Opinion on Scope and Lens Pack

[LongChop]

Hi,

I'm looking to take the plunge and purchase my first scope.

I was looking at the Heritage 130P FlexTube™ 130mm. Read some good things about this scope for the price.

Sky Watcher Heritage 130P FlexTube™ 130mm (5.1") f/650 Parabolic Dobsonian Telescope (inc book set)

I have also seen a lens pack you can get for half price if purchasing a Sky Watcher scope but didn't really know if it would be worth it for the extra £70 or if I should just buy some of the items seperately.

http://www.opticalvision.co.uk/content.asp?SEC_ID=12

Many thanks

Kevin

[SteveL]

I`d look at getting it from somewhere (anywhere!) other than Scopes And Skies....

[robhal9000]

Hi,

That offer at optical vision is few years old, I don't know if it is still available. Almost everybody starting, looks at or buys EP kits. I find with them you are paying for some EPs in there that will see very little use. Most people have about 3 Eps that they use almost exclusively and you will get a couple of good mid priced EPs for the price of the kit and those will serve you well.

FLO our forum sponsor link at top. Give them a ring they should be able to advise about the offer and I believe they also stock the scope. No free books though.

I have ordered stuff from SnS and the worst I can say about them personally are; they, like many other astro websites, lists items on their webpage as being in stock even when they are not. I have never tried to phone them but others have and had difficulty getting through. The main problem seems to be that they are not very good if there are problems with your order. search the forums they are few threads with horror stories.

The scope looks fine. It is a small reflector and it is a 'fast' scope (steeper light cone) and less forgiving of budget EPs. I would expect the EPs with the scope to be pretty poor (tight eye relief, narrow FoV and lacking in contrast). It will probably need to collimated and in use you will have to keep moving the tube to keep the object in the field of view. Advantages include a wider field of view at low powers and, of course, price. You may want to look at the Skywatcher Skyliner 150P Dobsonian for a few pounds more (FLO 180). It is a slower scope and more forgiving of cheaper EPs and it has a bigger mirror.

Do your research before deciding on a first scope and remember there are extras that you may want or need to make your astro experience more enjoyable, so budget for them.

[Bizibilder]

I concur! The eyepieces in that particular kit are not of particularly good quality - you would be far better off buying a couple of eyepieces in the £40-£80 range that you will get far more use from. If you buy carefully you can get eyepieces in that price range that will serve you for years.

The 25mm eyepiece that comes with the scope is reasonable, the 10mm and barlow will probably need replacing quite quickly as they are not that good.

[robhal9000]

Hi,

I wasn't sure, but I was figured how good could they be at 130 for the scope:-)

The best deal on decent EPs seem to the paradigm range sold new via Ebay for less than forty quid. Everybody that posts about them are well impressed.

1.25" 25mm 60 Degree Explorer Dual ED Eyepiece on eBay (end time 10-May-10 11:19:19 BST)

[Moonshane]

Hi,

I wasn't sure, but I was figured how good could they be at 130 for the scope:-)

The best deal on decent EPs seem to the paradigm range sold new via Ebay for less than forty quid. Everybody that posts about them are well impressed.

1.25" 25mm 60 Degree Explorer Dual ED Eyepiece on eBay (end time 10-May-10 11:19:19 BST)

I agree

these are great eyepieces for the money

they come up on here as well occasionally for £25 approx.

[Astorix]

Wow great heads up on the Ep might get my self one!

[LongChop]

Thank you for all the replys, deffinately food for thought.

I thought the EPs might not be of the best quality and as said probably won't use most or have favorites and only use them. I think they are made by Helios as the manual in the back ground of the picture says Helios.

From the reviews I read I though the Skywatcher 130p was a good scope to get, one of the reviews I read people were compairing it to an 8" ovbiously saying the 8" was better and brighter but that the skywatcher performed well.

Ovbiously I would like a bigger mirror as in the long run wouldn't have to upgrade so quickly so would save money in a round about way in the long run, but budget is my issue.

I did see this one on ebay, 5inch Skywatcher Helios refractor on eBay (end time 24-Apr-10 18:10:24 BST)

Same size mirror but refactor and better EPs I would think and if not maybe save a bit of money if doesn't go to high to buy a better EP. Couldn't find any info on it look on the web though. Maybe I'm better off waiting see what comes up on the second hand front.

