Lodestar Pro binning question/problem

[Skipper Billy]

I have always binned my Lodestar Pro in 2x2 - its has always worked well.

This afternoon I sat down and read the up to date instructions from the creator of PHD2 and the old advice of binning 2x2 and slightly out of focus stars being preferable has been superceded by a new advisory that having small, tight, percetly focussed stars is preferable.

So I changed the binning to 1x1 as the Lodestar pixels are huge and I was expecting smaller, tighter stars.

Instead I got double and even triple stars - see attached image.

I tried all available drivers - ASCOM and non ASCOM and got the same results.

It was very poor seeing but when I switched back to 2x2 the stars were single round points - but bigger as expected.

I vaguely remember reading some where that a specific driver is required or the firmware of the camera updating to avoid a similar problem.

Any suggestions ?? I would really like to try 1x1.

 

 

[Oddsocks]

That looks like the “Venetian Blind” effect that is/was a feature of the sensor used in the Lodestar.

The Lodestar uses (I think) an interlaced readout CCD, designed for video cameras, each image frame is read twice, the even numbered rows sequentially first and the odd numbered rows sequentially after.

The acquisition software has to be able to reassemble the two frames in the right order otherwise it splits the frame vertically as though looking through a Venetian blind, one row has image data that captures a star but the next row down is blank and that makes it appear as though you have multiple stars closely split.

I’m afraid I have no experience of using PHD for guiding with a Lodestar but when using MaxIm DL there was a bunch of configuration options in the camera setup amongst which were “Swap odd and even rows” and “Remove Venetian Blind effect”, which used together assembles the image odd/even rows in the correct order and corrects for any brightness variation between the two rows due to the timing difference when reading all the even rows first and then going back to read the odd rows in a camera that has no shutter and continues to collect photons in the odd rows even while the even rows are being read out.

In PHD look for a camera configuration setting that might be called “de-interlace”, or “progressive readout” or similar, as that will be needed when reading out an interlaced CCD camera.

Sorry I couldn’t give you a PHD specific solution.

William.

Edited March 29 by Oddsocks

[Anne S]

I've got the previous model to your Lodestar Pro, only bought it in December. I'm using it unbinned with no issues. I think I'm using the Ascom driver in Phd2. Can't check as I've had to reinstall everything on the mini pc concerned! Have you installed all the latest drivers?

Years ago I used a MX716 which uses the same ccd, no issues with that either. I was using Maxim dl5 at the time and I don't recall changing anything in the driver. Have you asked Terry Platt at SX?

[michael8554]

High Skip

I have a LodeStar X2 and have never seen the interlace problem associated with this camera's sensor.

I use the "Starlight Xpress SXV" driver, not the "Starlight Xpress LodeStar (ASCOM), with an OAG, and no Binning.

Michael

 

 

[Stuart1971]

11 hours ago, Skipper Billy said:

I have always binned my Lodestar Pro in 2x2 - its has always worked well.

This afternoon I sat down and read the up to date instructions from the creator of PHD2 and the old advice of binning 2x2 and slightly out of focus stars being preferable has been superceded by a new advisory that having small, tight, percetly focussed stars is preferable.

So I changed the binning to 1x1 as the Lodestar pixels are huge and I was expecting smaller, tighter stars.

Instead I got double and even triple stars - see attached image.

I tried all available drivers - ASCOM and non ASCOM and got the same results.

It was very poor seeing but when I switched back to 2x2 the stars were single round points - but bigger as expected.

I vaguely remember reading some where that a specific driver is required or the firmware of the camera updating to avoid a similar problem.

Any suggestions ?? I would really like to try 1x1.

 

 

I had this exact same issue, and contacted Terry at SX, who said it was in need of a firmware and software update in the camera, so it went back to him to be done, and when it came back all was good, I think he can send you the files needed and you can do it yourself if you wish too, but I just sent it to him as I did not want to take the risk…but it is normal if the camera had old firmware in it…👍🏻

Edited March 29 by Stuart1971

[Oddsocks]

Hi David.

I dug out my old observatory computer and looked at the SX Lodestar settings and post the screenshots below, I no longer use the Lodestar for guiding since upgrading the mount.

The first screen grab is the one that *might* help assuming you're running the latest SX ASCOM driver, and should be applicable for your setup with PHD. It is reachable from the "Advanced" button of the ASCOM driver setup.

The second screen grab is not going to help with PHD but I'll post that here anyway for users of MaxIm DL and the specific SX Universal camera plug-in for MaxIm.

HTH

William.

SX Lodestar interlace settings using ASCOM driver.

 

SX Lodestar settings for MaxIm DL specific plug-in.

[Skipper Billy]

4 hours ago, Oddsocks said:

That looks like the “Venetian Blind” effect that is/was a feature of the sensor used in the Lodestar.

The Lodestar uses (I think) an interlaced readout CCD, designed for video cameras, each image frame is read twice, the even numbered rows sequentially first and the odd numbered rows sequentially after.

The acquisition software has to be able to reassemble the two frames in the right order otherwise it splits the frame vertically as though looking through a Venetian blind, one row has image data that captures a star but the next row down is blank and that makes it appear as though you have multiple stars closely split.

