M51

[cap603]

I'm new at this and have a question. I've been trying to capture M51 with my Orion 8" reflector equipped with a 10mm ep and a 2x Barlow. No luck so far. Of course, the clouds keep getting in the way, as they did tonight. Is it possible to see M51 with this equipment?

Thanks:confused:

[cloudbuster]

Hi Jim

Should be no problem with that great scope, try looking for it without the barlow first of all, & a lower powered eyepiece. Once u have acquired the 'smudge', then increase the power. Let us know how u get on!

cheers

bob

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Your 8" scope is more then capable of it.

It's more likely to do with either both your location and for sure right now, the weather conditions (wich are pretty bad due to summer and all).

I also really do not think you need to use a barlow for this one.

But most importantly. Even if it's pitch black and the sky conditions are perfect. Pretty much all nebulas and galaxies will show up only as mere fuzzies.

Only Andromeda (M31) and Orion Nebula (M42) will show up a bit brighter.

Just don't expect to see galaxies and nebulas like you see on photographs!

If you expect that, you will sorely be dissapointed.

Almost all of those photographs are taken with expensive cooled CCD cameras, as it requires very long exposure times to get that much detail out of Deep Sky Objects.

Reason is. That most of these Deep Sky Objects are just too far away and thus too faint for our naked eye to clearly see.

Our planets on the other hand, are very bright objects and will give you magnificent views.

When you see Saturn and Jupiter for the first time. You will surely be blown away!

You should have a look in the Sketching section of these forums. Then you will get more or less a clearer picture as to what to expect with visual observation.

[lukebl]

As others have said, 10mm plus a 2x barlow will give way too much magnification, and also a very narrow field of view. A large-ish faint diffuse object like a galaxy will be lost with high magnification.

I would use a 25mm eyepeice.

[vince 66]

Hi Jim you should have no problems seeing M51 with an 8 inch scope try a longer focal lenght eyepiece first ie 25 or 32mm the wider the field of view the easier it is to find somthing. Then when you've found it then you can push up the power if you wish. I find all of my messier objects using a 2inch 42mm eye piece this give me a magnification of 35x with my 10" dob if I was using a barlowed 10mm eyepiece this would give me 294x which is far to much power to be looking for somthing also make sure that youre finder/red dot finder are properly lined up as this makes things alot easier back to eyepiece magnification again most of the time due to seeing conditions LESS IS MORE.Don't give up you will find that once you have found a messier object you will never lose it it's just finding it first off thats the hard part.

[Chris H]

Where are you in the world? If your in the UK then you will have a problem it's not really getting dark enough to view galaxies at this time of year but you should still be able to spot it as a smudge also if you have light pollution that will make it much more difficult. In your scope the 10mm plus x2 barlow is giving you x240 which is too high try your lowest power ep first then if you find it give the 10mm a go but without the barlow. Most DSO's are best observed at low powers.

I have the XT10i and from my location, which is pretty dark, I can make out the spiral shape of M51 on a good night at x100.

[Chris H]

5 replies in 10 mins all saying the same thing, I must type faster :D

[cap603]

Thanks for all the advice. I suppose more patience and practice is in order. I did first try the 25mm ep, since that is all that came with the Orion (USA) scope. I acquired a 10mm and Barlow via ebay a few days ago. Here in Western Pennsylvania, the stars seem clear enough. Last night, though it was warm uncomfortably humid, I could see Megrez in Ursa Major, so I assumed I would also be able to make out M51. Although I was impressed by Saturn during "first light," that's the only target I've been able to make out. The scope appears to be collimated properly. I did adjust the main mirror slightly and the "airy disc" is a perfect bull's eye. I was just hoping to see the spiral arms of M51. Guess I'll keep trying. Next week I'll be on holiday on Prince Edward Island, Canada. It lies off the north coast of New Brunswick. Been going there for many years. There is no light pollution and on a clear cool night the stars really pop. Last time I was there a saw several meteors and three or four satellites in about an hour. Thanks again. I'll take all the advice I can get.

[Chris H]

The 25mm will work just fine as your low power eye piece.

[cap603]

I assumed as much according to what I've read, but I haven't been able to see anything impressive with it, yet, save for Saturn. Clearer skies may help, as will a bit more patience.

[John]

.. I was just hoping to see the spiral arms of M51.. .

It is possible with an 8" scope under truly dark skies but details such as this don't jump out at you until you get to larger apertures. I've not managed to see the spiral arms yet with my 10" scope but they were clear last year with a 12" under dark skies - that was using a 22mm Nagler eyepiece then a 13mm Ethos eyepiece.

This year under the dark skies of the SGL5 star party I had a look at M51 with a 20" scope - the galaxy and it's companion filled the FoV with spiral arms and dust lanes galore

[GuillermoBarrancos]

It is possible with an 8" scope under truly dark skies but details such as this don't jump out at you until you get to larger apertures. I've not managed to see the spiral arms yet with my 10" scope but they were clear last year with a 12" under dark skies - that was using a 22mm Nagler eyepiece then a 13mm Ethos eyepiece.

This year under the dark skies of the SGL5 star party I had a look at M51 with a 20" scope - the galaxy and it's companion filled the FoV with spiral arms and dust lanes galore

Heh... well I think 20inch is pretty much out of league for most of us here.

[acey]

The spiral arms can be seen with an 8" given a sufficiently dark sky and sufficient magnification. I've done it with a limiting magnitude of 6 and a magnification of x150. But my sky doesn't reach anything like that degree of darkness at this time of year.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I agree with acey: I picked up the spiral arm of M51 leading to its companion under very dark skies, first found it using my 40mm (51x mag, 1.38 deg field of view), and spotted the detail using my Nagler 22mm (90x mag, 0.9 deg field of view).

If you want something spectacular with an 8" try M57 (the Ring nebula) or M13 (one of the best globular clusters, in Hercules). Both are much easier objects than M51, both in terms of locating them, and in surface brightness. M81/82 is also an easier duo of galaxies to pick up.

Good luck