Tak FC 100DC vs. Skymax 127 + Firstlight on SV Bony 3-8mm Zoom

[SuburbanMak]

Another clear Friday combined with the arrival of my SGL-crowd recommended SV Bony 3-8mm zoom eyepiece had me itching to get out last night. 
With the full moon blazing away I had no particular DSO plans so took the opportunity to mount up the Skymax 127 Mak alongside the Tak FC 100 DC for a little side by side comparison. 

It struck me that in the year since buying my 4 inch Tak, I haven’t looked through the Mak at all, & I need to decide whether there’s enough difference in their function to warrant keeping the Mak or move this much loved ‘scope on to someone who will give it the use it deserves.
The arrival of the 3-8mm zoom also meant that I could compare the two scopes at a range of similar magnifications without too much eyepiece switching. 
My methodology was far from scientific so if you’re expecting a detailed benchmarking test I apologise in advance… 

The Mak had a slight disadvantage on the diagonal front as I had a Tak prism in the refractor vs a standard SW mirror in the Mak. I’d have switched to even the field but with the Tak in its current configuration I can’t reach focus with the mirror & as I say, this was a casual comparison. 

First up I popped a 24mm Baader Hyperion in the f12, 1500mm Mak alongside a 12.5mm Morpheus in the f7.4, 740mm Tak - giving 63x and 59x respectively, close enough for jazz….

First up Polaris, for North-Level GTiX alignment and a good first test. 

Both ‘scopes showed a nice split and revealed seeing to be quite good, although the Mak’s view a little scruffier as it was still finishing cooling. Both showed the pale white ghost of a secondary well, what was noticeable was that the colour differential was much more pronounced in the Tak, yellow white primary vs grey white secondary. 

 On then to Jupiter, via a first alignment star of Regulus rising in the East. 

Both scopes showed a cracking view at this 60x ish mag level. Crisp banding in the NEB & SEB with hints of texture and occasional glimpses of the temporal bands N & S.   

Time to rack up the magnification and get a first look through that SV Bony zoom in the Tak. I popped the Baader Mk IV zoom in the Mak and set the 2 EPs to 5mm & 10mm respectively- around 150x. 

Through the Tak-Bony combination the detail was superb with a couple of festoons and a notable elongated white spot just E of the equator. Excellent contrast and a pleasing field that took in all four Galilean moons, showing as tiny discs. 

View in the Mak-Baader combo was also good, with certainly more detail showing than at the lower magnification. I could make out the same features as in the Tak albeit slightly less well defined, I’m not sure with this view alone I would have noticed the white spot for example, although knowing it was there could discern it as a lighter feature. The Tak-Bony combination offered more contrast and sharper definition. 
 

I racked up the magnification with the SV Bony to 4mm (189x) and then 3mm (246x).  The view at 4mm was superb with I would say a slight softening at 3mm - no way of telling whether this was due to the eyepiece or the sky conditions, one of those rare nights of exceptional seeing required to really test this. Nevertheless the view at these higher magnifications was very good indeed and, for someone quite happy to look through Baader Classic Orthos with their 45 degree field, the 56 degrees on offer here felt positively expansive!  The image looked very crisp with light scatter well controlled and no apparent dimming even at the shortest focal length.  

Another plus point is that the SV-Bony zoom seemed to me to be genuinely parfocal as I stepped through the very positive click-stops for each MM of focal length. I’d never really thought about it until then but my Baader Zoom definitely requires a focusing tweak each time I change magnification. Not having to do so is a definite step up in Zoom user experience. 

All this coupled with what feels like robust build quality and a smaller form & weight factor add up to a package that I’d say is excellent value for money and gives me the magnification options I’ve been wanting to complement the Tak. Most importantly I am confident it will see a lot of use! 
 

The next item of comparison was M42, moonwashed and still rising, but as a very familiar view still a great test object. 

Both ‘scopes showed a fab view at the 150x mark. Both splitting the trap into a steady 4 stars and showing the encroaching nebulosity well.  In this case I noted that the Baader-Mak combination was picking up a distinct greenish tinge, which was great to see! Where the difference came out in the Tak was in the level of texture and contrast shown in the nebula - the sense of stars shining from within a 3D cloudscape. It drew me in and I looked for a long time, stepping up to 4mm (189x) and at this stage seeing glimpses of the ‘E’ star, which I couldn’t replicate in the Mak under last night’s conditions (although I have seen both the E & F stars with the Mak on good nights with a 6mm Baader Classic Ortho). 
 

