Burnham's Celestial Handbooks.....

[acey]

Thanks for that link Carol - I hadn't known anything about Burnham's life and its very sad end.

I certainly think the Handbook deserves to be on every amateur's shelf - I've had it for a long time. It's a unique creation deserving of much respect and I can see why it has such a following.

I also have to confess, though, that my three volumes have been thumbed very infrequently and are still pristine. It's a book I glance at, but not one I use.

There are three reasons. One, the main one, is that I have other books that serve me better, especially as books to take into the field. My "bible" in this respect is Luginbuhl and Skiff's Observing Handbook.

Another reason is that the astrophysical information in Burnham is often, inevitably, out of date now.

Then there's the layout and style. For me, it's very much a fireside browsing book, with its mixture of tables, text, pictures. And in the text, a mixture of science and, well, rumination.

I think I would have found the book more useful had I been interested in doing a constellation-by-constellation attack on everything worth seeing: DSOs, double stars, variables. But I'm a bit of a DSO obsessive, and the exhaustive Luginbuhl and Skiff is the one for me, together with a good map.

But I'm glad I have Burnham, and it's well worth picking up.

I'd also mention another series I only recently discovered: the Webb Society Observing Handbooks. There are 8 volumes in all, I started by getting the one on "Galaxy Clusters", having seen it listed as an essential reference for Abell hunting. I got mine for about a fiver off Amazon and I have to say it's absolutely brilliant. I immediately set about ordering all the other volumes in the series. These books are also old (from the 70s and 80s) but I reckon I'll be using them for years to come.

But if I were recommending just one book for the serious deep-sky observer, it would be Luginbuhl and Skiff. It's not cheap, but I've had more use from mine than from some eyepieces that cost me more.

[Doc]

Acey is the Luginbuhl and Skiff's Observing Handbook widely available if so where?

Update I found it on Amazon for £33 not a bad buy.

[Merlin66]

The Millenium Atlas in three volumes is a fantastic piece of work.

My copy unfortunately never gets out of its slipcase in the study!

I'd never consider using it at the scope. And I find that CdC and/ or TheSky gives me better charts etc when comparing images inside.

Uranometria is a good compromise, gives faint enough stars and DSO's to work with at the telescope. ( Still use the SkyAtlas to find objects first - star hop, then the Uranometria)

CNebulaX website has a freeware set of atlases which, from memory, that go down to 13 mag.

http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/CNebulaX.htm

[Doc]

The Millennium Star Atlas is £585 on Amazon.I think I just might forget this one

[acey]

Mick, Luginbuhl and Skiff has gone up in price since I got it, but £33 is still a fair price given how much use I've had from it. You can get it for £20 second hand:

luginbuhl skiff - AbeBooks

It's not a "browsing" book, strictly a field guide with a very deep level of information. They describe what's visible in each object with various apertures (typically 6 to 12 inch), and there are a few finder charts for certain areas (e.g. Virgo Cluster, Coma Cluster, Stephan's Quintet).

My field atlas is Uranometria, it cost me nearly £100 to get it shipped from US but again I've found it worth it.

An alternative is the free TriAtlas at JR's website.

Another book I've used a lot in the field is this:

Sky Atlas 2000.0 Companion, 2nd Edition: Descriptions and Data for All 2,700 Star Clusters, Nebulae, and Galaxies Shown in Sky Atlas 2000.0, 2nd Editi: Amazon.co.uk: Robert A. Strong, Roger W. Sinnott: Books

I find it less useful as a guide on what I might expect to see (the data seems to come from NGC descriptions rather than an actual survey, which is what Luginbuhl and Skiff did), but it does include the object's distance (which L+S don't), and that's a nice touch. Also it's arranged alpha-numerically rathern than by constellation (which is what L+S do). Either approach has its pros and cons.

For a long time, the SkyAtlas Companion served as my "tick list" - I'd mark observation dates in the book (the layout allows plenty of room for this), then I'd know where to look in my notes for my own description.

Since moving up to the 12-inch, I find myself viewing lots of objects not plotted on SkyAtlas, so I now use L+S as my "tick list". I do sometimes see things they don't list (and give myself a pat on the back when I do!), in which case I just pencil them in, though as a further "master list" I use the NGC itself:

NGC 2000.0: The Complete New General Catalogue and Index Catalogues of Nebulae and Star Clusters by John Louis Emil Dreyer: Amazon.co.uk: Roger W. Sinnott: Books

This is a surprisingly small book (object descriptions are in the shorthand devised by Herschel). Once you start marking in observations it makes you realise how far you've got to go!

