Need new Finderscope for 127 MAK

[Merlin999]

I got my MAK 127 today and tomorrow morning I will post my full experience of my first night with it.

But before that, I have realised I urgently need to buy a new Finderscope. There are three main reasons:

Lining it up is a nightmare: I fiddled with screws, cursed a lot and finally got the cross-hairs pretty much aligned with the view from the scope.

Difficult to get it accurate: it didn't seem terribly accurate or easy. I would manage to find Jupiter in the Finderscope and then really struggle to find it through the EP even when I thought I had it lined up

Back-breaking: Having to bend down to look through the Finderscope is very hard work.

So I need something easier to line up, more accurate and not so painful for my back. Any advice would be most gratefully received.

Thanks

[BazMark]

Hi, I had the same problem with mine. I purchased an Orion 9x50 right angled finder. This has the added benefit of having almost the same FOV as my 10x50 binos that I use to help me locate what I wan't to look at. Once it's properly aligned this helps me locate in the scope what I see in the binos. This finder also stays aligned even when removed from the scope and then refitted.

[brantuk]

I have two Orion 9x50 RACI's (right angled correct image) for my dob and schmitt for exactly the same reasons. They work a treat. Some people like RDF's such as the Telerad - especially on large dobs where bending isn't such an issue. The trick with aligning any finder is to do it in daylight (much easier) then refine adjustment at night on any object using progressively higher power ep's - I start with 30mm then refine it down to about 10-12mm and then it's good to go on just about anything.

[Worzsel]

The one that's supplied with the mak is terrible isn't it. I'll be interested to see what people recommend as I need to buy a new one too really.

I use a red dot finder on mine, a baader sky surfer from flo and it's great!

Did you manage to get Jupiter ?

[Merlin999]

Thanks Baxmark and brantuk. Yes, I think a right-angled finder would definitely be kinder on my back. I'll have a look at the Orion 9x50RACI.

Can I ask, how easy is it to line it up? I tried aligning my Finderscope during daylight but found it impossible to line up on my own and had to wait for my husband to come in to help and even then with two people it was a nightmare.

As you pointed out Baxmark, I am certainly very interested in the fact it stays lined up even when removed from the telescope.

Do you think I would find a Red Dot Finder useful? How do they work? After frustratingly scanning the skies last night, I'd definitely want one that was accurate and easy to use.

Hi Worzel, is your sky surfer right angled? Yes, I did manage to see Jupiter last night though not under ideal conditions. I've posted a new thread detailing my adventures last night.

[John]

Personally I find I use a red dot finder much of the time and an optical finder occasionally. If you got a Rigel Quikfinder you could have both types on your scope as the Rigel fixes on with self adhesive pads (and, yes, they are strong pads !):

Finders - Rigel QuikFinder Compact Reflex Sight

The Rigel has a small footprint on the scope (as opposed to the excellent but rather bulky Telrad) which rather suits the compact maksutov-cassegrain design I think.

[watchmakerjohn]

Tried the red dot finder but settled for an upright skywatcher right angled finder

[Macavity]

I think it depends somewhat on the MOUNT you are using with the MAK127. I have an Orion 9x50 RACI finder, which I sometimes use. But the combination of MAK127 plus finder (additional off-axis weight) is a little too much for e.g. the Synscan Goto. If it is indeed a matter of aligning a Synscan, a decent (sic!) red dot finder will suffice. My Baader Skysurfer... The Rigel (above) etc.

Aligning a finder with the main scope should not be too difficult... Do it in the comfort of your own "living room", during daylight hours? The neighbour's TV aerials make good targets... You can usually set things up to around 1/4 degree (one half the moon's diameter) or so. This should be good enough for most purposes...

[Merlin999]

OK, a complete noob question, but I am confused how exactly the red dot finders actually work. I know they project a dot/circle in the sky, but do the magnify or do you rely on being able to see the object you are pointing at with the naked eye? Why would you need both a red dot finder and a 9x50?

The 9x50 Orion right angled finder seems to be Out of Stock at a lot of places at the moment. A few phone calls to shops who don't have it in stock have led to the following advice:

1) The Skywatched 9x50 right angled finder is actually the same as the Orion one being made by the same manufacturer.

2) The Orion 9x50 will be too big for your 127 MAK so you should go for the Orion 9x30.

Any advice? Thanks in advance

[Macavity]

If you did get the Supertrack mount, then I would agree that the 9x50 RACI finder is a probably bit too heavy. Plus you introduce another (90 degree!) bend into your line of sight. Essentially, you'd need a "finder for the finder". <G> Personally, I would prefer EITHER a Red dot finder or a straight through (say) 6x30 optical finder. Perhaps not a colour match, but...

6x30 Finder Scope | Telescope Accessories | Rother Valley Optics

Since you may not be using GoTo, the additional optical aid may be useful.

[Merlin999]

Hmmm I'm undecided what to do for a new Finderscope. I desperately need one but want to make sure it is the right one.

Issues are:

1) is the 9x50 too big and heavy for my Supatrak? So should I get a 9x30 instead?

2) is a red dot finder easier to use or should I just go for an ordinary Finderscope (or heaven forbid both?)

