Please help - buying first imaging rig

[Mr Green]

I'll have a look and see if I can find a longer dovetail online and if I get stuck, I'll ask Alex at FLO which one I need as he's been amazing helping me get setup.

[WolfieGlos]

1 hour ago, Mr Green said:

Hopefully I'll manage although dec balancing the 72ed with the dslr attached is impossible!! Very weighted on backend but hoping I'll still be able to image as everything stays put when clutch is tightened.

Alex at FLO has also helped me out a lot, as did Chris when I first started up. I ordered a longer dovetail when getting the 72 ed but didn’t need it, so I returned it.

Do you have a ballhead from a camera tripod? If so, you can attach it to the top of the tube ring with the small thread. I used to mount my guidescope like this and I achieved balance with the supplied dovetail - see below, note I had a red dot scope in the findershoe to help out. With hindsight, it looks like it wouldn’t be in balance, but it was. 

I can’t recall if the thread is on the front or rear tube ring, but if it’s on the back, you can simply take the scope out and turn it around to shift the weight forwards. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by WolfieGlos

[AstroNebulee]

1 hour ago, Mr Green said:

Very kind of you to offer, I'll drop you a pm if I struggle at all with focusing as I wouldn't want you going out of your way. Hopefully I'll manage although dec balancing the 72ed with the dslr attached is impossible!! Very weighted on backend but hoping I'll still be able to image as everything stays put when clutch is tightened.

I fitted a longer dovetail bar on mine and did the trick for balancing better. 

[Mr Green]

I have a couple of tripods somewhere so will check. Moved up North a few years ago and still not fully unpacked.

The longer dovetail was what I was thinking of trying but not sure what size I'd need. The one supplied is 12cm and I didn't think that I could use the medium size (21cm) because of there not being enough length on the scope for the tube rings.

The above image is very helpful though.... guessing you just use the middle screw holes of the dovetail for attaching the rings and this is the 21cm size?

[WolfieGlos]

If I recall I think the ZWO finder scope shoe even screwed directly onto the tube ring thread without the ballhead… it just takes some tweaking to get it facing the right way, but I was never happy with it myself.

Not sure about the longer dovetail, I ordered the 21cm version but I never tried it. But good point, assume @AstroNebulee drilled some holes or ordered a slotted bar? A much more high tech setup, and I like how the AsiAir is mounted! 

Edit, or alternatively, look at this one up for sale… https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/414766-for-sale-skywatcher-72ed/ that’s one long dovetail bar! Maybe message the owner and ask if he can remember which dovetail that was.

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by WolfieGlos

[AstroNebulee]

12 hours ago, Mr Green said:

I have a couple of tripods somewhere so will check. Moved up North a few years ago and still not fully unpacked.

The longer dovetail was what I was thinking of trying but not sure what size I'd need. The one supplied is 12cm and I didn't think that I could use the medium size (21cm) because of there not being enough length on the scope for the tube rings.

The above image is very helpful though.... guessing you just use the middle screw holes of the dovetail for attaching the rings and this is the 21cm size?

I can't remember what I did to the dovetail bar now. When I'm home ill measure it and try to take some photos for you. I think I drilled new holes in the dovetail bar. But will check. 

Lee 

[AstroNebulee]

11 hours ago, WolfieGlos said:

Not sure about the longer dovetail, I ordered the 21cm version but I never tried it. But good point, assume @AstroNebulee drilled some holes or ordered a slotted bar? A much more high tech setup, and I like how the AsiAir is mounted! 

The asiair was about the only place to mount it to avoid to many wires and just loop wires enough between the Counterweight bar to avoid snagging and keeps everything in line and no weight on either side. 

I drilled holes in the dovetail bar I think but will take photos later and size. 

Lee

[happy-kat]

I think the OP has mentioned they have a DSLR 500d won't that be heavier then an astro cam 

[Elp]

I've been buying the Askar dovetail bars of late, they're excellent as they come in three different lengths and more importantly have multiple slots perpendicular to the length of the bar so there's no need to align holes, many vixen dovetail bars only have fixing points down the centre of the bar. They also have tiny holes each end underneath to act as physical stops with the supplied bolts. As a bonus you can buy them in a choice of colours if you're so inclined. The only issue I'd see, if you go really long and mount the scope one end of the bar, your dslr body may interfere with the bar if you choose to rotate it for framing purposes, in that case you'd need some riser blocks or what I usually do, cut up a cheaper dovetail bar and use them sandwiched to the main dovetail to lift it up. In such a scenario you'd have to take some measurements and order the right length cap head screws to suit.