Thanks again for all the replys.

[robhal9000]

Hi,

Cheap refractors tend to be pretty poor compared with Maks/SCTs and Newtonians for the same money. Don't use one myself but most people serious about a refractor tend to look at APOs which are very expensive.

In astro you tend to get what you pay for, although you can come across the occasional item that performs well out of it's price bracket. Second hand is a very viable option.

With summer coming in you may want to look at pair of 10x50 binos and a free copy of stellarium (google it)you will see and learn a lot and be in a better position to decide on your scope later in the year.

[LukeSkywatcher]

The SW Heritage is a great scope (IMHO). Its small but powerful. Its well worth the money you pay for it. I have to say that i dont find the SW EPs that come with the scope too bad. The 25mm is really quite good.

Most kit barlows are crud. The TAL barlows are suprisingly good for their cost (£30-40).

Of course there are bigger and better scopes for sale for not much more then the Heritage but i love it because it fits my needs perfectly.

[Moonshane]

I think the 130P is a good scope from what people say but I agree that you'll eventually want more aperture.

I have in some ways 'the best' of both worlds in that I have a 120mm refractor plus a 12" dob, although most astronomers are not satisfied with the gear they have - it's part of the fun, wanting more! I use the refractor for double stars, planets, moon and also a few of the DSOs which are brighter and more obvious. this refractor is very like the one you have seen on Ebay I think and at F8.3 (it looks the longer tube (focal length 1000mmm) to me) it does not suffer much from chromatic aberration which is I think the general problem with achromatic (cheaper) scopes rather than apochromatic (dearer and almost certainly better). I doubt the eyepieces will be much better than the cheapos (but probably OK to start with) with the new 130p

the dob is great for all of the above (although sometimes a bit worse than the refractor on doubles) and brilliant for DSOs as you'd expect. The refractor is definitely sharper than the dob but gathers much less light as you'd expect.

personally, I'd recommend as large a dobsonian as you can handle - depends if you want to go mobile or not, although I'd readily take my 12" dob out to a dark site. maybe an 8" dob used would be a good start such as Dobsonians - Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian

it sounds like you had planned to spend about £200 and you'd be likely to get one on here for about that or less if you bought off here used. you'd not regret it in my view. you would need a barlow lens I think (also cheap) and you'd be pretty set for a while. a red dot finder/telrad/rigel quikfinder would help no end as would a right angled finder eventually (less craning of the neck). don't forget a moon filter. there's always a birthday/christmas/anniversary coming up :0)

you can always download star maps for free online and as I think someone said, Stellarium is free and great to use.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Essentially to stave off apeture fever (which will see you wanting to upgrade your scope faster then you can blink) its always a good idea to go for the most apeture you can afford and physically handle.

If you can afford it and can handle the size etc of say a SW150-200P.............then that would be a better deal then the Heritage because you get a lot more apeture for very little in price difference.

You wont want to replace this size scope as quickly as you would the Heritage.

BUT..............as i said.....................IF budget and other factors only allow you to buy the Heritage then you will not be dissapointed with it. Its a great performer and when you are observing with it you forget that its such a small scope (in actual physical size). I would image that it really does give its big brothers a run for their money.

[Moonshane]

nice one Paul

much more concise than my usual ramblings!!

don't forget how dark your sky is makes a big difference too Kevin. I may be wrong but I suspect in Ireland, Paul you have great skies with much less light pollution than much of the rest of the British Isles? I agree that you will in no way be disappointed with the 130. it's a much used adage but a small well used scope will show you more than a humongous light bucket gathering dust in a corner. no matter which scope you choose, there's lots to see and even more so if you have good sky.

you pays your money and makes yer choice. the good thing is, you can always sell on here and get some of your money back if you make a mistake and if you buy used you don't lose too much either.

a word of warning on what to expect. the images you see in books will only be achieved with a camera. even if you looked down the hubble (if that were possible) you'd see everything (bar some stars and planets) in monochrome shades of black white and grey. the reason is that there's just not enough light to stimulate the cones in your eyes to recognise colours. also, the level of detail increase with time exposures on cameras so what is a gorgeous swirl of sharp stars and dust in a photo is a small light whispy breath of air in the scope - with a few notable exceptions. still, when looking at a globular cluster which is 30,000 light years away and 10 billion years old, you seem to forget that you cannot see the total detail of a photo.

oh no, I've rambled again.......