2) The Orion 9x50 is hard to come by so is the Skywatcher 9x50 as good as the Orion?

Whatever I choose has to be easy to align, accurate and easy to use, especially after my disasters last night trying to find Jupiter (which let's face it is so bright at the moment you'd think you wouldn't be able to miss it!!)

[Merlin999]

Sorry Macavity just realised I didn't see your first post to this thread, I think we were maybe typing at the same time.

So you do find the 9x50 a bit heavy. I've got the Supatrak Auto. No GOTO, only automatic tracking, so don't need to align it so much. Then again, means I need a decent Finderscope to find anything in the sky!

I've found the non right-angled Finderscope too hard to use for my back.

Crumbs I thought I had sorted most of my purchasing choices out when I decided which telescope to buy!

[PaulG]

Hmmm I'm undecided what to do for a new Finderscope. I desperately need one but want to make sure it is the right one.

Issues are:

1) is the 9x50 too big and heavy for my Supatrak? So should I get a 9x30 instead?

2) is a red dot finder easier to use or should I just go for an ordinary Finderscope (or heaven forbid both?)

2) The Orion 9x50 is hard to come by so is the Skywatcher 9x50 as good as the Orion?

Whatever I choose has to be easy to align, accurate and easy to use, especially after my disasters last night trying to find Jupiter (which let's face it is so bright at the moment you'd think you wouldn't be able to miss it!!)

I have a Mak 127 and I dont use a finder as i only look at the Moon.

A simple RDF finder is Ok for the Moon & planets, I had this one which was nicely made

Revelation Advanced Red Dot Finder

Paul

[Merlin999]

In the interests of not getting stressed about another purchase (too much of that this week already!) I've made a decision rather than agonise over it for any longer.

In the end I decided to buy the Skywatcher 9x50 right angled Finderscope. Having looked into the red dot finders I was a bit worried I might have difficulty seeing those with my dodgy night vision and gappy Field of Vision, so I thought a nice wide 9x50 might be better for me.

I would have been very happy to buy the Orion 9x50 but for some reason everywhere seems out of stock of them at the moment and won't be getting them in for three weeks or so and my poor back simply would not survive that long. So, I decided to go with the Skywatchers. I should bet gettin them on Tuesday so only a few more nights to put up with the Finderscope I have now. I'll just have to make sure I have enough ibuprofen in the house to treat my back pains until then!!

I ordered it from FLO who were lovely and said if it turned out the Finderscope was too heavy for the Supatrak mount, they would be happy to refund it for me. Hopefully my Finderscope problems will soon be solved!

[brantuk]

If you find it too heavy then any of the 9x30's should be fine (Orion or SW). There's a nack to using a red dot finder - the trick is to look through it with one eye whilst looking at the sky with the other. However it won't help your back on that scope. Don't wory about right angles in the finder - it's only for finding - the main views will be through the eye piece

[Merlin999]

Thanks brantuk. I should be getting my new Finderscope on Tuesday so I'll see how I get on with it. As you say, if I find it heavy, I'll swap it for a 9x30.

[Merlin999]

My Skywatcher right angled 9x50 Finderscope arrived today. As before I lined it up on some distant chimneys. What a difference. My back was very very grateful at how much easier it was. And I think I have finally got the hang(ish) of using the two screws to align the scope. I didn't notice any difference with the Supatrak mount using this heavier Finderscope but I'll know better when I am outside using it properly.

I just need some clear skies now!

[brantuk]

Thats good news Merlin - glad it's helped. You can also focus the finder to your own eyes if needed. Do use distant objects to align/focus it on though. Closer objects introduce tiny misalignments that you don't notice on earth by day - but at night on very distant objects the error is multiplied.

I use a pylon 2 miles away but then I adjust on a planet or familiar star at the start of a session. And I allways do night alignment starting with a low magnitude ep and then refine with one or two progressively higher mag ep's. It really helps

[Merlin999]

Thanks brantuk. Sadly the chimneys are as far away as I can see from my garden. Hopefully now it is not so painful, I'll be able to adjust the alignment while looking at a star/planet.

Thanks for your advice- much appreciated:)

[OzDave]

Just read this thread a bit late, but thought I'd add my experiences since I have a Mak 127 and all three of the different finders you were considering.

My scope came with a Red Dot Finder and I separately purchased a 6x30 and a 9x50 finder, both right angles.

The Red Dot Finder I typically use to do my GOTO alignment and to get in the general vicinity of a target. I switch it on and it projects a red dot onto the sky. There is no magnification, so basically as the scope slews, I can watch the red dot move across the sky. When the slew completes, I can then tweak the positioning until the red dot covers up the target that I want.

However, the focal length of the Mak 127 is quite long, and so even though I seemingly get the dot on top of my target, due to parallax and maybe other alignment errors, the target is sometimes still not quite in the view of the main scope. If that happens, I swap out the Red Dot finder and use one of the other 6x30 or 9x50. The target will definitely be in finder's field of view and I can then use that to improve accuracy.