[Mr Green]

I definitely don't have the tools to be drilling holes into dovetails so will drop a message to FLO and have my fingers crossed they can recommend a solution.

In the meantime, today has presented us with clear skies where I am so I'm hopeful to get outside later.

No Dec balance will hopefully still let me take some guided images for at least a couple of minutes.... probably not.

[AstroNebulee]

2 hours ago, Mr Green said:

I definitely don't have the tools to be drilling holes into dovetails so will drop a message to FLO and have my fingers crossed they can recommend a solution.

In the meantime, today has presented us with clear skies where I am so I'm hopeful to get outside later.

No Dec balance will hopefully still let me take some guided images for at least a couple of minutes.... probably not.

I have measured mine and it's a 21cm green skywatcher dovetail bar that I had to drill one hole part way down and recess it and use one of the existing pre drilled holes at the end of the bar. 

Looking at my guidescope dovetail bar it too is a 21cm one and slotted, so this should suit why you need for mounting your 72ed to your mount. 

I think I got it of a fellow member here but there are many slotted dovetail bars at flo to do the job. 

You should also be fine balancing your dslr when you have the new dovetail bar as I used to use a dslr before my astro camera. 

If flo don't have what you want I saw on the bay here 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284647417484?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=MsnxS3WGSCy&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=Fo3Iht4XRKy&var=586276580261&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Lee 

Edited October 22, 2023 by AstroNebulee

[Mr Green]

Thanks for letting me know. I don't have the tools to be modifying dovetails so it's good to know that I need to look at alternatives.

The askar dovetails look like the best option for me personally. Just need to work out whether 200mm is enough and if 300mm will be too much.

[Mr Green]

Hi All, just wanted to confirm that I've managed to balance the scope (Skywatcher Evo 72ED) with a William Optics 210mm dovetail.

I think a few people have had this issue with this particular scope therefore the link is below as an FYI.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dovetails-saddles-clamps/william-optics-dsd-210-plate.html

Although I now have the scope balanced, I haven't been able to use it because of the damn clouds.

Below are a couple of images I managed to get processed from earlier in the week and please don't judge, they're my first ever images.

[AstroNebulee]

8 hours ago, Mr Green said:

Hi All, just wanted to confirm that I've managed to balance the scope (Skywatcher Evo 72ED) with a William Optics 210mm dovetail.

I think a few people have had this issue with this particular scope therefore the link is below as an FYI.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dovetails-saddles-clamps/william-optics-dsd-210-plate.html

Although I now have the scope balanced, I haven't been able to use it because of the damn clouds.

Below are a couple of images I managed to get processed from earlier in the week and please don't judge, they're my first ever images.

I'm pleased you got the scope balanced all ok now. Those are great images, well done 👏. You should see my first images, they definitely weren't as good as yours. 

Lee 

Edited October 27, 2023 by AstroNebulee

[Mal22]

10 hours ago, Mr Green said:

Hi All, just wanted to confirm that I've managed to balance the scope (Skywatcher Evo 72ED) with a William Optics 210mm dovetail.

I think a few people have had this issue with this particular scope therefore the link is below as an FYI.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dovetails-saddles-clamps/william-optics-dsd-210-plate.html

Although I now have the scope balanced, I haven't been able to use it because of the damn clouds.

Below are a couple of images I managed to get processed from earlier in the week and please don't judge, they're my first ever images.

Great start! Much better than my first efforts. The journey begins… 

I started out about 18 months ago and found it very frustrating at the start - felt like I was asking simple questions but only getting complicated answers - with better understanding now, I can now look back and appreciate that those answers were the answers! I just needed to be patient and allow my knowledge of the hobby/obsession to grow. 

Keep it up and enjoy 😊 

 

 

[Mr Green]

Hi All,

I've had some great advice and help on the forum getting up and running with imaging.

Clear skies have been few and far between since getting started but managed to get setup for a while early hours of this morning.

M42 was insight therefore couldn't resist.

I took 5 min exposures and the clouds ruined the party after only 4 shots. I thought it would be a waste of time processing the images, especially as I am using a stock DSLR..... but I don't think this is bad, especially as it's my first attempt at nebula.

I'm now looking at getting a ZWO color cooled camera as I am well and truly hooked.

Please somebody tell me that I am insane to be looking at the ZWO 2600MC pro!!

[AstroNebulee]

13 hours ago, Mr Green said:

Hi All,

I've had some great advice and help on the forum getting up and running with imaging.

Clear skies have been few and far between since getting started but managed to get setup for a while early hours of this morning.

M42 was insight therefore couldn't resist.

