Best UK Seeing locations

[Froeng]

I have often asked myself where the best locations for astronomical seeing would be in the UK. 

One reads reports from places like La Palma or Southern California, where there is a steady laminar air flow from the ocean and you are at medium to high altitude. I have no illusions of a similar steadiness of the atmosphere being possible on the British Isles, but... does anyone know of a good spot in the UK that has at least above average seeing conditions in general. It may be an "upwind" or "downwind" location on the side of a specific hill or high land area (thinking Exmoor or Dartmoor here). Or it may be somewhere completely different. It would not need to be a dark site either...

I tried searching on the web, but all it gives you is dark sky areas. No mention of seeing...

Any ideas?

[Bugdozer]

I suspect there's nowhere in Britain that is consistent enough to be able to list like that. It's often joked that whilst other countries have "climate", Britain has "weather". But there's a grain of truth in that. Many places in the world have extremely set, predictable weather conditions. The second week in July will have a 90% probability of being exactly the same as the year before and the year after in terms of temperature, clouds, humidity etc. Britain is not like that. Temperatures are hugely variable, as is everything else. There's an interesting web page with ongoing updates which measures how accurate UK weather forecasts actually are, and it's really only around 40% or less accurate at the best of times. 

[Roy Challen]

Ask yourself not where but when. From my garden, between 2am and 5am, the seeing is good more often than not, and excellent every now and then.

I've had over 50 sessions this year, which is about average for me, but far more than most if the recent run of weather depression threads is anything to go by.

Besides, if a place is found to have good seeing but is at the other end of the country, it won't be of much use to you!

[Space Hopper]

Can anyone recommend any sites or apps that show where the jetstream is in relation to the UK, which could affect seeing conditions for us when observing ?

[globular]

28 minutes ago, Space Hopper said:

Can anyone recommend any sites or apps that show where the jetstream is in relation to the UK, which could affect seeing conditions for us when observing ?

Meteoblue is pretty good.

Jetstream here ...   
https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/maps/derby_united-kingdom_2651347#coords=4/52.92/-1.48&map=jetstream~hourly~auto~250 mb~none

And cloud and seeing here ...
https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/outdoorsports/seeing/derby_united-kingdom_2651347

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by globular

[Space Hopper]

@globular Thanks for posting. Thats a great resource.

[Froeng]

2 hours ago, Roy Challen said:

Ask yourself not where but when. From my garden, between 2am and 5am, the seeing is good more often than not, and excellent every now and then.

I've had over 50 sessions this year, which is about average for me, but far more than most if the recent run of weather depression threads is anything to go by.

Besides, if a place is found to have good seeing but is at the other end of the country, it won't be of much use to you!

Hi Roy, this is very true. Although, to get to a dark place am happy to drive about an hour. Who knows the killer-seeing spot may be an hour away, but in the opposite direction! I have found the seeing on my balcony to be quite good, even though I am in town. The 10m+ elevation off the surrounding ground seems to make a big difference. Maybe there are some hills somewhere where this effect is even more pronounced...🤔

 

[Zermelo]

2 hours ago, Space Hopper said:

Can anyone recommend any sites or apps that show where the jetstream is in relation to the UK, which could affect seeing conditions for us when observing ?

There are several; I use this one:
https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/global-jetstream#2023/10/28/1200Z/jetstream/surface/level/overlay=jetstream/orthographic=-6.72,57.59,712

Of course, a strong jet stream doesn't always result in poor seeing. Sites like Meteoblue, linked above, try to predict the seeing with models that take in a range of data. I've not found them to be too accurate, but then they can't account for very local factors. Even if the air column is very stable above me, Saturn may still look like mush if my neighbour has lit his fire on a cold evening.

[John]

15 hours ago, Zermelo said:

...Of course, a strong jet stream doesn't always result in poor seeing. Sites like Meteoblue, linked above, try to predict the seeing with models that take in a range of data. I've not found them to be too accurate, but then they can't account for very local factors. Even if the air column is very stable above me, Saturn may still look like mush if my neighbour has lit his fire on a cold evening.

I agree. Local issues seem to have a significant impact on seeing, probably even more than the Jetstream position. Central heating plumes as the colder season draws in but in the warmer months residual heat from roofs, roads and car parks seeping back up into the sky.

Given all the "stuff" that can happen between our target object and our scopes it's amazing that we can see much at all ! 🙄

 

[bosun21]

45 minutes ago, John said:

I agree. Local issues seem to have a significant impact on seeing, probably even more than the Jetstream position. Central heating plumes as the colder season draws in but in the warmer months residual heat from roofs, roads and car parks seeping back up into the sky.

Given all the "stuff" that can happen between our target object and our scopes it's amazing that we can see much at all ! 🙄

 

That's why I love the small hours of the morning when most of what you mentioned has dissipated. However I pay for it the next day 🥱.