ZWO vs Altair ; What’s the Difference?

[WolfieGlos]

I’ve spent a portion of the year trying to decide what camera upgrade route to go down ; a ZWO 2600MC vs ZWO 533MM. Basically I’ve been torn between a desire for a larger FOV in OSC vs going mono in a smaller FOV. This is because they come in at a similar price by the time I add in LRGB filters and a wheel (I’m ignoring NB for now) for the 533mm.

So having finally decided to stick with OSC and go with the 2600MC, I’ve been somewhat guilty of brand loyalty by not looking elsewhere. Although I have heard of them, I’ve never really taken any notice of Altair Astro, that is until now.

Their 26C uses the same sensor as the ZWO 2600MC but comes in a whopping £400 cheaper! Now I tend to go by the old adage of “if it’s too good to be true, it usually is”, but I cannot see any real difference between the specs here, so I’m wondering what gives?

Just to throw another spanner into the works, their 26M is the equivalent of the ZWO 2600mm adopting the same sensor again, but it is priced at exactly the same price as the ZWO 2600MC - that’s £450 cheaper than it’s ZWO equivalent in mono. A tempting option, combining the best of both worlds of mono and FOV.

The camera would be connected to my Starfield 102 with a 0.8 reducer (maybe flattener in time) and I do not use an Air, I use NiNa and a laptop, so there’s no issue of being stuck in the ZWO ecosystem.

So what gives? How can Altair be so much cheaper, and are ZWO pricing based on brandname? I’d be interested in hearing from any Altair users, and how they perform.

[Elp]

Everyone generally knows there seems to be a ZWO premium but don't discredit worldwide distribution agreements or route to sale. Any additional company involved in the supply chain from original manufacturer (even a camera manufacturers own supply chain), to shipping company to reseller all add their "cut/markups" onto products/services, (or defer some based on guaranteed volume business), this is how businesses grow and makes it worth while for all involved, so unless differing brands all have the same route of manufacturing through to distribution it's hard to compare like for like if you were to do a cost breakdown. Maybe you could if you compare the prices supplied direct from the brand to your door but again you have no idea of the brand's own cost breakdown to bring the item to market so again you're in the dark. From the perspective of the consumer/end user, we just stand eye wide open and look at the price difference at retail which isn't telling the whole story.

In terms of differences in performance, I doubt theres much of any of the same sensor and cooling type of camera between the likes of zwo, altair, qhy, Touptec, player one, explore scientific etc etc, in fact you'll often find the sensors are all made by the same one or two other companies, not the brands themselves.

Your post processing skills will have far more of a bearing to the end result rather than brand of camera. What will matter is reliability and after sales service and how they deal with warranty claims, even out of warranty claims and how quickly.

Edited Sunday at 23:51 by Elp

[licho52]

The difference is ZWO brand and reputation together with AsiAir compability (big).  It's much easier to sell a used ZWO camera, that's for sure.

 

Also the red color means it collects signal faster.

Edited Tuesday at 11:56 by licho52

[CraigT82]

Had I not just gone down the ASIair route I would go with the Altair cameras.  The price difference is too big to just ignore! I have owned several cameras of both brands and have had no quibbles with either. 

Altair is a UK firm with social media presence (especially on Facebook) and getting things sorted if there is issues should be not problem at all. 

[PhilB61]

I have the Altair 26C and can't fault it, it does everything I want, produces great images and has worked faultlessly with NINA, PHD2, Sharpcap, Ascom etc. As far as I can tell it has all the functionality that the ZWO version has other than compatibility with the ASI Air. 

The only real benefit I can think of in favour of the ZWO version is that it has a bigger user base, who may be able to provide help and support if required. I have had zero issues with my camera and I have not heard of anyone reporting issues with the Altair cameras such as oil on the sensor or fan vibration problems which seemed to affect some of the ZWO IMX571 cameras.

I do like and use ZWO stuff too, including a guide camera, EAF and filter drawer.

