RA Offset 45deg Problem

[Freff]

Hi all

This is my first post, and unfortunaly i come wih a problem.

A few weeks ago I bought a Skymax 127 GoTo telescope for my lad. Since then we have had problems setting it up. We are complete novices so even the very basic are daunting at present.

The manual that came with the scope is not the best and have caused confusion from the start. This is what we are doing to set up. By the way the hand set version is 03.27.

1. The base is levelled the the mount attached. This is also levelled and pointed North. (other directions also tried)

2. Powered on.

3. Location entered....003'00' W 51'36'N

4. Time Zone....+00:00

5. Date.... 06/16/2010

6. Time....01:00:00 (24hr format)

7. Time is then confirmed (12 hr format)

8. Daylight saving >>YES

9. It then give Polaris data

10. Begin Alignment....YES

11. Alignment Method... 3, 2 or 1-Star Alignment (no brightest star option as in the manual)

I have tried all three methods. Each time the Stars are accurately choosen, (confirmed with compass and electronic angle finder then checked with Starry Nights). The scope slew no where near the stars choosen, I then used Dir Keys to navigate to the star and the cross hairs centred and then entered on hand controller.

This is where i constantly get the "RA Offset 45', "Alignment failed" problem.

I have changed the settings to every possible combination in the initial setup. Started the scope facing south, north pointing to Polaris everything i can think of to no avail.

I have search this forum but have been unable to find the answer.

If anyone can point me in the right direction (sorry, no pun intended) I would be eternally grateful. Many thanks.

Tony

[fatwoul]

Hi Tony,

I guess you didn't notice, but I just posted the exact same problem one thread earlier than yours!

I THINK I may have found the solution elsewhere on SGL, but unfortunately I can't be sure until my next session, because I'm all packed up now.

From other threads I have been reading, its possible our problem lies in the use of the park position. It seems that the scope must be parked. The accuracy of the parking dictates how accurately it finds the first alignment star.

The park position is generally recognised to be with the weights facing down, and the scope facing Polaris.

So, before you commence the alignment, you instruct the mount to park. It takes the scope to what it thinks is the park position, which will probably be wrong. You then unlock the RA and Dec, and swing the scope around to be in the correct park position. You lock them down again, and begin the alignment procedure.

If you're still out with your telescope, please try this and tell me if it works. I won't find out for myself for at least 21 hours!

[Freff]

Hi fatwoul

Thanks for the reply. I didn't notice your post until I posted. It took an age for me to explain myself.

I'm not sure about the parking procedure, it's not mentioned in the manual. Unlocking and locking the RA & Dec is beyond me at present but I shall look into it tomorrow. unfortunately, I also have packed away for the night, so I assume we'll both be looking at the stars tomorrow.

Thanks Tony

[Digz]

Tony,

What location are you? I only ask due to the +1:00 entered for time zone. If your in the UK I dont think you need to do this as the Daylight savings option is YES.

One other thing to ensure is that when you enter all your data that the scope is in the park position (I manually do this once polar aligned) as if the scope is not 'parked' then it is going to slew from the wrong starting position!

[Freff]

Hi Digz

Thanks for the reply. The time zone was a typo, I'll change it. As for parking do I align to Polaris, set this as my park location then start the star alignment sequence?

Tony

[Digz]

Hi Tony,

The park location is the position of the scope. What I normally do is polar align - in doing this the scope will more than likely be put in an odd position. Once polar aligned I then return the scope so it is vertical (like the scope in this image http://www.f1telescopes.co.uk/images/Image/219888image1.jpg)

This is then parked and ensures the scope starts from a known position.

[Freff]

Hi Digz

Sorry to sound vague, and thanks for your patience. when I polar align is that pointing to the north (Az) and then to Polaris (Alt) and then setting that to park. The scope will then be in the configuration you mention.

Tony

[fatwoul]

Hi Freff,

Apparently, there is a convention to parking a scope. The normal parked position is with the counterweights at their lowermost, and the scope pointing at Polaris. I arrived at this position independently as the best place to leave my scope, since it is also the place where the scope is least likely to fall out of its dovetails, should they not be screwed on correctly.

[Digz]

Hi Digz

Sorry to sound vague, and thanks for your patience. when I polar align is that pointing to the north (Az) and then to Polaris (Alt) and then setting that to park. The scope will then be in the configuration you mention.

Tony

No worries, Ok here's the deal ;-) BTW what mount is the scope on?

1. You align the scope mount due north (i.e. so the polar scope is pointing north);

2. Set the polar scope for your date and time of observation (either using the setting circles or handset information) This is where the scope, if mounted will potentially point in a funny position;

3. Adjust the altitude and Az (i think - its the two knobs to the front that move the mount left and right) until polaris is sat in the marker.

4. Return the scope back to the park position as in the image in my previous post.

Et voila, now when you do your alignment everything should be hunky dory :-)

[Freff]

Hi Digz

This is the scope and mount. The mount is autotracking type. Unsure how this relates to your guide. Sorry to be such a noob.

