Who makes eyepieces?

[The Warthog]

Does anyone have a handy guide to who makes eps for whom? A lot of the odd brands of ep on the market look like some brand names, or like each other. I know there are fewer manufacturers than brand names, but does anyone know how the various products are grouped together in terms of whose are whose?

[FLO]

I would probably be shot if I answered that one :?

Besides, it is not as simple as that. Whilst it is common for big names to go to the same manufacturer, the manufacturer can offer and the big name can specify different grades of glass/coatings.

The orthoscopics we were discussing recently are a case in point. It is not enough to assume all are equal and simply choose the cheapest.

[The Warthog]

Hmmm. I wondered aboout that. My Antares and Celestron 6mm eps were superficially similar, but the Antares had a slight edge in performance. They may or may not come from the same mfg, I suppose. How many ways can you make an ep with a chrome tube and a black top?

Still, I would assume some manufacturers have better processes and quality control than others?

[GordonCopestake]

I think the usual Synta/GSO make a fair proportion. Others can add the other names im sure

[GazOC]

Different companies buying the "same" eyepiece from the manufacturers and just badging them is a lot more common than most poeple think.

As Steve said, the orthos are a good example. At least 3 different well known brands of ortho are the same eyepeice, coatings apart.

[Brass n glass]

A few years ago I bought a Baader Eudiascopic Plossl followed soon afterwards by a slightly cheaper Antares one. They are clearly from the same range, and a trawl of some adverts suggested that Celestron Ultima and Parks Gold Series were very closely related to the two I had bought. The only visible differences were in the colour and typeface of what was printed on them, although the Parks ones are prettied up with gold paint . Maybe when distributors place their orders at the Japanese factory they can specify particular coatings as well.

The same thing happens with other optical goods. I have a small grey Olympus ED Tracker binocular which used to be sold in blue as a Vixen Aero and appeared for a time as a black Bushnell as well.

[fmeireso]

They are probably all from thesame manufacturer.

Fact is i have 2 ultrascopics, same breed of those you mentioned. The housing is thesame as the Baader Ortho's. Even the boxen are thesame in color and texture. So i suspect that at least the Baader ortho and ultrascopics come from thesame manufacturer...somewhere in Japan...

[John]

This discussion reminds of a comedy sketch by the "Not the 9 O'clock News" team which featured a "Real Ale" pub which offered about 20 different ales, each with weird names like "Old Vole Strangler" and similar. After a prolonged discussion with the Landlord about the merits of each the discerning customer chose one and the Landlord proceeded to pull the pint. At this point the camera viewpoint switched to behind the bar where if was revealed that all the pipes led to a single barrel of ale !!.

I reckon that a number of ranges of astro eyepieces are like that - ostensibly lots of different ones to choose from but ultimately all from the same source.

Tele Vue might be an exception as they have obviously exclusively licenced a manufacturer (or two perhaps) to make Al Nagler's designs.

John,

North Somerset

[The Warthog]

Funny, there was a pub in Port Dalhousie that did just that. They never got caught, but are no longer in business, having sold a while ago. I know about this because my daughter used to date the young man who changed the kegs.

I doubt that there is only one manufacturer, but there may be only three or four. It's the same when you go and buy an appliance at a department store. The microwave ovens are made by a very few manufacturers who put a slightly different face on the product for the retailer, with the retailer's brand on it.

[John]

I agree Mr WH - there's probably a handfull of manufacturers at most.

John,

North Somerset

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

But considering the quality issues, it would be far easier for a manufacturer to push the lower quality products off to a less demanding client rather than scrap them. If the upmarket client were to demand only the best quality articles, then the manufacturer could sort the finished articles by quality, ship the best 25% to the client, then sell on half of what's left to a less demanding public under their own brand name. The nastiest 37.5% go in the bin. Joe Public couldn't tell the two apart apart from the labels as they came off the same production line, but there would be a quality control difference. Granted you could get two that were almost the same if one of the top 25% only just squeezed in and the other one only just missed the cutoff, but on average the quality supplier would deliver better quality gear.

Captain Chaos

[FLO]

It seems it is not only the quality of glass and coatings that vary. I have just spotted a range of orthos that are identical in appearance to the Baaders (including box!) selling for £29.99!! Then I noticed that they have only 40 degrees FOV, compared to the Baaders 47 degrees....