I've since turned my 6x30 finder into a guide scope for use with my astro imaging setup and I'm about to do the same with my 9x50. I now find that I only use the Red dot finder to do the GOTO alignment and after that, I don't really need a finder anymore since I'm mainly doing imaging work rather than observing.

David

[OzDave]

Oh...the other thing you might want to watch for when you start star hopping and using star charts to navigate, is whether or not your finder (and scope) invert the image.

What I mean by this is, say you look at your star map and find the first star on your star hopping journey in your finder. If your finder inverts the view of the sky (meaning you see it upside down or reversed left/right), then you may have a hard time relating what you see in the finder to what you see on the star map. This happened to me and it wasn't until I realised that I was able to finally figure out how to navigate between stars.

I solved this problem in two different ways. Firstly I bought a right-angled erecting finderscope, which basically means the image it gives you is the same as what you'd see with your naked eye (but magnified). So it should also match your star map.

The second thing I did was use the StarMap Pro software on my iPhone as my star map. This has a mode that shows you what the view through your scope should be like and you can tell it to invert or flip the view if that is what your scope does. Using this, I was able to avoid carrying piles of paper maps and also have a map that matched whatever my optics were showing me.

Don't know if you have an iphone, or if this anecdote will help you, but I thought I'd share it with you in case.

David

[BazMark]

Something else you may find helpful for your bad back Merlin is a chair. I use an folding ironing chair I got cheap and find it great for releaving the stress on my back.

As regards weight problems with the 9x50 finder / 127 Mak combo, I haven't had any wieght issues either with my GoTo and I only use rechargable AA Batteries to drive it. (After 2hrs of viewing the Uniross Hybrio's are still going strong from a full charge.)

The reason I like the 9x50 RACI finder is that my skies are light polluted, so that much of what I want to explore can't be seen with the naked eye but can with with a pair of 10x50 binos. Therefore when I locate something of interest with my Binos I can locate the same view in my finder and thus in my scope.

For example when I look at Mirphak with naked eye I can only see one star below Cassiopeia. However, through my binos and 9x50 finder I can see dozens of stars surrounding Mirphak and I can centre any one of them in my scope easily. However, with an RDF I can only see Mirphak.

As you can tell I don't use my GoTo much. I like to explore.

My overall experience with the 127Mak is that if you have nice dark skies or are relying on your GoTo then an RDF will be fine unless you're a back sufferer. However, if you don't have Goto or just like to explore like me and your skies are light polluted so that you are limited in what you can see with the naked eye then an optical RACI finder is the way to go.

[glowjet]

Part of my work many years ago involved surveying, so when I came to set up my finder scope up I invested in an cross hair ep, the one I have is a 12mm Acromat it was quite cheap if I remember, you can even make your own with cotton thread or fine copper wire and a cheap ep so I have read. Pop this into your scope during the day and focus the cross hair on something distant like the tip of a tv aerial or the point of some distant building, the further away the better, it is then a question of focusing the finder cross hair onto the same object, the centers of your FOV should now be matched, a bit overboard maybe, but when you get lost among a field of stars it sometimes helps with the aid of your star map to pinpoint where you are.

[Merlin999]

I now find that I only use the Red dot finder to do the GOTO alignment and after that, I don't really need a finder anymore since I'm mainly doing imaging work rather than observing.

David

Thanks David that was very useful. I don't have GOTO only Automatic Tracking so it sounds like I might not need an RDF.

Oh...the other thing you might want to watch for when you start star hopping and using star charts to navigate, is whether or not your finder (and scope) invert the image.

I solved this problem in two different ways. Firstly I bought a right-angled erecting finderscope, which basically means the image it gives you is the same as what you'd see with your naked eye (but magnified). So it should also match your star map.

The second thing I did was use the StarMap Pro software on my iPhone as my star map. This has a mode that shows you what the view through your scope should be like and you can tell it to invert or flip the view if that is what your scope does. Using this, I was able to avoid carrying piles of paper maps and also have a map that matched whatever my optics were showing me.

Don't know if you have an iphone, or if this anecdote will help you, but I thought I'd share it with you in case.

David

Thanks David. I bought one corrected up/down but not left/right. (ran out of money truthfull). Sadly I don't have an iphone, but your recommendation would be useful for my little laptop which I will be using outside to help navigate. Do you know of any software for a PC that can flip the image like Starmap Pro?

However, if you don't have Goto or just like to explore like me and your skies are light polluted so that you are limited in what you can see with the naked eye then an optical RACI finder is the way to go.

Thanks BazMark. I wish I had paid the extra for to have Finder corrected Left/Right as well, but hey, I can only go by my budget! Hopefully I'll get the hang of it.

Part of my work many years ago involved surveying, so when I came to set up my finder scope up I invested in an cross hair ep, the one I have is a 12mm Acromat it was quite cheap if I remember, you can even make your own with cotton thread or fine copper wire and a cheap ep so I have read.

This sounds really useful Glowjet. I'll see how I get on with aligning it and if I have problems, I'll give your recommendation a go. Thanks.

[Merlin999]

Do you know of any software for a PC that can flip the image like Starmap Pro?

Just found out Stellarium can do that too! Thanks for the advice David.