Rubbish at star hopping

[Rossco72]

Just imagine a time when all you had was a telescope, poor eyepieces and no finder and you had to try and find everything the hard way. We are fortunate to live in a time with such creature comforts as GOTO and RDF's etc. Yes there are so many choices, but that is much better than no choice at all!

[Merlin999]

I've found that with a reticule finder like an RDF, Telrad or Rigel is that you use them with both eyes open. It's hard to explain but it basically means that while one eye is looking at the whole of the sky, the other is looking though the viewfinder. The combined view I find is unmistakable. If you or hubby are looking at say, Vega, you will see it with one eye on the sky and the other through the finder, which of course has the red dot or circles allowing you to line up the star.

Thanks John. I think that would be very useful for him. It would certainly solve a lot of the frustration he had the other night.

No one can be rubbish at star hoping. All it takes is for you you to know a single star or constellation and you can and will find your way around the bight sky.

It's not knowing the star or constellation that is the problem: we have been able to find our way round the sky for a few years now with our binos. It's getting the telescope to point at the right area that is the problem for us so we can star hop. From the number of posts I've found from people with the same problems as us, I know we're not the only ones so sadly it is all too possible to be rubbish at star hopping.

I use a Telrad, a Rigel, a 6x30 AND a 9x50mm optical finder - not on the same scope of course!

My MO though is normally, Telrad for initial placement. this product which I prefer over the two and like any finder, if aligned properly, will LITERALLY transform your ability to put the scope in the right place.

I think that any optical finder is good but the RACI ones are seriously much easier to use as they are 1) the right way up 2) less 'craning' on your neck. They are not called right angled corrected image finders for nothing

Thanks Moonshane. The Telrad certainly does get rave reviews but I wonder if it'd be too bulky for my 127 MAK? The right angled finder I have now is not Corrected Image, so I'm definitely going to swap it for a CI.

Assuming the Telrad is too big, I am undecided between the Rigel/Baader Sky Surfer. The advantage of the Rigel is I can stick it onto the scope with pads so I can have my RACI on at the same time to give us the best chance of finding things. If I get the Baader, I'd have to physically unscrew the RDF when I wanted to use the RACI and vice versa.

Oh and if I get the Sky Surfer is it worthwhile spending £54 extra to get the V over the III?

Thanks for everyone's advice. I know a lot of this is down to personal preference but your views have been a great help to me so far in making this decision. I am sorry to be so dithery about this! It is such a steep learning curve and my brain is starting to hurt!

[Ben Ritchie]

Oh and if I get the Sky Surfer is it worthwhile spending £54 extra to get the V over the III?

I guess this goes back to my suggestion of trying these out if possible. IMO the V is in a different league to the III, but it's an expensive bit of kit so depends on your budget a bit.

[glowjet]

Take peek at the USA Cloudy Nights forum, there was a review of a number of popular RDF devises Called the "RDF Shoot Out," with their respective pros and cons.

[pvaz]

Take peek at the USA Cloudy Nights forum, there was a review of a number of popular RDF devises Called the "RDF Shoot Out," with their respective pros and cons.

Can't find it. Can you provide a link?

Found it now: http://www.cloudynights.com/documents/9finders.pdf

[MikeWilson]

I find a 7 X 30 finder much preferable to a red dot finder as I can only see stars down to mag 4 with the naked eye and objects are much easier to locate when you can see stars down to magnitude 8 in the finder.

To find an object I mentally note shapes of star-formations, mainly triangles, on the map and measure dimensions in degrees and minutes and direction eg 'object (or next star-shape to hop from) is 1 degree, 20 minutes NNW of firsthop-off point. As I know how wide the field of view of my eyepieces are I can then skew the scope that distance from star hop-off points.

One of my scopes is the same one as yours, Merlin, so I know what you mean re: finding stars. I guess it takes practice getting used to it.

I've quoted Andy's post above since this is really good advice, particularly on noting the shapes of star-formations. If you're looking through the Skywatcher stock finder you will see quite a lot more stars through it than you usually do with the naked eye, meaning that whilst you can easily spot the target star with your eyes, finding it in the finderscope can be difficult.

The key for me was to take a look in Stellarium, and then flip the image to get an idea of what stars near the target star look like in the finder scope and then the rest was easy.

I'm not sure about other stars looking much brighter than the stars around it, to be honest. Looking through the stock finder they're all similar brightness. At this point taking a look through the (32mm) eyepiece helps as the target star will probably be quite a lot brighter than the ones around it.

Also I've just acquired the book, "Turn Left at Orion". Each page lists an object of interest and shows a sketch of the finder view and the eyepiece view. I'd definitely consider getting this book (before Christmas!) to help you on your way (it's helping me considerably already!).

Mike

[Merlin999]

I guess this goes back to my suggestion of trying these out if possible. IMO the V is in a different league to the III, but it's an expensive bit of kit so depends on your budget a bit.

I agree Ben. FLO have been great and said that if I bought an RDF and didn't like it, they would exchange it for another. And the V does get very good reviews

Take peek at the USA Cloudy Nights forum, there was a review of a number of popular RDF devises Called the "RDF Shoot Out," with their respective pros and cons.

Ooo that sounds very useful, I will check that out! Thanks glowjet

Found it now: http://www.cloudynights.com/documents/9finders.pdf

Thanks for posting the link pvaz.

One of my scopes is the same one as yours, Merlin, so I know what you mean re: finding stars. I guess it takes practice getting used to it.

I've quoted Andy's post above since this is really good advice, particularly on noting the shapes of star-formations. If you're looking through the Skywatcher stock finder you will see quite a lot more stars through it than you usually do with the naked eye, meaning that whilst you can easily spot the target star with your eyes, finding it in the finderscope can be difficult.