[mackiedlm]

I have a ZWO 2600mc and it is excellent, a fantastic camera and easy to use with any and all software I need. In preparing to get a IMX 571 (ZWO 2600m) MONO camera I spent along time researching the different options and asking around for thoughts and experience.

I eventually went with the Altair 26m and got it a couple of months back. My assessment of the camera through testing and my first few images is that it is equally excellent to my ZWO2600mc. The build quality is first class, connectivity is the same, cooling is slightly faster than on the 2600mc. Overall I am totally satisfied with the Altair mono version and would see no reason why the Altair colour version would be any different.

The price difference is significant. One point of note is that the 26m has a heated window which, where I live is essential. Not all of the Touptek clones (e.g. the Omegon version) have that so be careful.

I hope thats helpful to you.

[WolfieGlos]

21 hours ago, Elp said:

Maybe you could if you compare the prices supplied direct from the brand to your door but again you have no idea of the brand's own cost breakdown to bring the item to market so again you're in the dark. From the perspective of the consumer/end user, we just stand eye wide open and look at the price difference at retail which isn't telling the whole story

Granted, but even so, at the difference in price I’m surprised that ZWO have the apparent market share that they have. Given that all of these brands are likely to be made in China, I can understand slight variations in cost due to supply chains, wages, retailer costs, etc, but this kind of difference really caught me by surprise. 
 

21 hours ago, Elp said:

in fact you'll often find the sensors are all made by the same one or two other companies, not the brands themselves

Yeah, that’s also what caught me by surprise and hence the topic! So that’s good, as long as the camera electronics and compatibility are fine, there shouldn’t be any issue. I did pick up on a slight difference in width/ height of the sensor between the ZWO and Altair, but nothing major.

21 hours ago, Elp said:

Your post processing skills will have far more of a bearing to the end result rather than brand of camera. What will matter is reliability and after sales service and how they deal with warranty claims, even out of warranty claims and how quickly

Couldn’t agree more, post processing is where it will lie. I suppose even if there is some reliability issues, returning to a UK company instead of to China (like with ZWO) must be easier. 

[WolfieGlos]

15 hours ago, CraigT82 said:

Had I not just gone down the ASIair route I would go with the Altair cameras.  The price difference is too big to just ignore! I have owned several cameras of both brands and have had no quibbles with either. 

Altair is a UK firm with social media presence (especially on Facebook) and getting things sorted if there is issues should be not problem at all. 

Thanks Craig, that’s good to know. So the only reason for going away from Altair was the use of the Air? 

[tomato]

I needed a second IMX571 OSC  camera and as price was important, I went for the cheapest I could find at the time, namely the RisingCam version purchased direct from China via Aliexpress. It has performed equally as well as my QHY version, and an out of warranty repair (damage caused by my clumsiness, not a camera fault) was quick, efficient and fairly priced.

[WolfieGlos]

12 hours ago, PhilB61 said:

I have the Altair 26C and can't fault it, it does everything I want, produces great images and has worked faultlessly with NINA, PHD2, Sharpcap, Ascom etc. As far as I can tell it has all the functionality that the ZWO version has other than compatibility with the ASI Air. 

I do like and use ZWO stuff too, including a guide camera, EAF and filter drawer.

Thank you Phil, that’s good to hear especially on the compatibility front. I have no issue with ZWO stuff either; I also have the EAF, guidescope and camera, and filter drawer! 

[tomato]

And BTW, there is a keenly priced QHY 268m and filter wheel in the classifieds right now…

[WolfieGlos]

9 hours ago, mackiedlm said:

I have a ZWO 2600mc and it is excellent, a fantastic camera and easy to use with any and all software I need. In preparing to get a IMX 571 (ZWO 2600m) MONO camera I spent along time researching the different options and asking around for thoughts and experience.

I eventually went with the Altair 26m and got it a couple of months back. My assessment of the camera through testing and my first few images is that it is equally excellent to my ZWO2600mc. The build quality is first class, connectivity is the same, cooling is slightly faster than on the 2600mc. Overall I am totally satisfied with the Altair mono version and would see no reason why the Altair colour version would be any different.

