Mars-- looks white through scope?

[Flame Nebula]

Hi, 

Has anyone ever experienced seeing Mars as a white disc? I've looked on Internet, and apparently, I'm not alone in this. So, I wanted to ask here, if anyone has had this phenomenon? 

Thanks 

Mark

[Stu]

37 minutes ago, Flame Nebula said:

Hi, 

Has anyone ever experienced seeing Mars as a white disc? I've looked on Internet, and apparently, I'm not alone in this. So, I wanted to ask here, if anyone has had this phenomenon? 

Thanks 

Mark

Do you mean the lack of colour, lack of markings or both? When were you observing it? Mars can be totally underwhelming to observe, or absolutely incredible when at opposition and at a good altitude. Sometimes it has global dust storms which blank out any detail even when it is close.

[dweller25]

@Flame Nebula

When did you observe Mars as a white disk ?

I have been observing Mars for a very long time and have never seen it as a white disk.

However poor seeing, thermal issues, collimation, Martian dust storms and how far Mars is from opposition can all contribute to a bright pale orange featureless disk.

Edited March 9 by dweller25

[Nik271]

Mars is small but very bright, it may appear colourless initially under low magnification becauseof this excessive brightness. I sometimes experience this with Jupiter using a large scope. If you allow more time for your eye to adapt you should start to see red hues. Otherwise something is wrong with the scope.

[Ratlet]

1 minute ago, Nik271 said:

Mars is small but very bright, it may appear colourless initially under low magnification becauseof this excessive brightness. I sometimes experience this with Jupiter using a large scope. If you allow more time for your eye to adapt you should start to see red hues. Otherwise something is wrong with the scope.

I suspect it's too bright as well.  Had this for the longest time in 2022 with all the planets when viewing through the 130pds.  Any and all contrast was gone and it was almost like someone was shining a light through a picture of the planets.

I found that higher power could help, however the eyepiece made a difference.  My BST 8mm is great for DSO but for some reason the image it produced for planets has terrible contrast and is 'over exposed'.  My 3-8mm svbony at 8mm produced a much better image.

I also found that using a cheap yellow and moon and sky glow filter helped, it gives a similar 'cut' to a baader contrast booster but with a yellow cast (it also costs about £10 for both filters.  Just get cheap ones).

You can also use a variable polarising filter which will dim the view.  If you're using a Barlow put one bit in the Barlow and the other on the eyepiece and you just need to rotate the eyepiece to dim the view.

[Flame Nebula]

38 minutes ago, Stu said:

Do you mean the lack of colour, lack of markings or both? When were you observing it? Mars can be totally underwhelming to observe, or absolutely incredible when at opposition and at a good altitude. Sometimes it has global dust storms which blank out any detail even when it is close.

It was a while ago, but I remember it was about 30° above horizon, above houses. Two scopes showed it white, to my great surprise. 

[dweller25]

10 minutes ago, Flame Nebula said:

It was a while ago, but I remember it was about 30° above horizon, above houses. Two scopes showed it white, to my great surprise. 

That could have been the 2020 opposition when Mars was quite low. I found little to see when viewing Mars that year.

 The 2022 opposition was much better as Mars was higher - but smaller.

[Elp]

It shouldn't be completely white, if you stare at it a while you'll see the hue come through. It has a red hue even when looking at it with your own eyes without a scope. I've had Jupiter look quite white but after looking at it for a minute or so without breaking contact from the eyepiece the banding and colours show up as your brain resolves detail from the seeing. You can use a Barlow to increase the focal length and f stop so it dims the light going into the eyepiece, or a variable polarising filter.

[IB20]

What magnification were you using?

[Flame Nebula]

37 minutes ago, IB20 said:

What magnification were you using?

Varied between 40 to 140, in both ed80 and 127mm mak

[IB20]

9 minutes ago, Flame Nebula said:

Varied between 40 to 140, in both ed80 and 127mm mak

At 120x in my 8” dob I recall how a bright cream it came across. This was at near opposition though. I could detect darker albedo features at this mag. If seeing allows, Mars can take fairly high mags, 200-240x and it was at these dimmer magnifications that its colouration came through better.

Again, it will depend on Mars’ location in relation to Earth, the further away it gets, the smaller and harder it will appear making detailed observations more difficult. Certainly with planetary viewing it can become a case of take every opportunity to capture improved conditions. Viewing planets when it’s not too dark, I.e. early evening or morning can definitely improve planetary colouration.

 

[John]

I've not seen Mars as a white disk as far as I'm aware. Even when a long way off and very tiny or when viewed with my ancient Tasco 60mm refractor, the disk has always had a pink / pale orange / pale rust tone. When it's far away making out any surface details, ie: the darker areas can be very challenging. Syrtis Major is the most obvious one but even that can be difficult to spot when the martian disk is very small.

Edited March 9 by John

[Flame Nebula]

15 minutes ago, IB20 said:

At 120x in my 8” dob I recall how a bright cream it came across. This was at near opposition though. I could detect darker albedo features at this mag. If seeing allows, Mars can take fairly high mags, 200-240x and it was at these dimmer magnifications that its colouration came through better.

Again, it will depend on Mars’ location in relation to Earth, the further away it gets, the smaller and harder it will appear making detailed observations more difficult. Certainly with planetary viewing it can become a case of take every opportunity to capture improved conditions. Viewing planets when it’s not too dark, I.e. early evening or morning can definitely improve planetary colouration.

 

I do wonder if higher mag would have helped, but I never pushed beyond 140 because neither of my scopes handles higher mags well. Interesting, my ed80 can give sharper views at slightly higher mags than my 127mm mak. But both did not look red. I'm told that I may have issues detecting pale pink, so I did wonder if that might be partially the cause. But the weird thing is, Mars looks obviously red to my naked eye! 

[bosun21]

3 hours ago, Flame Nebula said:

I do wonder if higher mag would have helped, but I never pushed beyond 140 because neither of my scopes handles higher mags well. Interesting, my ed80 can give sharper views at slightly higher mags than my 127mm mak. But both did not look red. I'm told that I may have issues detecting pale pink, so I did wonder if that might be partially the cause. But the weird thing is, Mars looks obviously red to my naked eye! 

I think you should check the collimation of your 127 Mak as i routinely observed at 200+ with the one I previously owned. The planets remained sharp.

Edited March 9 by bosun21
Typo

[RT65CB-SWL]

I have never seen a ‘white’ Mars either in my 50+ years of owning various ‘scopes.

I do find that when using a Baader Neodymium filter, it can appear as a pale pastel pink at times.