ryan]

Yes get the HEQ5 pro as this will easily hold a small APO and, later on when you decide you want to to use guiding, a guide scope aswell. Many of us use this setup.

[grumpy]

ok cheers for all your replys, alot to think about. you really dont get much for your money when buying new.

is there any astronamy specific websites or mags out there that sell second hand equipment ?

[John]

ok cheers for all your replys, alot to think about. you really dont get much for your money when buying new.

is there any astronamy specific websites or mags out there that sell second hand equipment ?

This forum has a "classifieds" section but you need to get 50 posts under your belt to access it.

There is also the UK Astro Buy & Sell website which is very popular:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/index.php

What you do get when you buy new is a warranty and (if you pick the right supplier) good pre and post-sales support. That said there is a thriving market in used astro equipment and most transactions seem to go smoothly. 80% of my kit was bought used for example.

[Shibby]

Grumpy, do you already own a DSLR camera? Because if not, that will have a fairly significant impact on your budget...

Also, as others have stated - buy second hand! You get a lot more for your money and astronomers tend to look after their equipment

[brantuk]

It's just a personal thing - but when I buy motors, or a motorised/goto mounts I like to buy brand new cos you get the warranty, and good service from the right supplier (eg FLO).

The tube I would get second hand if you know what you're looking for and can check it over (or get a knowledgable astronomer friend to check it for you).

Otherwise - you have a great budget for a really good first scope. As you stated astrophotography in requirements - then I'd go with the recommendations for a heavy duty equatorial mount HEQ5 (or HEQ6) with a goto handset for finding those elusive objects. You'll just need to check the weight of the OTA (optical tube assembly) and that it matches the mount rating.

Aim for an 8" aperture or higher newtonian reflector with parabolic mirror (eg 200P), or as big an aperture refractor as budget allows. Check with the guys here on quality of any refractor you're considering - they'll know more about the "better" ones than me.

Don't forget to budget in stuff like cameras, dew prevention systems, eye pieces, collimation tool, diagonals, field power source, filters, computer, cabling, etc. The ancilliary things can mount up to £100's.

Hope that helps and all the best

[grumpy]

yer i got a dslr and the accessories i.e. camara apdapters arnt a problem as my dad owns a tool makeing company, so he can get his turner or someone else in the company to machine metal parts up.

i have also taken into account the the other accessories like power supply for mount & lens's ... and it has left me with a bit over £750 but by the time i have done my research & asked around a bit i should have about £1000.

i also have the option of w8ing a couple of extra mounths and just borrow my local clubs/space center's equipment until i have a but more cash.

but i dont really like the idea spending a massive amount of £ on my first scope.

[smulx]

I'm far from an expert, but wouldn't something like a C8 suit his needs?

Advanced Series GOTO - Celestron C8-SGT XLT GOTO

[grumpy]

would a 'HEQ5' be able hold a 'Skywatcher Explorer 300P DS OTA' or would i need a better mount ?

if the HEQ5 could hold a 300p what would the image be like through photography and normal observation ?

anyone know any links that show images taken with this OTA ?

[ollypenrice]

I'm far from an expert, but wouldn't something like a C8 suit his needs?

Advanced Series GOTO - Celestron C8-SGT XLT GOTO

No, I would not advise these for imaging. Lots of reasons. Long focal length means demanding tracking/guiding, the mounts don't always deliver this, you need a flattener reducer, the standard focuser is not really up to it, there are issues of mirror shift, polar alignment is difficult... The whole thing adds up to the opposite of user friendly for a newcomer to imaging. Go for short focal length, fast focal ratio. (Only one person's view of course.)

Olly

[angusb1]

For photography you probably ought to use no bigger than an 8" newt on an HEQ5, the advice you will see on this forum is usually to go no heavier than 50% of the total payload capacity of your mount. An HEQ5 is rated at 15kg so stick to combinations of scope and camera under 7-8kg. For heavier combinations of scope and camera get a mount with a bigger payload. For visual observing you can go to the full payload of the mount but for photography you will need a much more stable platform so keep the weight down to around 50% of the max payload.

[grumpy]

ok cheers, i wont get one of those yet then i dont think. looks like i will end up with an apo refractor like ollypenrice suggested on a post early on in thr thread.

im a little worryed that a the 70mm or 80mm apo i will be able to aford wont be able to pick up plenty of deep-sky objects. Or im i talking rubbish ?

what sort of image differance would there be with 80mm ED compaired to a 8" newt reflector ?

[pvaz]

For imaging the sensor and long exposure can make up for that. Visually it will be a world a part as a 8" gathers 625% the light a 80mm will gather.

[grumpy]

im over my head now and just confuesing myself. so im going to w8 a couple of weeks and meet up with my local astro club before buying any telescopes. and buy a couple astrophotography books to read .

cheers for all you time and posting to help me. im just eager to get stuck in and get some pictures.

there's plenty of info on SGL so i will carry on reading up on the thread ppl have posted.

[mijijim]

Hi,

I am glad you asked for advice on this subject as I have learned quite

a lot from the answers. Thankyou.

mijijim

[grumpy]

yer i have learnt a fair bit as well. everyone seens really nice and willing to help out , even though there must be posts like this everyday.

cheers again for everyones help