[StarMan1701]

Don't forget the Chinese/Taiwanese copies of Japanese designs. They may look superficially similar, but the Japanese eyepieces tend to better in every way except price. The Vixen Lanthanums and the Celestron X-Cels spring to mind...

Lee.

[The Warthog]

Don't forget the Chinese/Taiwanese copies of Japanese designs. They may look superficially similar, but the Japanese eyepieces tend to better in every way except price. The Vixen Lanthanums and the Celestron X-Cels spring to mind...

Lee.

Sorry, don't quite get that. Which is which? I ask because X-Cels are the backbone of my ep kit at the moment.

[FLO]

The Vixens are Japanese...

[fmeireso]

Sorry, don't quite get that. Which is which? I ask because X-Cels are the backbone of my ep kit at the moment.

X-cels ? Did you notice severe blacking outs with those ep's? It is said that the X-cells are ver similar to Epics. I tested a 5 mm Epic once, terrible blacking out. I found it unuable, actually. However i do not know about the other focals lengts. A 5 mm ultrascopic was much,much better.

[The Warthog]

Sorry, don't quite get that. Which is which? I ask because X-Cels are the backbone of my ep kit at the moment.

X-cels ? Did you notice severe blacking outs with those ep's? It is said that the X-cells are ver similar to Epics. I tested a 5 mm Epic once, terrible blacking out. I found it unuable, actually. However i do not know about the other focals lengts. A 5 mm ultrascopic was much,much better.

I do experience kidney-beaning with these eps. It means I have to use all the eye relief afforded by the ep, as the problem seems to get worse when my eye is in close. However, I find them far from unusable. I am going to replace them with more expensive eps as time goes by, but I will continue to use them with satisfaction until then.

[StarMan1701]

Hi Warthog,

I didn't mean that the X-Cels were rubbish, just that they are apparently copies of the Vixen Lanthanums.

I've heard about the 'kidney bean' problem from several people who use, or have used the X-Cels, but I have not experienced this for myself as I have never tried them. Strangely, however, I do not suffer from this problem with my Lanths.

Lee.

[The Warthog]

Hi Warthog,

I didn't mean that the X-Cels were rubbish, just that they are apparently copies of the Vixen Lanthanums.

I've heard about the 'kidney bean' problem from several people who use, or have used the X-Cels, but I have not experienced this for myself as I have never tried them. Strangely, however, I do not suffer from this problem with my Lanths.

Lee.

It is a drawback, and I beleieve Gordon said he gave up on them. I found it fairly easy to overcome, and it isn't much of a problem now. Oddly, I didn't notice it the first couple of times I used them. Maybe I just didn't think about it at the time.

I have mapped out a future that involves replacing the X-Cels with more expensive eps down the line. I hope to replace the 5mm X-Cel with a Radian or a Nagler. In the meantime, I've used the 5mm with a Barlow to get 300x out of my Newt, with good results. The kidney-beaning does get worse when I use the Barlow, though. OTOH, I've taken afocal pics through the 8mm, and it worked fine. For the money, I think the X-Cels are good value.

[GordonCopestake]

Yup, i couldn't live with them due to kidney beaning. Some people dont mind though, it's personal perference. I had the 5mm X-cel and now have a 4mm radian which is MUCH better for me personally. I'm sure the 4mm nagler is even better but my budget doesn't stretch that far yet

[fmeireso]

Yup, i couldn't live with them due to kidney beaning. Some people dont mind though, it's personal perference. I had the 5mm X-cel and now have a 4mm radian which is MUCH better for me personally. I'm sure the 4mm nagler is even better but my budget doesn't stretch that far yet

Neither could i. The kidney beaning in the 5 mm Epic in daylight was so severe at times it made me a little nautious, really, no kidding. It was much better at night but still anoying.Now the Epic was not so sharp as the 5 mm ultrascopic too. Still it was a beauty on the outside and the FOV was bigger then the ultrascopic.

2 things i don't like in eyepieces, too short eyerelief and kidney beaning.

Personaly i think that if you need the eyerelief you are much better of with Vixen LV or Orion lanthanums. A Radian is probably still better but expensive. But that's just my opinion.

I wonder who makes the Epics....