I took 5 min exposures and the clouds ruined the party after only 4 shots. I thought it would be a waste of time processing the images, especially as I am using a stock DSLR..... but I don't think this is bad, especially as it's my first attempt at nebula.

I'm now looking at getting a ZWO color cooled camera as I am well and truly hooked.

Please somebody tell me that I am insane to be looking at the ZWO 2600MC pro!!

That's a brilliant image well done. The the clear skies have been non existent down here in Cornwall so I'm pleased you got something where you are. 5 min exposures are to long really for M42 as the core gets blown out easily. Try a series of 15-30 secs for the core and longer exposures for the outer detail, then blend them together. It's an outstanding image and one to be proud of. Keep up with your dslr for the moment I would say and learn that way then go for the dedicated astro camera. You really do get to learn so much about astrophotography and then will hit the ground running when you get your astro camera 😊

Lee

Edited November 5, 2023 by AstroNebulee

[Mr Green]

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the advice and kind words. I never thought about stacking with different exposure times but makes sense as the cores definitely blown out.

The main reason why I am fixed on an astro cam is that I want to target emission nebula. I did contemplate the 533mc pro but the small square sensor potentially needing to do mosaics to fit targets is off putting.

I think that I am just impatient haha.

[AstroNebulee]

2 hours ago, Mr Green said:

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the advice and kind words. I never thought about stacking with different exposure times but makes sense as the cores definitely blown out.

The main reason why I am fixed on an astro cam is that I want to target emission nebula. I did contemplate the 533mc pro but the small square sensor potentially needing to do mosaics to fit targets is off putting.

I think that I am just impatient haha.

Hi

Ahh the age old debate of the 533 square sensor and other astro cams with the rectangular sensors. A bit of a mine field. I have the 294mc pro and works done with my set up, though I don't use a dual band filter with I believe can have issues with this sensor regarding flats but I could be wrong. I use mine with a astronomik L3 filter to cut down the bloat and can calibrate fine with darks, flats and flat darks. 

You could look at astronomy tools website to see what your set up could manage with the 533. Then see how many targets won't fit on the sensor. 

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/

Of course you're not tied to zwo cameras and maybe others out there that will work for you. I can only comment on what I have, works for me and my experiences. Others with better knowledge will be along shortly. 

Lee 

[Mr Green]

I've watched more videos online than I can count to try and get an idea as to what camera would be best for me, it's certainly a mine field. 

Unfortunately I have the ASIair plus and this is only compatible with ZWO cameras. This therefore limits me and speaking to the guys at Flo, they've swayed me towards a camera with zero amp glow.

This leaves me with 2 choices really, the 533 or 2600. The latter having a much larger IR cut protective sensor is oh so tempting.... but!! An extra £1k!! 

I add it to a shopping basket 4 or 5 times a day but get cold feet as it's a crazy sum of money.

I've been using Telescopius with my setup to get an idea on field of view. The 533 definitely has its limits whereas the 2600 seems perfect.

Hopefully there will be some Black Friday deals this month....

[Elp]

If you're in it for the long haul and can stomach the cost for something that hardly gets used the 2600 is the way to go, it's probably the one most of us would like to have. But I wouldn't discredit the 533, the majority of targets are quite small. The larger sensor will also call for more accurate backspacing if you wish to get pin point stars across the frame to the edge, smaller sensors are forgiving in this regard.

[Albir phil]

On 20/10/2023 at 00:00, Mr Green said:

Evening All,

I've decided to go with the SW 72ED, GTi mount, field flattener and a few other accessories including an ASIair bundle.

Order arrives on Saturday therefore fingers crossed we have clear skies.

I think that this will do me nicely to start with although went over budget.... whoops 

Going over budget in this game is usually quite common I think you will find.

[Mr Green]

I've definitely not discredited the 533mc, it's more a case of wanting the best possible camera for my setup to achieve great results. 

I've very quickly learnt that clear skies are a blessing when they come and time is of the essence to get pictures taken. This is why mono is out of the question.... and possibly having to do mosaics.

Maybe the 533 can work for me..... I just don't want to be disappointed with the limited fov compared to what I am used too via DSLR.

The DSLR is definitely holding me back so a decision will be made soon.

If anyone can share some images taken with the 533 & 2600 around my focal length (420mm), that'd be helpful seeing the difference in quality.

[Elp]

Two different setups but cropped down to around the 370mm of my Z61 with the 533:

 

 

[Mr Green]

That's a great image, also very helpful with getting an idea on image size as the dumbell nebula is very small in comparison to something like the heart nebula.

I'll spend a bit more time playing around with Telescopius to see if I really need the larger sensor.

Spending £850ish is much more appealing than nearly £1.9k.