Jupiter Advice

[Ed in UK]

Wondered if I could ask for a little guidance please on observing Jupiter.

I've been reading loads of great reports on here of people watching GRS transits, reporting on what they see in the equatorial belts and moon shadows transits etc.  

I'm struggling to see anything like this, I can make out the belts buts seem to fall short on seeing detail. It would be nice to see a little more before Jupiter becomes too small again.

I'm not sure if this is just down to experience (lack of in my case), or is it a case it's probably beyond the limits of my kit (listed in my signature).

Greatest magnification I can achieve is x225, (8mm EP + 2x Barlow). Not too sure if greater magnification may be pushing my scope too far, or if magnification is my answer, but I also understood the Jupiter doesn't respond well to higher magnifications. 

It's been a little challenging for us all of recent with the poor weather so getting time at the eye piece hasn't come easy, happy to keep plugging away though.

Not about to give up just curious as to whether I'm trying to reach for something beyond my limits.

Any guidance gratefully received.

TIA.

Ed

[dweller25]

Your scope and BST eyepieces are fine 👍 it might be best to avoid the supplied 10mm

Your scope must be well cooled and collimated for best results.

X150 to x180 is about perfect for Jupiter

Best time to observe is when it is due south at it’s highest

Try to avoid observing over warm rooftops

Edited December 21, 2023 by dweller25

[PeterC65]

My advice is to keep trying. The more you observe, the more you tend to see, I don't know why, but it is definitely a thing. The conditions affect planetary observing, different conditions on different nights and variations on a single night. Try observing on different nights when the seeing will be different, and spend an hour just observing Jupiter, maybe coming back to it a few times. It still surprises me how the detail can suddenly jump out at you for several seconds.

 

[Ed in UK]

1 hour ago, dweller25 said:

Your scope and BST eyepieces are fine 👍 it might be best to avoid the supplied 10mm

Your scope must be well cooled and collimated for best results.

X150 to x180 is about perfect for Jupiter

Best time to observe is when it is due south at it’s highest

Try to avoid observing over warm rooftops

Thanks David, greatly appreciated.

Sometimes it's nice just to get a second opinion and have it underlined that you're heading in the right direction.

10mm EP went pretty much straight away, hence the move to the BST EP's. Still use the kit 25mm as that seems fine and reviews for it were ok too.

Viewing wise, I guess I'm lucky. I'm at the end of a run of houses and my view is out of the village across open fields. Street light re my main obstacle. 

I'll keep at it. 👍

[Ed in UK]

1 hour ago, PeterC65 said:

My advice is to keep trying. The more you observe, the more you tend to see, I don't know why, but it is definitely a thing. The conditions affect planetary observing, different conditions on different nights and variations on a single night. Try observing on different nights when the seeing will be different, and spend an hour just observing Jupiter, maybe coming back to it a few times. It still surprises me how the detail can suddenly jump out at you for several seconds.

 

Thanks Peter.

Yes, I recall my first sighting of the belts on Jupiter and it took me a couple of attempts to see them.

Of recent I've been spending more time looking at just one target which really does help. As you say "The more you look, the more you see".

My last session included about an hour on Jupiter, all I got that time was a fuzzy cream disc with occasional equatorial belts for a second. I did wonder off on to other targets for that night with the plan of returning at the end to see if it had improved. Unfortunately got clouded out before I could return. 🙄

I'll keep trying.

Thanks for your support. 🙂

[John]

Spending time observing a single target really does pay dividends even if you are an experienced observer. With Jupiter, observing it where there is still some light in the sky helps as well. I've had some of my best views of Jupiter in quite bright twilight conditions. Dark adaptation does not help with planetary observing.

Because the seeing conditions vary all the time (often minute by minute) spending time observing allows the eye to adjust to the brightness / contrast levels and the extended viewing allows these moments of really good seeing to register. 

I've been observing Jupiter for 50 years but still often get a session where all I see at the outset is the cream disk and the two major cloud belts. 30-45 minutes later, seeing conditions allowing, and I'm seeing much more detail, more cloud belts, the GRS if it is on the disk and other features as well.

 

[PeterStudz]

As @John says.

I use to think that I was a bit “keen” getting up to observe Jupiter at silly o’clock during the last two summers, but some of the best views I’ve had have been as the sun was coming up and the sky not completely dark. And at the beginning of this year, when we had some of my daughter’s friends over, we managed  to locate and observe Jupiter in the late afternoon. Watched as it slowly got dark. Some of the best views I’ve had. 

And NOT getting eyes use to the dark. You are looking at something with colour and something with subtle colour contrast. For that you need the cone cells in your eyes working. I often look at a light (like my phone screen) from time to time. Or go back inside to make a coffee etc. When back out the difference can be surprising.