One more book I'd mention, I like it for browsing but it could be used as a field guide:

Deep-sky Observing: The Astronomical Tourist Patrick Moore's Practical Astronomy Series: Amazon.co.uk: Steve R. Coe: Books

While not aiming to be comprehensive like the others, this has a lot of useful info for the intermediate observer (rather than complete beginner) with descriptions using apertures of typically 6-13 inches but sometimes 36 inches. It's written in a very nice style and it's a book I keep coming back to.

[Doc]

Thankyou Acey that must hasve taken sometime to write and I really appreciate it. I've looked at Uranometia 2000 and it looks pretty good. Goes pretty deep and looks perfect for what I need.

I think it will be:

Burnham's handbooks 1,2, and 3

Luginbuhl and Skiff's Observing Handbook

Uranometia northern Hemisphere.

[Mark at Beaufort]

Mick

I bought the Uranometria northern and it goes to -6 Dec and is an excellent star atlas especially used in conjunction with S&T Pocket Star Atlas. However, during the summer I went hunting for my last few Messier objects in Sagittarius and unfortunately the Uranometria did not go far enough South so I had to buy the Southern atlas which goes from +6 Dec south.

I looked everywhere for the best price and in the end found SCS Astro was the best deal.

Hope this helps.

In the meanwhile well done reaching the 5000 mark - I always enjoy reading your observing log.

Mark

[Doc]

Mick

I bought the Uranometria northern and it goes to -6 Dec and is an excellent star atlas especially used in conjunction with S&T Pocket Star Atlas. However, during the summer I went hunting for my last few Messier objects in Sagittarius and unfortunately the Uranometria did not go far enough South so I had to buy the Southern atlas which goes from +6 Dec south.

I looked everywhere for the best price and in the end found SCS Astro was the best deal.

Hope this helps.

In the meanwhile well done reaching the 5000 mark - I always enjoy reading your observing log.

Mark

Thanks for your kind words, I'll go and check SCSAstro out.

[Guest]

Just my two penny worth on Burnhams. It is one of these books regarded as a classic and you cannot critize it in the US without being flamed. However it is very dated. Most if not all the technical information is dated and can be ignored. The images are fine when they were taken (about 1970) but again look very dated. Most people will go on about the poetry and literary references and that is still quite good. However as has been mentioned the NSOG and Skiff book are better purchases for more modern information. I do have Burhams and cannot remember when I last opended them.

Owen

[Talitha]

The Millennium Star Atlas is £585 on Amazon.I think I just might forget this one

Why so much, i wonder? My hardcover set was $250 in late 2001. From what i understand the hardcover edition is no longer available, but they've recently offered a less expensive soft cover set (IIRC $100 less than my set).

The Luginbuhl-Skiff Handbook is a wonderful resource, but be aware that the observations were made from sites in/near Flagstaff Arizona which have very transparent skies.

One site was atop the 5 floor Chemistry building on the NAU campus where "the naked-eye limit was about 6.2" despite the sky being "fully illuminated by Flagstaff". We should be so lucky, lol.

Other sites were the "dark skies" of the Anderson Mesa of Lowell Observatory, the USNO Flagstaff Station, and an "undeveloped" site 40 km north of Flagstaff. L&S state that the limiting visual magnitude at these sites was about 7.0.

Hardly your 'average' viewing conditions, but still in all, i like the publication especially the constellation-by-constellation approach.

The only thing i don't like about it, is that the objects are listed by their ngc designation. So if you're looking for M51, you'll need to know that it's ngc5194.

The Millenium Atlas in three volumes is a fantastic piece of work. My copy unfortunately never gets out of its slipcase in the study! I'd never consider using it at the scope."

Why not, Merlin66? If it's the size and weight, all you need to do is get a sturdy music stand to place it on. If you're worried about the dew soaking the pages, don't be. Yes, the pages get damp/wet/soaked and yes, the volume swells up from it but when the paper dries there's no permanenet harm done. I suppose a piece of plexiglass placed over the book would keep the pages dry, though.

[Mark at Beaufort]

Thanks Carol

"If it's the size and weight, all you need to do is get a sturdy music stand to place it on"

I never thought of a music stand what a great idea. Carol I think you have just improved my comfort zone doing visual astronomy and cross reference star charts.

Mark

[Merlin66]

Talitha,

If I need to get down to >11mag at the telescope, its usually beacuse I'm looking for faint star to take a spectrum....