I eventually tore myself away to test out on a couple of doubles, first up Sigma Orionis.  Sitting just below Alnitak, Orion’s easterly belt star, this is one of my favourite multiple stars. Both ‘scopes immediately showed a great view of the A/B, D & E components in a field with the nearby triangle of Struve 761.  I love this view, which always puts me in mind of Star Trek as it really does look like what I imagined a “star system” to be.  
In the Tak-Bony combination the faint ‘C’ component that completes the dogleg line was popping nicely as a pale white dot. Going back to the view in the Mak it was there intermittently but harder to spot. I think just that bit of extra contrast coupled with the refractor’s tighter star presentation making the difference. 
 

On to a nearby slightly tougher target, Alnitak itself.  Not all that well positioned as still fairly low and over the section of my view that has the most heat plume interference from nearby roofs. Views were a bit scruffy in both ‘scopes at 150x but in the Tak, the secondary stood out due to a marked colour difference, yellow vs white-blue.  Pushing the magnification further confirmed the split, albeit wobbly. In the Mak the seeing issue meant that I could only really identify that this was not single, not truly split despite the 20mm or so aperture advantage (more on that later). 
 

After a break for taxi duties, food and possibly some wine, I was back out at around 10:30.  
 
Looked at Iota Cancri - a lovely split in both scopes with the pale blue - orange combination visible in each but more prominent in the Tak. 
 
Then on to the last of the objects I had thought about testing, Tegmine, Zeta Cancri - at around 1” this is on the theoretical diffraction limit for the Mak. 
In the 100mm Tak with the SV Bony at 3mm (246x) I could achieve no more than a “snowman”.  For this one challenge I switched the prism diagonal and SV Bony into the Mak and achieved a clean split at 6mm (250x) under gently swimming seeing. Just goes to show that despite all that Flourite, you “cannae change the laws o’ physics” when it comes to aperture. 

By now, having reached some conclusions, I was tiring of the slight realignment of the ‘scopes required to centre each target for comparison, having not taken the time to fiddle with this at the start of the session. With the Mak on the RH limb of the AZGTIX it was also effectively upside down, rendering the addition of its finder impossible, so the comparisons had required a little bit of target hunting each time. 
 

I spent another happy hour looking at a few more doubles (Leo 54, Castor, Algieba) before dropping in the Morpheus 12.5mm into the Tak for a moonwashed star cluster tour taking in M44, M35 (which looked particularly lovely) M36,M37 & M38 - of which M36 was presenting best in the moonlight and local LP - finishing up with a sweep of the Alpha Persei cluster and watching the Pleiades drop below the roofline. 

Inside for a warm and a glass of red while I  pondered my conclusions.
 The Tak unsurprisingly pips the Mak at the post on the tightness of its star presentation, higher contrast and most notably last night, colour fidelity. It has the edge in “cutting through” the seeing somehow.  The Mak stands up very well indeed, delivering great views all round and scored that aperture win in resolving Tegmine - on balance however, I can’t see me selecting it over the 100mm Tak so it’s probably, reluctantly, time for it to go to someone who will regularly give it the starlight it deserves. 

The SV Bony 3-8mm Zoom is a hands down winner for me. It extends the range of magnification I have available in the mid-focal length Tak up to 246x - that’s as much as I’m going to need on all but the most exceptional of nights. I didn’t compare it directly with my Pentax XW 5mm, will do so at some point, but neither did I look through it and immediately think “this is not as good as the Pentax” (which is in addition a big thing to lug around ). Well made, crisp & contrasty, truly parfocal & amazing value. It’s over £300 cheaper than a TV Nagler 3-6mm zoom as well as having a wider focal range. Very happy punter! 

 

 

Edited January 27 by SuburbanMak

[Nik271]

Interesting shoot out! You will need a new avatar 🙂 

I consider my 5 inch Skymax to be roughly equal to my  4 inch refractor, losing at the wide views but  edging ahead of my refractor at planetary. However my refractor is a 500 quid Svbony, about as budget as you can get in the ED class. I'm pleased to see the Skymax is not totally trounced by the Tak.

I'm happy to keep both my scopes since they serve a different purpose, if I had a 4 inch Tak though probably I would have reached the same conclusion as you.

 

Nik

 

 

[Vash]

9 minutes ago, Nik271 said:

Interesting shoot out! You will need a new avatar 🙂 

Not to mention a name change to 'SuburbanTak' 

 

A nivea write up, thank you. 

Now I have to buy the svbony zoom though! 

 

[mikeDnight]

That's a great comparison between two wonderful scopes. Thanks for taking the time to write up your thoughts and present your observations in a way that shows you have great affection for both. The only downside from my stand point is that I now want a Svbony 3-8 zoom! 