[Astro_Baby]

Hmmm the Helios on ebay will most likelygo for around £150 which is what most of them sell through for on ebay. Personally unless it went super cheap I'd be wary - too easy to get caught on ebay. Its hard to see what the eyepieces are with that scope - thy could well be just the standard eyepieces supplied when the scope was new in which case they will be 'adequate' but wont be top notch stuff.

I;d steer clear of the eyepieces kit offer. Last time I looked some of the EPs were VERY small (like 2mm) which would push most scopes too hard to be of much use and the LER eyepieces are not the best that Skywatcher do (though they do make some great eyepieces as well).

Is there a particular reason you are looking at the Skywatcher heritage scope ? Is it budget, space requirements etc.

I'd have said the 130 long tube version (900mm long) might represent a better scope in some ways or the Skywatcher 130P. Both of these ocme with an EQ mount. That might be either a blessing or a curse depending on your point of view. ie a Dob mounted 130 is simpler to use but an EQ mount might be better in the long run even though they can be a pain to start with.

I think before advising I;d want to know how much you want to/can afford to spend, whether you need to travel to a site to use it, what you want to look at etc

I know I am maybe over enamoured tight now about my TAL 100RS but theres a scope that gives you some solid quality, would probably come with some good quality eyepieces and accessories and a sold mount all for around £160-£190 2nd hand.

the TAL 1 is a 4" refractor with a good reputation but before I;d reccomend it I;d want to know what you want to look at and what your expectations are.

[LongChop]

Mmm 200p looks very nice so does the TAL 100RS. I've got the wants so I could end up spending maybe £200. My personal bank manager thinks I'm nuts anyway wanting to get a scope, but I'm fascinated by space; stars, planets, theoretical space like dark matter/energy, black holes, what gravity is ect.

I have a pair of binos 10 x 50 but they are probably 30-40+ years old I though. They are Pentax 10x50 field 5.5, look like war binos, don't know if that will fit the bill. I'll get a copy of stellarium though.

I was looking at the SW for price and size really. Seemed very good for the price (was looking at skywatcher explorer 130p previously but though mmm maybe spending a little more than I should and this was less expensive and got good reviews) and liked it for its size for protability can see myself taking it away with me if I holiday in England to some darker skys. No holidays planned just thinking ahead.

What I want to look is probably mainly planets, the moon, other moons if possible. But in saying that I'm open to everthing really so I start with planets but then I'd probably like to view more, sorry I know that isn't very helpful, the talk of the inexperanced.

I live near London, where Kent and London become confused, London borough, Kent address, so light polluition is a factor. Advice there would be welcome if these scopes mentioned don't cope with light pollution very well.

[Moonshane]

one thing I'd definitely do is go and see some scopes before you buy. the binoculars you have should be OK for now and are a good starting point before you buy a scope. you'll see Jupiter's moons (probably 4) when it shows a bit later in the summer. a good way to use them is elbows on the arm rests of a reclining garden chair if you have one. otherwise, get a quilt and lie on the patio or what have you and look up. this way you'll get a lot more stability.

there must be an astro society near you and I bet they'd be willing to allow you to look through a few to see what you like to view.

light pollution is an issue but whether larger or smaller aperture is better for LP I think is open to debate.

my LP is not as bad as yours probably but it's not great (I live near Stockport and Manchester) but I always find the larger aperture dob lets me see more.

Astro-Baby makes some excellent points and obviously lives in a space a bit more like yours for LP.

good luck whatever you choose.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I may be wrong but I suspect in Ireland, Paul you have great skies with much less light pollution than much of the rest of the British Isles?

Certainly in parts of Ireland we have brilliantly dark skies but they are as far and few between as in England,Scotland and Wales or any other country in the world. Dublin city is a lot SMALLER then most cities in England,Scotland,Wales or the rest of the world but our light pollution is the same for our size.

Its all relative (as Einstein would say).

Yes i am blessed that i live 15-20 Km south of Dublin city in the "leafy suburbs"........but i have my own light pollution to contend with from local strretlights and roads/motorways.