It's much easier to use CdC or TheSky on the laptop ( It's there anyway to run the scope/ AstroArt/ spectroscope) than it would be to use Millenium.....

[Aldebaran5]

I know nothing will compare to Burnham's work but for everyday viewing I bought the 'Field Guide to the Deep Sky Objects' written by Mike Inglis. This is a reference book set out in monthly configurations by item.

So it starts with some ordinary stars then red stars, double stars and goes all the way through the sky upto Quasars. It is good for reference as it give coordinates and brief details of the item. it is only about £16 pounds as well.

Keith.

[acey]

Thankyou Acey that must hasve taken sometime to write and I really appreciate it. I've looked at Uranometia 2000 and it looks pretty good. Goes pretty deep and looks perfect for what I need.

I think it will be:

Burnham's handbooks 1,2, and 3

Luginbuhl and Skiff's Observing Handbook

Uranometia northern Hemisphere.

I type fast!

You won't be disappointed with those books, but as Mark has said, you need both volumes of Uranometria. There's also a third volume which has all the data on the objects, but I don't have that and have never felt the need, given that I have the NGC.

I got mine direct from Willmann Bell:

Willmann-Bell | Celestial Atlases and Catalogs

Postage is a lot but there's no custom duty on books. Maybe SCS Astro works out cheaper, I'd suggest you do the exchange rate calculation and see who's best. Postage from US takes a while, of course so a UK supplier would certainly be quicker.

I'd also agree with what Carol says about the darkness of L+S's skies - there's also their visual acuity to take into account. They see details that I can't. But at least I know what to look for.

Andrew

[Talitha]

Mark, here's my music stand... it was about $50 when i got it three or four years ago, and it very easily handles the weight and size of the MSA. Sorry, i'm not too sure exactly how much each volume weighs, but they're not light. The height of the stand is adjustable, and so is the tilt of the holder.

[Doc]

Mark, here's my music stand... it was about $50 when i got it three or four years ago, and it very easily handles the weight and size of the MSA. Sorry, i'm not too sure exactly how much each volume weighs, but they're not light. The height of the stand is adjustable, and so is the tilt of the holder.

Amazing idea Carol. Another item to add to my list, at this rate I'll need a Van to take all my gear to a dark site

[AstroNinja]

I've not read the entire thread, so apologies if repeating information, but if you want to obtain Uranometria in the UK, I bought mine from Opticstar in Manchester. Excellent firm, ordered mine at around 4.00pm and got it by post the next day.

Jon

[Mark at Beaufort]

Thanks Carol I can appreciate the value of having the star atlas so close to the scope. Currently I leave my atlas on a bench seat which is about 10 feet from the scope. The music stand will solve this problem.

On the subject of Opticstar in Sale, Nr Manchester I also bought my northern edition of Uranometria from them. Nicely set out shop with very helpful staff. Of course it helps that my eldest son and his family live 400 metres from the shop so am able to visit quite often. However, they don't stock the southern version although I expect that would order if required.

Mark

[acey]

I took up Carol's music stand tip a while back and have never looked back. I got an Adam Hall heavy duty music stand for about £25 and it's perfect for Uranometria. Also nice that it's steel and therefore magnetic - handy for attaching things like red lights etc.

One of the best bits of astro equipment I've ever bought!

[Talitha]

Also nice that it's steel and therefore magnetic - handy for attaching things like red lights etc.

Well i'll be doggoned!! (That's American for "I'm totally gobsmacked":p)

I never realized my stand is magnetic.. thanks for the tip!

[peeceeTal2M]

Lidl's are selling music stands £9.99p as of Nov 2nd, not sure how much weight they would take though, they're not as substantial as the one Carol has.

[acey]

There are music stands and there are music stands - we have lots of them in our house, mostly for music, and most of them are pretty flimsy.

If you want to support Uranometria or MSA in a windy field then you need the heaviest duty stand you can get!

Also check the size: I made sure I got one with a top that's larger than Uranometria opened up - also big enough to accommodate a full sheet of SkyAtlas with no overhang.

[Talitha]

Mine's not larger than an opened MSA, but the volume fits well (as do the Sky Atlas 2000 charts). Very steady too, thanks to the adjustable spread of the stand's feet.

[AstroNinja]

Never thought I'd be buying a music stand for my astronomy .. but what an excellent idea just need to add a red light ....

[Mark at Beaufort]

Carol I think you have started something! Bytheway the music stand looks perfect.

Mark