80mm APO's..... so many to choose!

[GordonCopestake]

I'm in the market for a little 80mm APO to act as my grab and go scope and provide nice wide field views. I was looking at the William Optics Zenith Star II ED 80 (deep breath) scopes however it seems there are lots of clones out there.

The straight WOZSII80ED is £479.99 from Ian King

however theres also the (much cheaper) Anteres Sentinel for a piffling £199.99

I doubt these use the same optics as the price is massivly different. Anyone know?

Then theres the Moonfish 80ED for £395.00 now i think this is the same as the original WO ZS 80 ED (not the II version?)

And THEN theres the Revelation 80 for £399.99.

Then after all these beautiful scopes i come back to the UGLY synta 80ED which is in a huge ugly tube but has better FPL53 optics.

I'm all confused. Are all these 'scopes identical (other than the synta one) apart from the rebranding? Which is best and why?

Any clarification would be helpful!

[russ]

Not all identical Gordon.

Revelation Apo and Moonfish are one in the same scope.

The Sentinel is a clone of the original WO ZS 80 Achro

The WO ZS ED II use the same glass as the Moonfish/Revelation Apo but definitely not the same scope

The Synta ED80 has better glass than all of them but comes packaged rather badly.

Ultimate choice would be the Sentinel with the William Optics Apograde kit. You'll have a lens to match Synta ED80 but the mechanics and looks of the William Optics Zenithstar. The Apograde kit also adds a Microfocuser to the Sentinel. But total cost will be £530 although you may get something back by selling the original Sentinel lens cell.

Logical choicewould be Ric's Moonfish or the Revelation Apo. At the moment both are £395, although Telescope House say the Revelation will rise to £429 once stocks arrive. Ric has stocks already.

The Synta is dirt cheap compared to the rest, easily undercutting them all and probably still has the best lens/optics to boot.

Russ

[GordonCopestake]

Thanks for the info Russ,

does the APOgrade fit the Revelation/moonfish 80? Not that i'de want to upgrade any time soon but personally i find those scopes the best astheticlly. Is the WO ZS ED II a better scope mechaniclly than the Revelation 80? The WO would retain it's resale value more i think. But is it worth an extra £80? Hmmm decisions decisions.

Im leaning towards the moonfish as it looks the dogs danglies and has nice(ish) optics. If the APOgrade will fit it i might go that route and upgrade later (or just sell up and buy something completly different which is more likely hehe)

[russ]

does the APOgrade fit the Revelation/moonfish 80

i have no idea. but i do know William Optics made Astronomica remove all reference to the Zenithstar in their ad. William Optics wanted it made clear the scopes weren't the same. I think the optics on the Moonfish would be all you would need straight out the box. No need for the Apograde.

Russ

[GordonCopestake]

Interesting. I'll have to see if anyone can tell me if the WOZSII80ED is the same as the moonfish, other than the brandname they LOOK similar. £80 is £80 though

[GazOC]

What about the Synta with a focuser upgrade? Seems the best of both worlds....

I know, I know, "aethestics" but surely performance comes first?

[GordonCopestake]

To be honest i just dont like the big ugly 100mm tube, but you are right about the optics. If i was a braver man i'de buy a sentinel and a synta ed80 and rip the lens cell out and bodge it to the sentinel tube. But i have 2 left hands when it comes to DIY....

[GazOC]

Try the Celestron model thats got a 90mm tube.

[John]

I thought I had read somewhere that the fatter tube of the ED80 and consequetially deeper baffles was thought a better design for controlling stray light etc ?.

Personally I'd prefer the get the best optics I could and put up with a slightly rough finish - it's not as if the Skywatchers are that crude - they are just not all chrome and brushed alloy. Besides it's mostly dark when I'm using my scope !!!.

John,

North Somerset

[GazOC]

Personally I'd prefer the get the best optics I could and put up with a slightly rough finish - it's not as if the Skywatchers are that crude - they are just not all chrome and brushed alloy. Besides it's mostly dark when I'm using my scope !!!.

Definatly, if you can afford a scope with great optics AND and a nice finish then all well and good but don't sacrifice the optics for the looks.

[GordonCopestake]

The skywatcher ED80 is in that terrible gold tube. The focuser is also dire compared to the WO models and the reduced cost of the tube is negated by the need to change the focuser. Also frankley, whilst the FPL53 optics in the synta scope are better than the FPL51 WO scopes i can live with that for the better fit and finish i think. It's a hard choice between looks and performance!