The price difference is significant. One point of note is that the 26m has a heated window which, where I live is essential. Not all of the Touptek clones (e.g. the Omegon version) have that so be careful.

I hope thats helpful to you.

That’s really helpful, thanks. Your images have been superb, and that along with this thread is quite encouraging so far, so much so that I might follow in your footsteps and go mono with the 26m. It’s that or the 26c and save a good chunk of money all around.

I also notice that the Altairs come with a power lead, unlike ZWO. Is it worth using the supplied lead, or is a more robust option preferred? 

Although I’m on holiday at the moment, a quick pricing of the 26m with LRGB filters and a wheel is a little over budget so perhaps I’ll see if Black Friday throws up any good offers and decide from there.

[WolfieGlos]

15 minutes ago, tomato said:

I needed a second IMX571 OSC  camera and as price was important, I went for the cheapest I could find at the time, namely the RisingCam version purchased direct from China via Aliexpress. It has performed equally as well as my QHY version, and an out of warranty repair (damage caused by my clumsiness, not a camera fault) was quick, efficient and fairly priced.

How reliable is Aliexpress? I’ve heard bad things about it, but then again you’ll probably hear that about most things out there nowadays. How long was the turnaround time out of interest? Assuming it had to go back to China? 

6 minutes ago, tomato said:

And BTW, there is a keenly priced QHY 268m and filter wheel in the classifieds right now…

Thanks, just spotted that too! Lot of money to spend without seeing first (long drive for me) especially after that close call earlier this year. I’ll keep that in mind and do a bit of research when I get back, I don’t know much about QHY.

[Elp]

1 hour ago, WolfieGlos said:

I suppose even if there is some reliability issues, returning to a UK company instead of to China (like with ZWO) must be easier. 

You'd expect that to be true hence the point about other factors to consider. On a side note I recently had an issue with a used DJI item I bought, after my creating a report ticket, they sorted everything without my intervention at all, no costs, no delivery shindigs, done and resolved within a week or so, even called me up after to check I was happy (it had to be sent to Europe for checking/diagnostics). Now that's customer service, so likely I'll invest more in their products.

Edited Monday at 22:36 by Elp

[Priesters]

My current set up is an Altair 26C plus a Beelink Mini PC (£165) and GL mini router (£30).  Basically it’s equivalent to the ZWO 2600MC and ASI Air but with no eco system limitation so I can use NINA, SharpCap, FireCapture etc.  It operates really, really well but takes a bit of effort (and YouTube watching) to set up.  

Previously I’ve owned both a ZWO 294MC and Altair 183C Pro.  I had different technical problems with both cameras that required them to be sent back to the manufacturer. Both were resolved satisfactorily but took about the same time for the camera to be returned - 3 months!

In addition to my Altair 26C, I currently have 3 other ZWO cameras (one guider, one planetary and one all sky). I’m trying to convey that I am brand agnostic.  ZWO and Altair produce good quality products, and in my experience, have the same level of product support. I’ve not tried them but in a competitive market I’d hope other manufacturers are similar.  Overall, the key factors for me were:

1) the sensor in the camera

2) the cost

3) set up effort

4) long term flexibility of manufacturer choice.  

In my latest choice I found that 2) and 4) were more than sufficient to overcome 3) so I just went for the cheapest UK retailer with the sensor I wanted and got the Altair 26C.  No regrets at all so far.

HTH.

Andrew

Edited Monday at 23:27 by Priesters

[tomato]

The RC did have to go back to China for a replacement power PCB. Total cost including shipping there and back was £135 and the turnaround time was 40 days. I can’t fault RC’s after sales service.

QHY are a well established Chinese Astro camera supplier, they have been around quite a bit longer than ZWO. I have both a mono and OSC IMX 571 camera from them, as they were slightly cheaper than the ZWO offerings who also had a quality problem with oily sensors around the time I was looking to purchase. They can be purchased in the UK through Modern Astronomy, a first rate Astro retailer.

