Newcomer purchasing first telescope

[Zoo]

...looks like I have found the correct site for advice.

I am a complete newcomer to Astronomy. I've always yearned a telescope and am now in a position to puchase. Looking at a Meade ETX-LS and a Celestron CPC 800 GPS.

As a professional photographer - I know that you take your choice and pay your money. I am looking for a telescope that I won't have to upgrade within a few months. Any advice, along with dealers will be greatfully received. I live in London and South Norfolk regions. This is only for viewing etc - not for 'professional' use. I would however like to capture images. Many thanks in advance. I will watch the forums and keep you posted with my progress.

Zoo

[arad85]

Hi,

Welcome, and yes, there's some pretty good advice available here

What do you want to do (visual, imaging, combination of both?) and see (planets, deep sky stuff) with the telescope? Also, what's your budget? You should be aware that astrophotography is a slippery and expensive slope....

[Zoo]

Thanks arad85 - I am very aware of the costs - I 'ride the tiger 'every year with my camera equipment and upgrades.

I am only interested (to begin with) in viewing - occasional capture. I want to familiarise myself with the sky at night first. Budget around £1500 to start although I am a sucker for the bolt-ons!

Not sure if these telescopes are capable of capturing the images 'digitally' through a feed or whether I need a physical mount for camera.

[themos]

I am looking for a telescope that I won't have to upgrade within a few months.

There's only one:

Orion 50 Monster Dobsonian Telescope | Orion Telescopes & Binoculars

[Zoo]

can that be mobile mounted?

[arad85]

Hi Zoo,

If you want to do much in terms of capture, you really need a German Equatorial Mount. "Serious" (i.e. those who are a little bit down the slope of astrophotography) tend to have either a HEQ5 or EQ6 mount and attach them to PCs to slew around the sky and track with a second guide scope. They also tend to image with refractors. If you think you might want to get into this, then something like this: Pro Series - Skywatcher Evostar 80ED DS-Pro OTA on a syntrek or full goto HEQ5/6 would do you very nicely. It would also mean you didn't buy a cheaper mount, get frustrated with it, sell it on and then buy a HEQ5/6 instead (been there, have the T-shirt).

The downside of this is that you don't have much aperture for visual, so you end up pushing magnification with shorter length eyepieces to get your image size up.

If you're doing visual, you would probably be better off with a newtonian (biggest bang for buck), either on a German Equatorial Mount (GEM) or on a dobsonian mount. The dobsonian would be the cheapest way (the 12" dobsonian 'scope in my sig is available new for £510 for example) and allow you to see more than the refractor. Having one on a GEM like this: Reflectors - Skywatcher Explorer 250PX EQ6 PRO would allow you to have the mount for astrophotography as well.

Personally, I don't like reflectors on GEMs as you have to keep rotating the tube to get it in a comfortable viewing position.

Careful though, once 'scopes get bigger, they get heavier. My 12" dob weighs around 40kgs - 20ish for the base and another 20ish for the tube. It's great for me as I don't have to carry it far, but I wouldn't like to have it where I had 3 flights of stairs to carry it down each night before use. The same can be said for the HEQ5/6 - if memory serves they are around 20-25kgs just for the mount too...

Also, don't forget that you will probably want some eyepieces too and possibly a finder if you have a non-goto 'scope. Budget another £150 for an eyepiece set and finder (or just start off with what you have and see where it goes).

As to goto, it depends if you think you need it or not. I'm fortunate that I live in reasonably dark skies, so I can see the constellations and other stars reasonably well. A star chart and a decent finder are all I need. If you live in the skyglow of London, goto may be much more useful to you....

[pvaz]

Well since you know a lot from photography then you can probably jump right away for an imaging setup.

I been thinking of making the plunge to photography and had read a few books along the way. For now I'm a pure observer. Anyway here is imaging 101 so you can have an idea of what you need.

1) A mount capable of tracking and very steady for accurate tracking. Ideally you'll be taking exposures in the 5 to 15 minutes range so that is a must. Otherwise you get star trails instead of pinpoint stars. Over 5 min exposures usually require a 2nd cheap scope, an extra camera and a laptop to guide the mount via software and provide perfect guiding. You can get good results unguided by using shorter exposures. To check this effect put one of your cameras on a tripod, use the longest FL lens you got, like a 200mm or higher, and take a 30 second exposure. The strars will display as circular curves around the north pole. This is caused by the earths rotation. The german equatorial mount (EQ) rotates in the opposite direction at same speed to cancel this.

2) A scope adequate to the type of objects you wish to photograph. An APO refractor is ideal for Deep Sky Objects (DSOs) and a MAK/SCT is ideal for planetary work. For planetary a modified web cam provides more magnification. Planets don't need the long exposure. They benefit from large amounts of captures and later stacking them with software. The usual method is make a movie, split it to frames, use registrax to stack them and produce a final image. A DSLR is used on DSOs.

For visual a larger aperture reflector scope will allow you to see more, however it will require a better mount when imaging (it's heavy so requires a stronger mount for accurate tracking) and will also require a better mirror alignment (collimation) for sharpness. A small APO refrator does not require collimation and is lighter on the mount.

The basic recomended gear advised here is a Skywatcher HEQ5 mount and a 80mm APO refractor. Lots of people have great results with them.

My best suggestion now is for you to get the book "Making every photon count". It walks you through every thing, from technics for capture, required equipment and software processing technics. Reading it will save you a lot of head hakes and cash.