[Rob]

I really don't like the gold (bling,bling) tube... I have know idea WHY Synta went for gold!. Maybe they were drinking too much champagne when in the boardroom?. I'm looking to upgrade my Sentinel with the Apo upgrade. I've spoken to Ian King about it and understand that its co-designed by TMB (speaks for its self) and has the Fluorite 53 glass with better spherical design than the ED80's lens cell. Plus 1:10 focuser in the kit for good measure!!

Worth it I say!

£349 at Ace Cameras in Bristol by the way!.

Rob

[GordonCopestake]

I've just emailed Ace cameras to see if they have any of the WO ZS Flourites in stock. It seems to me that the red anneversry edition is the same as the original ZS but with the APOgrade prefitted. £640 which is a lot of a little 80mm scope ..... But the resale value is better than the sentinel i think.

How are you finding the SLT mount rob? Any problems at all? Whats the noise like? Is the tracking and GOTO as good as others say it is?

[GordonCopestake]

Which ones that Adam? Is that the spotting scope one? Looks a nice scope but the rack and pinion focuser lets it down IMO

Or the Onyx one? Not heard much about those as they are so new. What glass is the lens? Is it the FPL53 that the synta ED80 uses?

[FLO]

Can I just be shallow and superficial for a mo' and simply say ..... WOW

[GordonCopestake]

It looks like a Williams Optics clone but it had a flourite doublet lens. For the same price you can get the Williams Optics flourite doublet annerversary version which is anodised red rather than black. Not sure which is best but i think the WO scope would have a higher resale value.

[Rob]

I've just emailed Ace cameras to see if they have any of the WO ZS Flourites in stock. It seems to me that the red anneversry edition is the same as the original ZS but with the APOgrade prefitted. £640 which is a lot of a little 80mm scope ..... But the resale value is better than the sentinel i think.

How are you finding the SLT mount rob? Any problems at all? Whats the noise like? Is the tracking and GOTO as good as others say it is?

Hi Gordon,

After my third night I have now 100% nailed the goto. I had to work out that the mount did not favour anything to high on the 3 star alignment, and to make sure they are well spread accross the sky. The goto is around 95% on the nose. I've just got in from an hour & half session, and bagged around 12 targets!.

In short - LOVE IT. The Sentinel sits nice on the mount & I do not experience tripod leg knocking (even on Zenith targets). The mount is ok for stability, it will judder a little after playing around with the focus, but only for 4-5 seconds!. does not really bother me.

Rob

[GordonCopestake]

4-5 seconds is quite high actually. Have you tried tightening the mount up? Where is the flexure?

[russ]

4-5secs is quite high. The GT with the 80ED only wobbles for 2-3secs and the ED OTA is overweight for the mount. As Gordon says, maybe worth checking eveything is tight. Or perhaps your watch is slow

[GordonCopestake]

the ST80 on the GT mount had about 1 second vibration. I appreciate that it's a smaller OTA but that should be possible with the sentinel as it's not much larger and the SLT mounts are more robust than the GT having a proper tripod and a stronger arm.

[russ]

I would say that Celestron will hold its value very nicely indeed compared to the WO. I presume it's a Synta sourced FPL53 lens? Which is good!!!! Either way you're looking at £650 for an 80mm :shock:

[GazOC]

Either way you're looking at £650 for an 80mm :shock:

Thats nearly a secondhand 9.25 SCT!!

As you say mate, anything over 2-3 seconds is too much. Maybe something is loose?

[GordonCopestake]

Discovered that the Vixen ED80SF has the same FPL53 lens as the Synta ED80, ian king sell them on the vixen portamount (one of my choices) for £625. Again, seems a lot but this is likely to be my main scope for the majority of the time so i dont mind spending some money on it. I like vixen products, but the porta mount is completly manual, which has good points and bad points. But then the SLT has good points and bad points too. Hmmm hard choices!

[GazOC]

I think the Vixen ED is the same scope as the Skywatcher ED80. Isn't the portamount Alt/az?

[GordonCopestake]

yup, thats what im after. Quick grab and go really. It's a toss up between the SLT and the porta. Ones GOTO one isn't. The SLT doesn't have manual controls though which puts me off as it doesn't work without power. The porta is 100% manual which means i might spend more time looking for my targets than looking at them. More decisions.