[SuburbanMak]

56 minutes ago, Nik271 said:

I'm pleased to see the Skymax is not totally trounced by the Tak.

Thanks Nik - not at all trounced, you can see the difference as to be expected, but like so many things (thinking Hi Fi in particular) incremental improvement whilst appreciable is by no means proportionate to cost.  
 

What’s interesting to me is that bit extra in terms of contrast, star presentation, colour and seeing cut-through (for want of a better expression) add up to more sessions where you get drawn in and stay at the eyepiece for hours on nights when you might otherwise pack up. 

Edited January 27 by SuburbanMak

[SuburbanMak]

34 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

 The only downside from my stand point is that I now want a Svbony 3-8 zoom! 

I am no eyepiece expert by any means but to me it looks like one of those cracking value items that occasionally crop up.  (The last one I succumbed to being the APM clone 30mm UFF). 

Thanks also for your kind words - I am really fond of my Mak, it got me back into the hobby and has shown me some amazing things - but I am taking a leaf out of my better half’s ultra practical book in that if it’s not in regular use then it’s a missed opportunity for someone. 
 

 

[cajen2]

Thanks for the write up, SUM.

Your conclusions on the  Svbony zoom chime with mine: as good as a quality fixed f/l EP (I too use 5mm Pentax XW, plus a 4.5 and 6.5mm Morpheus) but only for sharpness and clarity. I do miss the much wider FOV that the Morphs in particular give me.

I was idly considering getting a 127 Mak (as you do 😉) but it sounds like it won't give me much more than my Starfield 102ED except perhaps in magnification headroom. So you've saved me £££, good man!

[JeremyS]

Nice comparison and write-up 👍🏻

[Captain Scarlet]

Very interesting read and as ever beautifully written. Just goes to show that there are a handful of beginner-priced scopes that really hold their own with the very best. Mak 127 such a bargain.

Magnus

[Epick Crom]

Fantastic shoot out between two great scopes SuburbanTak, umm I mean SuburbanMak😁

Sounds like you had a fun night 👍

[mikeDnight]

59 minutes ago, Captain Scarlet said:

 Just goes to show that there are a handful of beginner-priced scopes that really hold their own with the very best. Mak 127 such a bargain.

Magnus

Sometimes I wonder if the relatively low price and familiarity of these Maksutov's has played a part in our losing sight of their incredible ability. I like to think of them as affordable modern day Questars.

[Highburymark]

Though I’m now a confirmed refractor man, I started off with a superb Mak, and so retain a huge regard for them as planetary and double star scopes. I wonder if your impressions would have been closer if you’d used the same diagonal for both scopes throughout. That alone could have skewed the results towards the Tak - depending on the quality of the SW mirror? If it was the 2” dielectric though, it should be pretty good.

[josefk]

Nice write up @SuburbanMak - that’s a nice series of targets on such a bright moonlit night in any event, never mind the comparison exercise.

[Nik271]

14 hours ago, Highburymark said:

Though I’m now a confirmed refractor man, I started off with a superb Mak, and so retain a huge regard for them as planetary and double star scopes. I wonder if your impressions would have been closer if you’d used the same diagonal for both scopes throughout. That alone could have skewed the results towards the Tak - depending on the quality of the SW mirror? If it was the 2” dielectric though, it should be pretty good.

I definitely noticed improvement in contrast when I replaced my basic SW mirror diagonal that came with my Skymax with a dielectric. But even then there is a bit of light scatter around Jupiter. I think the mirror surfaces are not as smooth as in premium scopes, which is fair at this price point.

[mikeDnight]

30 minutes ago, Nik271 said:

I definitely noticed improvement in contrast when I replaced my basic SW mirror diagonal that came with my Skymax with a dielectric. But even then there is a bit of light scatter around Jupiter. I think the mirror surfaces are not as smooth as in premium scopes, which is fair at this price point.

It might be worth trying a Tak prism in your Maksutov to see it it eradicates any hint of scatter. They are probably the cheapest accessory that Tak offer, but produce great, scatter free images through my refractors. 

[SuburbanMak]

29 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

It might be worth trying a Tak prism in your Maksutov to see it it eradicates any hint of scatter. 

I’ve run a Tak prism in the SW Mak 127 for the last couple of years - it definitely tightened things up as regards light scatter. 

[Nicola Fletcher]

Thanks for that really interesting comparison. I often wonder if I made a mistake selling my 127 Mak when I got my 4” refractor, but I did feel that the Mak wouldn’t get enough use so I sold it on. Like you, I had some great times with that Mak but I think selling it was the right decision.