[PhilB61]

10 hours ago, WolfieGlos said:

Granted, but even so, at the difference in price I’m surprised that ZWO have the apparent market share that they have. Given that all of these brands are likely to be made in China, I can understand slight variations in cost due to supply chains, wages, retailer costs, etc, but this kind of difference really caught me by surprise. 
 

Yeah, that’s also what caught me by surprise and hence the topic! So that’s good, as long as the camera electronics and compatibility are fine, there shouldn’t be any issue. I did pick up on a slight difference in width/ height of the sensor between the ZWO and Altair, but nothing major.

Couldn’t agree more, post processing is where it will lie. I suppose even if there is some reliability issues, returning to a UK company instead of to China (like with ZWO) must be easier. 

The sensor used in all these IMX571 based cameras is solely manufactured by Sony corporation so any slight differences reported in sensor size will be due to interpretation by the marketing/ sales team. The main differences between the various brands is in the other electronic boards, operating firmware, software, features such as dew heaters, USB ports and the casing.

[mackiedlm]

10 hours ago, WolfieGlos said:

That’s really helpful, thanks. Your images have been superb, and that along with this thread is quite encouraging so far, so much so that I might follow in your footsteps and go mono with the 26m. It’s that or the 26c and save a good chunk of money all around.

I also notice that the Altairs come with a power lead, unlike ZWO. Is it worth using the supplied lead, or is a more robust option preferred? 

Although I’m on holiday at the moment, a quick pricing of the 26m with LRGB filters and a wheel is a little over budget so perhaps I’ll see if Black Friday throws up any good offers and decide from there.

The power supply that comes with the Altair is good quality and is entirely capable and appropriate.

With the ZWO's its up to you to find an appropriate power supply with the required output of 12v /3amp. For me that meant Amazon and with something like that on Amazon you pay your money and take a chance😅

If you are happy with the OSC then stick with it and get the 26c. I went with the mono 26m to run on a second rig, in parallel to the ASI2600mc. If i had only been intending to run with one rig I'd have stayed with the OSC. I know all the reasons why mono "will give better results", I have read all the arguments that mono is more efficient and actually is quicker than OSC. But in my location where clear nights are as rare as hens teeth, I was always of the opinion that OSC was more suited, in that if i got only a very few hours one night, then nothing for weeks, at least I'd have an OSC image. Whereas with mono I may be missing a channel (And changing filters every 3 images in a run just seems a waste of precious time). Having now had the chance to run both rigs together I have seen nothing to convince me that my original opinion was invalid. Mono imaging is fine, its not really any more difficult than OSC, either in capture or processing, but my eye is not well enough tuned to see a significant difference in final image quality between the two. Sure, if you run all sorts of mathematical diagnostics I'm sure you could confirm a difference. But my eyes dont see it. I'm happy to have the mono rig as it gives me another string to my bow, but if I was allowed only one, I'd stick with OSC.

But either way, you'd not go wrong with the Altair offering

 

[CraigT82]

10 hours ago, WolfieGlos said:

Thanks Craig, that’s good to know. So the only reason for going away from Altair was the use of the Air? 

Yes exactly, well to be honest I’ve always chosen Altair or QHY cameras (planetary) in the past as their shape makes more sense on a Newtonian with limited in focus, as the whole camera body is 1.25” I could slide the whole camera down the tube to reach focus. Couldn’t do that with ZWO units. 

I only bought an ASI485mc a couple of years ago as it was dirt cheap in the clearance section at FLO, with the 585 having just come out.  And now having the ASIair I’m locked in to ZWO but I don’t mind, it captured 6 hours on Iris neb last night without any hiccups whilst I was sat in front of the TV so I’m happy! 