Having the telescope cooled. My 8” Dob needs around an hour for planetary. Observing for lots of time - but I’m like that anyway. I’m not one for looking at lots of targets in one night. 

[Bugdozer]

One thing not yet mentioned in this thread is what these features actually look like compared to the rest of the planet. It helps to know what it really looks like. 

The GRS is not the big dark red blob you imagine it to be. It's a pale salmon pink colour and crucially it is very close in brightness to most of the rest of the surface, it's mostly the colour that differentiates it rather than the brightness. However, it does push into the darker south equatorial belt, so the easiest way to spot it is that it makes the belt appear narrower at that point. 

Shadow transits look to me exactly like a very tiny black pinhole on the surface, easiest to see when they're not right by the edge. 

I can see these things in my 125mm scope at around 130x magnification, although depending on seeing a higher magnification can show more. As others have said, letting the scope cool properly makes a difference, and so does practice at observing these things. Over time you will see more. 

[Ed in UK]

Thanks @John and @PeterStudz

[Ed in UK]

13 hours ago, Bugdozer said:

One thing not yet mentioned in this thread is what these features actually look like compared to the rest of the planet. It helps to know what it really looks like. 

The GRS is not the big dark red blob you imagine it to be. It's a pale salmon pink colour and crucially it is very close in brightness to most of the rest of the surface, it's mostly the colour that differentiates it rather than the brightness. However, it does push into the darker south equatorial belt, so the easiest way to spot it is that it makes the belt appear narrower at that point. 

Shadow transits look to me exactly like a very tiny black pinhole on the surface, easiest to see when they're not right by the edge. 

I can see these things in my 125mm scope at around 130x magnification, although depending on seeing a higher magnification can show more. As others have said, letting the scope cool properly makes a difference, and so does practice at observing these things. Over time you will see more. 

Thanks @Bugdozer.

Thank you for your explanations, really useful.

I'll keep plugging away and we'll get there one day..... lol

[Mr Spock]

+1 for patience. To see detail you really need to study the disk for a long time. It also help with seeing conditions which may not be perfect. Every now and then things will steady and detail pops into view.

Although I have managed x224 with the 4" on a night of good seeing, I mostly get my best views at x148. Jupiter is quite low contrast and using too much magnification can blur everything out.

[PeterStudz]

@Mr Spock is spot on. Someone on here once said that “astronomy is a hobby that rewards patience”. Something that has stuck in my mind ever since because it’s so true. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by PeterStudz

[Gonariu]

For me, Jupiter was a planet from which I got very little with few exceptions. In one of these, a couple of years ago, I diaphragmed the Konusuper 120 to 90 mm both due to a lateral chipping of the achromatic doublet and to reduce too many aberrations with the free aperture of 120 mm; I had seen a certain number of bands without problems and had made a drawing of them which I still have. On the contrary, looking at Mars in the opposition of 2022, I could see something even with the Konus Vista sent to 200X with an achromatic Barlow and mounted on a photographic tripod (it was a bit too inconvenient for tracking.....) . On a beautiful and cold night I looked at Jupiter three days ago with the Konusuper 120 always diaphragmed at 90 mm, I used a 6 mm Plossl and I could see, in addition to the two equatorial bands, also a temperate one to the south with some black condensation on it and on the northern equatorial band which seemed slightly irregular in its upper edge. I'm not using the Nexstar 8 SE both because of the bad seeing that often occurred last autumn and because I would have to make myself a lens hood with a black cloth inside to absorb the humidity which I haven't done yet (the hairdryer is a good solution if the correcting plate fogs up, putting in cold air?).

[Voxish]

On 21/12/2023 at 16:18, John said:

Spending time observing a single target really does pay dividends even if you are an experienced observer. With Jupiter, observing it where there is still some light in the sky helps as well. I've had some of my best views of Jupiter in quite bright twilight conditions. Dark adaptation does not help with planetary observing.

Because the seeing conditions vary all the time (often minute by minute) spending time observing allows the eye to adjust to the brightness / contrast levels and the extended viewing allows these moments of really good seeing to register. 

I've been observing Jupiter for 50 years but still often get a session where all I see at the outset is the cream disk and the two major cloud belts. 30-45 minutes later, seeing conditions allowing, and I'm seeing much more detail, more cloud belts, the GRS if it is on the disk and other features as well.

 

Absolutely. People spend too little time at the eyepiece observing specific targets and dash between them too much. The more time you spend at the eyepiece and the more comfortable and relaxed you are the more you will see. 
 