I’m afraid I have no experience of using PHD for guiding with a Lodestar but when using MaxIm DL there was a bunch of configuration options in the camera setup amongst which were “Swap odd and even rows” and “Remove Venetian Blind effect”, which used together assembles the image odd/even rows in the correct order and corrects for any brightness variation between the two rows due to the timing difference when reading all the even rows first and then going back to read the odd rows in a camera that has no shutter and continues to collect photons in the odd rows even while the even rows are being read out.

In PHD look for a camera configuration setting that might be called “de-interlace”, or “progressive readout” or similar, as that will be needed when reading out an interlaced CCD camera.

Sorry I couldn’t give you a PHD specific solution.

Thanks William that's a great explanation and is exactly what I am seeing.

I will have another ferret about in the settings and see what I can find.

Thanks again.

[Skipper Billy]

3 hours ago, Anne S said:

I've got the previous model to your Lodestar Pro, only bought it in December. I'm using it unbinned with no issues. I think I'm using the Ascom driver in Phd2. Can't check as I've had to reinstall everything on the mini pc concerned! Have you installed all the latest drivers?

Years ago I used a MX716 which uses the same ccd, no issues with that either. I was using Maxim dl5 at the time and I don't recall changing anything in the driver. Have you asked Terry Platt at SX?

Thanks Anne.

I have pinged Terry at SX an email but I guess they will be taking a well earned break over Easter.

Thanks again.

[Skipper Billy]

2 hours ago, Stuart1971 said:

I had this exact same issue, and contacted Terry at SX, who said it was in need of a firmware and software update in the camera, so it went back to him to be done, and when it came back all was good, I think he can send you the files needed and you can do it yourself if you wish too, but I just sent it to him as I did not want to take the risk…but it is normal if the camera had old firmware in it…👍🏻

Thanks Stuart

That confirms what I vaguely remember reading somewhere.

I have pinged SX a message and will see what they suggest.

Thanks again.

[Skipper Billy]

1 hour ago, Oddsocks said:

Hi David.

I dug out my old observatory computer and looked at the SX Lodestar settings and post the screenshots below, I no longer use the Lodestar for guiding since upgrading the mount.

The first screen grab is the one that *might* help assuming you're running the latest SX ASCOM driver, and should be applicable for your setup with PHD. It is reachable from the "Advanced" button of the ASCOM driver setup.

Thanks William - that's exceptionally helpful and I appreciate you taking the time and trouble to do this.

I would never have found those settings by accident!

I will have a look at it when I get home from work.

All the best.

David

[Anne S]

Terry often replies during the evening. We had a problem with an Ultrastar earlier this year. He sent a firmware update which I applied. Very easy.

[Stuart1971]

1 hour ago, Skipper Billy said:

Thanks Stuart

That confirms what I vaguely remember reading somewhere.

I have pinged SX a message and will see what they suggest.

Thanks again.

One thing I will say is no amount of tweaking any settings will make a difference if the firmware is the old version, either in the driver or in PHD, trust me I tried everything….

[Skipper Billy]

54 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

One thing I will say is no amount of tweaking any settings will make a difference if the firmware is the old version, either in the driver or in PHD, trust me I tried everything….

Thanks Stuart

Will wait to hear back from SX.

[Skipper Billy]

I tried the helpfull suggestions about altering settings in the ASCOM driver but it made no difference when binned 1x1 (See attached)

The plot now thickens - I switched back to binning 2x2 and got odd shaped blocky stars!!! (See attached)

I emailed Terry at Starlight Express and despite it being Easter weekend he responded quickly and is preparing a firmware update for me.

Cant fault that for service!!

[Skipper Billy]

Quick update in case anyone else has the same issue and finds this thread.

Firmware update received and installed (on Easter Sunday - THANKS TERRY!)

Bingo - Bin 1x1 stars - no adjustments in the driver etc

Nice tight, small round stars and all good - quick guiding test in really poor seeing, shocking transparency and very windy - see below.

Thanks a million to everyoe that tried to help.

 

[kobu]

Hi, I just acquired recently a second hand original Lodestar and was having the same issue.

I then found the ASCOM driver GitHub, developed by Bret McKee, through the ASCOM portal - Camera & Video Drivers (ascom-standards.org)

It seems a new version of the ASCOM driver 6.3.1.23042 was published in Feb '23 while Starlight Express page is still referencing to an older version 6.2.1.18182.

Releases · brets-astro/sxascom-releases · GitHub

After installing the new ASCOM driver the issue was solved and stars are totally round using bin 1 without the need to update the camera firmware.

SE should update the driver on their web page.

Hope this helps, all credits to the developer!

 

[Skipper Billy]

10 hours ago, kobu said:

Hi, I just acquired recently a second hand original Lodestar and was having the same issue.

I then found the ASCOM driver GitHub, developed by Bret McKee, through the ASCOM portal - Camera & Video Drivers (ascom-standards.org)

It seems a new version of the ASCOM driver 6.3.1.23042 was published in Feb '23 while Starlight Express page is still referencing to an older version 6.2.1.18182.

Releases · brets-astro/sxascom-releases · GitHub

After installing the new ASCOM driver the issue was solved and stars are totally round using bin 1 without the need to update the camera firmware.

SE should update the driver on their web page.

Hope this helps, all credits to the developer!

Thanks for the heads up - too late for me but may well help someone having the same issue if they find this thread.

Slainte!

[michael8554]

Thanks kobu, I'll try that newer driver on my LodeStar X2, weather permitting :-<

Michael