[Stuart1971]

On 21/10/2024 at 00:05, WolfieGlos said:

I’ve spent a portion of the year trying to decide what camera upgrade route to go down ; a ZWO 2600MC vs ZWO 533MM. Basically I’ve been torn between a desire for a larger FOV in OSC vs going mono in a smaller FOV. This is because they come in at a similar price by the time I add in LRGB filters and a wheel (I’m ignoring NB for now) for the 533mm.

So having finally decided to stick with OSC and go with the 2600MC, I’ve been somewhat guilty of brand loyalty by not looking elsewhere. Although I have heard of them, I’ve never really taken any notice of Altair Astro, that is until now.

Their 26C uses the same sensor as the ZWO 2600MC but comes in a whopping £400 cheaper! Now I tend to go by the old adage of “if it’s too good to be true, it usually is”, but I cannot see any real difference between the specs here, so I’m wondering what gives?

Just to throw another spanner into the works, their 26M is the equivalent of the ZWO 2600mm adopting the same sensor again, but it is priced at exactly the same price as the ZWO 2600MC - that’s £450 cheaper than it’s ZWO equivalent in mono. A tempting option, combining the best of both worlds of mono and FOV.

The camera would be connected to my Starfield 102 with a 0.8 reducer (maybe flattener in time) and I do not use an Air, I use NiNa and a laptop, so there’s no issue of being stuck in the ZWO ecosystem.

So what gives? How can Altair be so much cheaper, and are ZWO pricing based on brandname? I’d be interested in hearing from any Altair users, and how they perform.

Altair Astro, Omegon, Explorer scientific, and a few others are all made by Touptek, and are exactly the same inside, some company’s like AA has there own individual cases designed so that they look a bit different, but they are essentially the same cameras. 

ZWO, and QHY design and manufacture there own cameras, so they are apart from the sensor, completely different, also Player One are different and they are owned by one of the two people who founded ZWO, and a couple of years ago they had a fall out and one guy left and started Player One

I personally use all QHY kit, and find it excellent, but if you ask enough people you will get bad stories about most brands at one time or another, it’s just human nature to tell you the bad points..

So it’s entirely up to you really, either go down the more expensive ZWO, Player One or QHY, or the cheaper Touptek brand, I have a Touptek 585 and it’s very nice, and TBH if I was to get another IMX571 based camera, it would be Touptek now they are availabe to buy in the U.K. from another company that Altair Astro own, but sell just the Touptek brand.

[WolfieGlos]

Thanks all for the very insightful input, as we come to expect from SGL 👍

22 hours ago, Priesters said:

My current set up is an Altair 26C plus a Beelink Mini PC (£165) and GL mini router (£30).

That’s my intention, although I have got the Mele 4C (which I’ve had since July!) which I have yet to get up and running with my rig. With the longer nights now, it’s more doable without losing too much clear sky time I feel.

13 hours ago, mackiedlm said:

The power supply that comes with the Altair is good quality and is entirely capable and appropriate.

With the ZWO's its up to you to find an appropriate power supply with the required output of 12v /3amp. For me that meant Amazon and with something like that on Amazon you pay your money and take a chance😅

If you are happy with the OSC then stick with it and get the 26c.

Yes, that really irks me with ZWO ; give us your money for an expensive camera, but we won’t give you a power supply lead to use it! That’s good to hear the Altair is suitable, thanks.

Having slept on it, I am going to stick with OSC. I don’t need to spend the money to go Mono, and the 26C gives me a massive saving - and there are some Askar filters that’ll collect SII if I want to go that route. Given I already have a filter drawer too, it just makes sense. 

Essentially I had been considering LRGB for galaxy season but OSC seems to work perfectly fine for me for all scenarios. And like you say, if you don’t get to collect data from a filter due to clouds, you have no image. It’s also more suitable for my personal life with a 5month old baby, so at least I don’t have to learn mono pre and post processing, which, along with cost, was a major factor in deciding OSC in the first place. And I’ve come to the same conclusion again.

Thanks all.

[tomato]

Astro imaging and a 5 month old baby, I don’t know how you manage that. I left imaging alone until my kids were all grown up.