The key for me was to take a look in Stellarium, and then flip the image to get an idea of what stars near the target star look like in the finder scope and then the rest was easy.

I'm not sure about other stars looking much brighter than the stars around it, to be honest. Looking through the stock finder they're all similar brightness. At this point taking a look through the (32mm) eyepiece helps as the target star will probably be quite a lot brighter than the ones around it.

Also I've just acquired the book, "Turn Left at Orion". Each page lists an object of interest and shows a sketch of the finder view and the eyepiece view. I'd definitely consider getting this book (before Christmas!) to help you on your way (it's helping me considerably already!).

Mike

Thanks Mike. I'll reassure my husband he's not the only one to struggle!!

We have been getting to know the star formations and hubby is very good at picking them out with the naked eye. It is just translating that into getting the telescope to the right place. As you suggested, we've certainly found the 32mm EP to be the best for star hopping.

Yes, I bought Turn Left at Orion a couple of weeks ago. It really is a brilliant book and I found it very useful for giving tips for finding Abireo (even if we never made it there! at least we knew roughly where we were heading).

I am sure these are all beginners teething problems and in a few months time we'll be laughing at how useless we were when we first started out!

[Merlin999]

Take peek at the USA Cloudy Nights forum, there was a review of a number of popular RDF devises Called the "RDF Shoot Out," with their respective pros and cons.

I've just had a look at that review glowjet: it was very useful thanks.

I think from that review I can definitely rule out the Telrad as my scope is small.

So I now have three options:

1) Buy a Rigel and stick it on the telescope so I have a choice of either Rigel or my 9x50RA

2) Buy a Sky Surfer III

3) Buy a Sky Surfer V

Both options 2 and 3 would mean either not using my 9x50 RA at all, or using it as necessary which would mean physically swapping over the Sky Surfer for the 9x50RA on the telescope each time.

At least I am narrowing down my options (ish)! I guess they are all pretty good options so I probably can't go too wrong whichever one I choose.

Thanks for all your help and I really appreciate your patience with the slowness of my decision making.

[PeterW]

Sounds like you've worked it out. The Rigel should drop you near an object and the finder or lowest power eyepiece (biggest focal length) to locate them. A correct image finder, I have the Orion 9x50 saves on the mental gymnastics and makes chart usage much easier. The observers sky atlas by karkoshka has a number of mini charts that are really helpful in finding your first objects.

Keep at it, you'll get the hang with a bit of practice

PEterW

[RobH]

Hello Merlin.

As others have said, a bright visual star like Vega will appear unmistakably bright in the finder.

Have you accurately aligned your finder in daylight?

Just get the scope pointed at a distant TV aeriel or similar, then make sure the fider is pointing at the same thing....much easier in the day than at night.

Cheers

Rob

[MikeWilson]

+1 to RobH's comment.

It took me a few days to figure out that I could twist the alignment screws on the finder scope mount such that the finderscope is pointed at the same object that the telescope was. After I managed this it was a doddle getting finder objects into the telescope's FoV.

I say a 'doddle', but I really mean it was easy considering that I was on my knees in the mud looking upwards through the scope! A right angle finder might be a good investment!

[Merlin999]

Sounds like you've worked it out. The Rigel should drop you near an object and the finder or lowest power eyepiece (biggest focal length) to locate them. A correct image finder, I have the Orion 9x50 saves on the mental gymnastics and makes chart usage much easier. The observers sky atlas by karkoshka has a number of mini charts that are really helpful in finding your first objects.

Keep at it, you'll get the hang with a bit of practice

PEterW

Thanks Peter. I'm definitely going to swap my RA for an RACI and I think I will probably get a Rigel. but if not definitely and RDF. I'll have a look at the sky atlas you recommend. Thanks for the encouragement. I'm sure we'll get better and, pardon the awful pun but the only way is up!

Thanks Rob and Mike. Yes my Finderscope is aligned. I did it during the day on some distant chimneys and checked it when viewing Jupiter and it seemed fine. I think it is probably just a matter of experience. We'll give it another go when we get some clear skies.

I haven't quite decided which of the three options to go for, but I am pretty happy with each of them so it's just a case of making a decision.

Thanks for all your help. Hopefully my next star hopping report will be more successful!

Stephanie

[Merlin999]

Well I finally made a decision: I swapped my 9x50RA (not CI) for a 9x50RACI and I have bought a Rigel. I should be getting them in the next few days.

Although I really liked the Sky Surfer V, it looked pretty big and I thought a big advantage of the Rigel is that I can have both it and my RACI attached at the same time to give us a sporting chance!

So I am hoping my next thread will be titled 'Success at Star Hopping' or something along those lines.

Thanks again to everyone for all their advice, much appreciated.

Stephanie

[Moonshane]

good luck Stephanie - I think you have made a life changing decision. OK it's not really going to change your life but will make finding things a lot easier!

[brantuk]

At last you've gone and got the RACI - whew! - why on earth were you dithering so long Stephanie? lol

Really though - it'll change your viewing and it'll be a lot easier - I find it helps to allways start from the brightest star nearest your object - line it up in the rdf and the raci will make the rest easy. Don't stray too far from your reference object though cos it's still easy to overshoot and get lost - make sure you can allways go straight back to it and start again - the rest will follow with time. All the best

[Merlin999]

Thanks brantuk and Moonshane. Life changing? You know it could well be, even if only just a little! And sometimes it's the little things that make all the difference.

I have to admit brantuk, I was very glad to stop dithering and make a decision! I'll definitely be following your advice about using the RDF/RACI as soon as I get them. I can't wait to get back out there and give it a whirl.

Stephanie