Tony

[Digz]

ah, this is where Im gonna have to bow out as Im only a noob myself and I dont know how this kind of mount works. Im guessing that the procedure I am describing above will not work with this kind of mount.

Having said that I am sure someone will chip in though.

BTW the image looks like its showing the scope in the parked position which is where you want to start from after aligning.

[Dave Smith]

Hi Tony

That is an alt-az mount. I think all the advice given applies to a GP mount (eg EQ type) I have two alt-az scopes, one a Celestron which does not require the mount to be in any set position to start, but the other a Meade ETX 125 requires the scope to be horizontal pointing North. This is maybe what you need to do with yours.

I am not familiar with your scope so if you try this proceed with caution.

Do you not have a manual? Possibly there is one available on line.

Dave

[Freff]

Hi Digz

Yes it's a bit confusing at present but I'm sure all your info is relevent I just need to apply it to my situation.

Hi Astrosnaps

Thanks for your help. I have a manual for the mount/scope but it's next to useless.

Tony

[OzDave]

Hi, I have never used one of these mounts so this is just a guess based on the information presented so far and on other posts. I am guessing you are starting the alignment with the scope pointed north in azimuth and at polaris in altitude. Based on your position, this would mean the scope is pointing at about 51 degrees altitude.

The error you are getting says RA Offset 45 degrees, which if you think about it, could mean that the scope needs to be horizontal when you start (but also pointing north).

These alignment things work by assuming your scope is in a certain position when you start and then measuring how far wrong you tell them they were when they do the alignment slews. So if you start in the "wrong" position, you effectively confuse the GOTO system from the get-go. In your case, I expect the problem is simply to find the correct starting position, which I am betting is scope pointing north at the horizon (0 degrees altitude). Assuming your northern horizon doesn't have a massive hill on it...

Out of interest, the initial slews you do, are they out by around 45 degees in altitude?

[Glider]

Just an observation;

Skywatcher hand controller software for equatorial EQ mounts is up to V3.27. However, you have an alt azi mount and the software for that is only up to V3.07.

I think you've either got the wrong handset or somehow it's loaded with the wrong software!!!

[Glider]

Yep, just had a look at Skywatchers website and if your hand controller says V3.27 that ties up with it being loaded with the latest EQ software rather than the latest V3.07 alt azi mount software.

If I understand, you can approximate an alt azi mount to an EQ by adding a (45 degree?) wedge, could this account for the 45 degree error?

[Cornelius Varley]

If your handset has the EQ firmware (which I suspect it has, as it gave information on the position of Polaris which the AZ mount doesn't require) you will need to download the AZ firmware Goto firmware. You will need the Synscan firmwareloader aswell as the v3.07 AZ firmware. The cable to connect the handset to your computer should have been supplied with the telescope, the instructions for updating the firmware are in the instruction manual.

Peter

[Freff]

I think Glider spotted it first. Please line up in an orderly manner to kick my ARS#. I feel a complete #ickhead.

I have updated with the wrong software version EQ SYNSCAN FIRMWARE V3.27 and I'm now having trouble trying to revert back to the original.AZ SYNSCAN FIRMWARE V3.07 All attempts end in "Failed to Update":mad:

Thank you all for your inputs and patience. Looks like a new thread coming up.

Tony

[Freff]

It appears I'm unable to revert back to the original AZ firmware on the Handset. I can't understand why if I can go from AZ to EQ firmware, why not the reverse.

I can't find another occurrence of this anywhere, surely I'm not the only silly sod who have done this...am I?

[Digz]

At least we know what the problem is. Good luck with reverting back to the proper software.

[sn00p]

Have you tried the factory reset command??? not sure if that will revert back to EQ factory settings or original handset settings? and have you tried updating the handset with Alt/AZ firmware??? direct? i.e without the fork mounted and powered through the handset only?

[Glider]

Factory reset only resets the parameters I'm afraid, he has the wrong software programmed into his hand controller (HC) altogether.

To update the SW(firmware) on a HC you run a program(bootloader) on your PC and instruct it to upload a file to the HC. This is true whether you have an EQ or AltAzi mount.

Possibly you used the Windows EQ bootloader to upload EQ firmware to the HC and it was OK.

You've now tried to us the same Windows EQ bootloader to up load AltAzi firmware to the HC and it's not OK.

Is there a Windows AltAzi bootloader specifically to suit uploading AltAzi firmware to the HC?

[Freff]

Hi Glider

It appears, looking on SkyWatcher web site that the updater loader is the same for EQ and AltAzi. I think I'm stuffed.

[Glider]

In that case I'm surprised you can't just reverse what you've done by writing the correct AltAzi firmware over the EQ firmware.

The original update that you did, all be it with the wrong firmware file, did complete successfully didn't it?

I've done it several times with no problem.

Where are you?

[Freff]

You would think so, but I have tried every conceivable way even trying to downgrade to a earlier version of the EQ firmware. In fact I can't upload anything to the HC. I still get "Failed to Update" The HC is being seen by the Updater software so there's no problem there.