[WolfieGlos]

11 hours ago, tomato said:

Astro imaging and a 5 month old baby, I don’t know how you manage that. I left imaging alone until my kids were all grown up.

It's not easy, believe me. I posted this on SGL a few months back, and her sleep pattern has completely changed making this doable. Luckily I work at home several days a week, have a very supportive wife (of the hobby) and the baby, well, she goes to sleep now from anywhere between 9-10pm, and stays asleep all the way through until 7am, without waking, she's been like this for about 2 months now. She doesn't barely sleep during the day though. Speaking to other parents, we seem to have a bit of a rarity on our hands like this !!

So capturing is the easy bit provided the weather plays ball, I've got the laptop running next to me whilst feeding her - one hand on the mouse, and one on the bottle 😄 Image processing is a whole other ball game, finding the time for that is a lot harder, especially to get everything out of an image. Usually I do that from the late hours, after all washing, dishes, work overtime, etc, and usually across multiple nights. I can squeeze it in currently, how long that lasts is another question. Luckily I've been putting aside money each month all year, so the saving of going away from ZWO to Altair is even more worthwhile.

[CraigT82]

3 minutes ago, WolfieGlos said:

It's not easy, believe me. I posted this on SGL a few months back, and her sleep pattern has completely changed making this doable. Luckily I work at home several days a week, have a very supportive wife (of the hobby) and the baby, well, she goes to sleep now from anywhere between 9-10pm, and stays asleep all the way through until 7am, without waking, she's been like this for about 2 months now. She doesn't barely sleep during the day though. Speaking to other parents, we seem to have a bit of a rarity on our hands like this !!

So capturing is the easy bit provided the weather plays ball, I've got the laptop running next to me whilst feeding her - one hand on the mouse, and one on the bottle 😄 Image processing is a whole other ball game, finding the time for that is a lot harder, especially to get everything out of an image. Usually I do that from the late hours, after all washing, dishes, work overtime, etc, and usually across multiple nights. I can squeeze it in currently, how long that lasts is another question. Luckily I've been putting aside money each month all year, so the saving of going away from ZWO to Altair is even more worthwhile.

This all sounds very familiar! I’ve got good memories of being out in the late evening sun imaging Venus during the first lockdown with the baby monitor sat beside my laptop on my little table next to the scope (and a G&T too!).
 

My boys are 5 and 2.5 now and they still take up the vast majority of my time outside of work… that’s why kit like the ASIair, EAF etc which allows unattended imaging is really worth its right in gold for me. 10 mins outside to set up and PA after tea then I’m back in to do bath and bedtimes! 
 

I also find that making time to get the processing done is the hardest bit. Currently doing it after bedtimes but also try to grab a few minutes here and here during the day between Teams calls and at lunch! 

[WolfieGlos]

1 hour ago, CraigT82 said:

This all sounds very familiar! I’ve got good memories of being out in the late evening sun imaging Venus during the first lockdown with the baby monitor sat beside my laptop on my little table next to the scope (and a G&T too!).
 

My boys are 5 and 2.5 now and they still take up the vast majority of my time outside of work… that’s why kit like the ASIair, EAF etc which allows unattended imaging is really worth its right in gold for me. 10 mins outside to set up and PA after tea then I’m back in to do bath and bedtimes! 
 

I also find that making time to get the processing done is the hardest bit. Currently doing it after bedtimes but also try to grab a few minutes here and here during the day between Teams calls and at lunch! 

10 minutes?! Damn, that's quick Craig! I'm roughly 10 minutes, and then 10-15 to set up the imaging run.

Great to hear you're still able to image with a young family, that gives me some more hope for the future. Absolutely agree about the kit and unattended imaging, it's vital really.

Shhh, I won't tell your boss if you won't tell mine....I have done the same at times during the day 😄 In fact, I often stack in the background (or at lunch) and process later on. Workload depending of course. I've just managed a process of the Comet from last night, now it's time for bottles and kitchen sorting out at 11pm...needs must!