Just a couple of other things to think about, clothes (you need to be toasty warm) and a comfortable adjustable and safe observing chair. A good chair will keep you at the eyepiece longer

[John]

11 minutes ago, Voxish said:

Absolutely. People spend too little time at the eyepiece observing specific targets and dash between them too much.....

Thats the challenge with outreach type events - inexperienced eyes getting quick glimpses. Even with the "showpiece" targets, with the exception of the moon perhaps, I suspect participants can be a little underwhelmed at times. Most are too polite to say so though 🙄

Edited December 22, 2023 by John

[bosun21]

I spend an inordinate amount of time on the planets to coax out the maximum amount of detail. Warm clothing and a seated position helps tremendously with longer periods at the eyepiece. Jupiter is my favourite planet as the surface details change so quickly.

[Voxish]

13 hours ago, John said:

Thats the challenge with outreach type events - inexperienced eyes getting quick glimpses. Even with the "showpiece" targets, with the exception of the moon perhaps, I suspect participants can be a little underwhelmed at times. Most are too polite to say so though 🙄

I couldn’t agree with you more. Hard to see what we can do about, especially as we usually have a queue waiting for a glimpse 

[John_D]

Are there any recommendations for an observing chair for a reflector telescope? I normally mix viewing and imaging and stand for the viewing and take a seat while the camera is doing its thing. But it would be nice to ba able to have a seat during an extended viewing session.

( +1 for the warm clothing, that makes a huge difference in my experience. I've been taking a flask of tea out as well recently which is very pleasant. Haven't tried the hip flask yet 😁 )

[PeterC65]

I use a Geoptik Nadira observing chair with my Newtonian's (150PDS and 200PDS) and find it works well at all altitudes, you just have to adjust the seat hight to match the eyepiece height. Mine is heavily modified as I found it flexed a little under my considerable weight!

 

[Voxish]

I use this one: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astronomy-observing-chairs/berlebach-nix-ii-observers-chair.html

It’s expensive, but safe and endlessly adjustable very quickly. The reason I say safe is I had a nasty accident a few years ago with the traditional ironing chair lots of us use. The zenith is never an easy spot to observe (M31) and the short version of the story has be going over backwards falling heavily on the bolted on seat and breaking 3 ribs. Very, very painful and incredibly inconvenient as I had just started a new job at the university and really couldn’t take the time off with a ton of students relying on me. Anyway that was the last time I used a dobsonian or an ironing board chair. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Voxish
Missed a word

[Ratlet]

I've also got the Nadira although I've been keeping mine out the shed and I think the humidity has gotten to it and the seat bit no longer fits in the holes!  Not a criticism of the chair (easily fixed, just need to not keep it in a damp shed).  It works really well and has vastly improved my observing experience.  You can focus more on observing rather than keeping your balance

[Voxish]

Just now, Ratlet said:

I've also got the Nadira although I've been keeping mine out the shed and I think the humidity has gotten to it and the seat bit no longer fits in the holes!  Not a criticism of the chair (easily fixed, just need to not keep it in a damp shed).  It works really well and has vastly improved my observing experience.  You can focus more on observing rather than keeping your balance

Exactly, see above 

[bosun21]

I bought a Berlebach Charon which is one of my best ever astro buys. Solidly built and comfortable into the bargain. It's also extremely stable.

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by bosun21

[PeterStudz]

17 hours ago, John said:

Thats the challenge with outreach type events - inexperienced eyes getting quick glimpses. Even with the "showpiece" targets, with the exception of the moon perhaps, I suspect participants can be a little underwhelmed at times. Most are too polite to say so though 🙄

Funny how some people get this straightaway and others don’t. I can think of two examples.

One where my daughter had a friend over in the summer for a sleepover. They’d already done similar before so they knew roughly what it was about. I’d set the telescope out and gone to bed for a a while as Saturn & Jupiter weren’t up until about 2am. The girls were so excited that they couldn’t sleep and I got a text telling me to “get up we want to see the planets”. Mind, some of that could have been down to the promise of hot chocolate and toasted marshmallows!

Or when I had an old university friend staying over at the weekend. He had never looked through a telescope before. But when I showed him Saturn & Jupiter I couldn’t get him away from the eyepiece. Continued observing for over 2 hours, mostly Jupiter, as Saturn was starting to get low. I was going to try some other targets but soon realised that there wasn’t any point. 

[Franklin]

27 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

I've also got the Nadira although I've been keeping mine out the shed and I think the humidity has gotten to it and the seat bit no longer fits in the holes!  Not a criticism of the chair (easily fixed, just need to not keep it in a damp shed). 

Snap! I did exactly the same thing and the damp must have caused the wood to swell up. Brought it indoors to dry out and shrink and gave it a light rub down with some sandpaper and all is back to how it should be.