So for me......................my light pollution problem is no less then any other.

Anyways.................i have found that my SW light pollution filter which i bought from FLO for very little works AMAZINGLY for me from my location.

I have been to dark sky locations in Ireland and observed the night sky with the naked eye and damn near wet myself with excitement on just how much i could see with the naked eye.

Those locations also exist in every country around the world.

Sorry....................what was the question?

[Moonshane]

nice one mate

there's nothing like drifting off with glazed eyes to a better place ;0)

I reckon this is why most of us skywatch.

I'd love to get to a dark site sometime.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I'd love to get to a dark site sometime.

Ive never been to one with any scope or bins. I do ALL my observing from my front/back garden.

My back garden is great(ish).............but my front garden has streetlights messing things up BUT my SkyWatcher Light Pollution Filter takes care of that problem very nicely

[Moonshane]

mine's like that as the gardens of two streets back onto each other. if no-one turns on a light it's really not too bad.

[orionhunter]

i agree with the above comments about a bigger/better scope for similar money.

ive got the SW 150p dob, for 120 quid. 3 months old and like new.

the SW 130 (p or m) is also great value for the money.

[Mr Dobby]

Hi,

Sky Watcher Heritage 130P FlexTube™ 130mm (5.1") f/650 Parabolic Dobsonian Telescope (inc book set)

I have also seen a lens pack you can get for half price if purchasing a Sky Watcher scope but didn't really know if it would be worth it for the extra £70 or if I should just buy some of the items seperately.

http://www.opticalvision.co.uk/content.asp?SEC_ID=12

Many thanks

Kevin

Longchop

In anticipation of buying a skywatcher scope I was aware of the EP set, I rang Optical Vision on Monday to see if it was still available, the terms of the offer are, send a photocopy of your receipt with cheque and covering note. "THE ORDER MUST BE PLACED WITHIN FOUR MONTHS OF TELESCOPE PURCHASE" IT IS STILL AVAILABLE, however I think it's worth reading the above members comments about the EP's, initially I was looking at this one, but something made me question it, and quite frankly from this thread i think i have my answer from whats been said, albeit I am a newbie and novice, I personally won't be going for this one, and will wait too see what route I will go when the scope arrives and how the supplied EP's and Barlow perform, then I will be asking directions where to go at a later date for some new EP's, hope this helps

[pvaz]

EP sets have their merits. If you observe alone and have no contact with other astronomers, to try gear for free, there's really no cheaper way to get 1st hand experience with a wide variety of EPs/filters to find out witch ones suit you better.

If you buy the set and accept it's part of a learning process that will allow you to spend your money wiselly in the future when you build a small, but well planed, set of quality EPs then it may be a good option, speacially if you can find one 2nd hand. Otherwise you're better off taking advice and buy quality EPs for the most useful FLs based on other people's opinion.

Then again, most scopes come with 2 EPs and a barlow so that gives you 4 FLs to try out which may be enough.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Paulo is very correct. If like me are a newbie to astronomy without any contact to others through local groups etc), then an EP/filter kit is a great way to learn about what works and what doesnt for you and your scope.

I have the Celestron EP kit and i have to say that as a virtual newbie to telescopic astronomy that the Plossel EP's in the kit are really pretty good considering the price of the whole kit. The 2X Barlow supplied was/is absolute Rubbish.........so i have invested in a 2X TAL Barlow which works FANTASTICALLY.

The great thing about EP kits is that they pretty much hold their value....so if you buy one, you can sell it in a couple of yrs to another "newbie" and noty lose on it.

I am very happy with my Celestron EP's and dont ever plan on selling them.

Revelation and Zhumell also sell a very good EP kit

EP kits will either last you a lifetime or in a couple og yrs you can sell them on to someone without losing too much money.

I have to say that the 32mm Celeston EP suplied in my kit is my most favourite EP.

I LOVE my widefield views.

My second favourite EP is the 25mm super wide EP that came with my SkyWatcher.

Honestly......EP kits are so cheap and pretty good that i think you will be hard pressed to part with one when you buy it.

[ZOG]

that Ebay refractor is up to £200 which IMHO is well over the top.

Especially when you can get this one, brand new, for £215

Startravel - Skywatcher Startravel 120 (AZ3)

Whatever you decide to get, enjoy it.