Be sure to wait for more experienced advice here. My knowledge on this is theoretical and nothing is better then experience.

[Zoo]

wow - great responses everyone - and thank you.

I will digest this tonight when home.

[Wizz]

The CPC 800 scopes are a really good price right now and will show you lots and lots of stuff to wet your appetite. Optics are usually good on Celestron scopes and should keep you happy for awhile. As previously mentioned a German Equatorial Mount (GEM) are the best for astrophotography but as mentioned again astrophotography can work out quite expensive. My choice would be go the CPC route and get a couple of decent eyepieces you can still do astrophotography with a DSLR to a degree with that scope and if you feel the need to get in deeper and you decide to sell the CPC you won't have lost much money.

[Zoo]

Wizz - great advice. You have backed up everything that I have (so far) gleened.

[Wizz]

Glad I could help.

Now go spend some money and keep us informed on your final purchase.

[pvaz]

The CPC 800 is a great scope I would very much like to have for observation. But the Alt-Az mount on it will leave trails when used for long exposure, the mount moves in zig-zag while tracking.

The scope is also a slow scope (f/10) which will require longer exposures. Most people use an f/6 or less to maximize the light gathered and reduce exposure time. You can however use a focal reducer with it to achieve a lower f ratio.

EDIT: corrected the typo.

[themos]

typo above: f/10 is slow, not fast.

[Nexus 6]

I agree with Wizz. If you want to do mainly visual observing then the combination of a good quality scope together with good quality EPs is very rewarding

Being a noviice myself I decided this was the to start. I have had a go with the photography side of things but still prefer seeing for myself.

Good luck with whatever scope you go for.

Alan

Celestron cpc 925

Celestron Nextstar 6se

Vixen/Televue EPs

Canon 1000D

[Zoo]

Thanks everyone - I have decided to go for the following - CPC 800GPS and mains power supply, NIKON T RING, SCT T adaptor , Meade 5000 14mm plossl eyepiece and a Dew shield. Will receive this week and get out this weekend to familiarise myself with. Watch out for lots more questions!! Pvaz - thanks for the advice too. I will get myself used to the scope before I go down the GEM route. I have a few old digital Nikons that I will play with and see where the limitations lie, before I look for something to attach the Hasselblad to.

[arad85]

Hi Zoo,

If you really are after attaching a camera to it, you would be far better off with a GEM to start with. I know it's your money, but with the CPC you will have to start afresh (i.e. sell the unit as a whole) or go mount it on a wedge (which is costly to do well and more limiting as you then have to buy other alt/az combinations if you want to change scope).

Just trying to save you money here

[Space Bat]

Good choice

Just a word of caution - I have come across a few professional photographers in my life, there seems to be a universal instinctive habit / desire to always wipe clean your lens before taking your shot

The corrector coatings are tough and quite durable but should be treated with kid gloves, dust, condensation spots, do not affect the viewing through the scope, until the optical surface of the corrector is really dirty.

You should clean periodically as per the instructions in the book, which would be along similar lines to how you would clean optical surfaces in camera's

Have fun you're getting a great scope

Chris

[russ]

The CPC800 is a great choice to get going with for visuals. Should keep you happy for a long time.

If you decide you want to dip into some imaging at a later date the investment needn't be large and you DONT need to part with the CPC.

A Vixen GP or Skywatcher HEQ5 German EQ mount are an excellent basis to start imaging and they come up for £250 with drives. And on top of that stick a Skywatcher ED80 or William Optics SD66 Apo refractor, both of which come up secondhand for £150+. The refractors are small and light with short focal lengths and the perfect scopes to hook up with your Nikon DSLR. So only £400 to get going. You'll lose that and some selling the CPC.

And all this means you can keep the CPC for visual or a dip into planetary imaging. And the other 'rig' for imaging. A two rig setup is the way to go if you can afford it.

Russ

[pvaz]

Or you could get the same telescope on an HEQ5 PRO GOTO for 1602£.

Optical Tube Assemblies - Celestron C8 XLT Optical Tube Assembly

That way you would have the scope you like, all the electronic features (goto and tracking) you would have with the fork mount and a better suited mount for photography. All with the benefit of knowing you can use it with any scope you want, or even have a side by side (2 scopes) setup if you move on to auto guiding. (As long as you don't go above the max weight load of the mount.)

That way you would make no compromises in the visual part of the hobby and would get a much more versatile mount. It's a 100£ extra but may save you a lot of money in the long run.

[brantuk]

The CPC800's a great scope - you wont be dissapointed with the views - I can't comment on the photography side of things, but you can get a wedge and reducer for it. Setup and goto are excellent and the tracking (highly accurate for viewing) can be pec'd for photography - though I have yet to try imaging with it.

[Zoo]

Thanks for the advice SpaceBat - believe me, when I am cleaning the sensor on this - H3DII-50 - I treat it with care!!

Can't wait to get my scope now. I really appreciate everyone's help, advice and encouragement. I think this is the start of a 'long upgrade' project.

[Space Bat]

Thanks for the advice SpaceBat - believe me, when I am cleaning the sensor on this - H3DII-50 -

Just seen the cost of those - you could buy 2 or 3 wives or one camel at that price.....

[Zoo]

yup - and I have just upgraded to the 60 million pixel H3dII-60 - comes next month.

Boys - toys - camels then wives

[Zoo]

correction - that's meant to read "Boys and their toys...."

[Space Bat]

Well if you don't get the Astronomy/Astrophotography bug - you will always have one big telephoto lense that should give you bragging rights with your circle....