Poll: Two choices

[Mark2022]

You have £600 to burn. You're faced with a choice of second hand kit. Which  one do you choose?

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Up to you but I think maybe you would get more honest replies if you make both choices to come to £600 otherwise I think everyone will tend towards the 2nd option (although could be wrong).
Maybe just add what the spare £200 would be used for (other astro stuff or used elsewhere).

Another thought would be to mention what you want it for, I assume visual as responses from imagers will probably differ to what somebody strictly visual.

Steve

Edited July 25, 2023 by teoria_del_big_bang

[Mark2022]

1 minute ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Up to you but I think maybe you would get more honest replies if you make both choices to come to £600 otherwise I think everyone will tend towards the 2nd option (although could be wrong).
Maybe just add what the spare £200 would be used for (other astro stuff or used elsewhere).

Steve

But the choice I have is not £600 each, it is £400 and £600.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Fair enough but to me its an odd one to answer because you are burning £600 but make no mention of what the spare £200 would be used for so for me I cannot say one way or the other. But it was just my thoughts, to what was in my mind when trying to answer your poll.

Steve

[Mark2022]

Steve, YOU decide whether you'd spend the £600 on the 200P and HEQ5 or £400 on the other and then say what you'd do with the £200, if you wish. It's a choice after all. I never thought this would be difficult.

[bosun21]

I would go for the HEQ5 pro and 200p simply on the total money you would save especially if a visual observer. If you want to do AP then the 130PDS and EQ5 pro will certainly get you started on that road. I am unsure whether you can achieve focus with a camera in the 200P without a barlow or fitting a low profile focuser etc. I am not entirely  sure on this though.

Edited July 25, 2023 by bosun21

[fwm891]

A simple statement like I'm a visual astronomer or I'm an imager which is my best option...

[Swoop1]

200P on HEQ5PRO for me.

I already have a 150P so bigger light bucket every time.

[Mark2022]

I'm an imager.

[Space Hopper]

Aperture rules, but understand a 200P is a fair old size and may be pushing an EQ5 class mount a bit.

[Mark2022]

Just now, Space Hopper said:

Aperture rules, but understand a 200P is a fair old size and may be pushing an EQ5 class mount a bit.

But it's an HEQ5.

[Space Hopper]

Understood. It should be ok, but close to maxing it out with an 8" tube +all your imaging add-ons.

[Mark2022]

29 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

I would go for the HEQ5 pro and 200p simply on the total money you would save especially if a visual observer. If you want to do AP then the 130PDS and EQ5 pro will certainly get you started on that road. I am unsure whether you can achieve focus with a camera in the 200P without a barlow or fitting a low profile focuser etc. I am not entirely  sure on this though.

I read of people a lot who use the 200P, as is, for imaging. What keeps me questioning is how an 8 inch F5 doesn't allow for faster exposures than a 5 inch F5. I guess it's just the same amount of light but from a wider  FOV?

[Mark2022]

6 minutes ago, Space Hopper said:

Understood. It should be ok, but close to maxing it out with an 8" tube +all your imaging add-ons.

Re the imaging add ons: At first, at least, I intend to not use guiding. I watched a talk by the guy who introduced Sharpcap who spoke about the fact that short exposures (albeit a ton of them - 30 seconds to 90 secs) end up being every bit as good (and sometimes better) than long (3 - 5  minute) ones. This can allow (perhaps not 90 seconds) for unguided exposures  as long as your polar alignment is good. So less imaging add ons necessary in that case. Essentially, then, just a DSLR.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

13 minutes ago, Mark2022 said:

Re the imaging add ons: At first, at least, I intend to not use guiding. I watched a talk by the guy who introduced Sharpcap who spoke about the fact that short exposures (albeit a ton of them - 30 seconds to 90 secs) end up being every bit as good (and sometimes better) than long (3 - 5  minute) ones. This can allow (perhaps not 90 seconds) for unguided exposures  as long as your polar alignment is good. So less imaging add ons necessary in that case. Essentially, then, just a DSLR.

There have been a few talks and videos on optimising sub lengths and you are right that to some extent long exposures are not always required and there will be an optimal sub length depending on the viewing that night, the brightness of the object you are imaging and your camera. But ideally for short subs to be effective you need a dedicated astro camera with very low read noise. 
I hold my hands up that I am no expert but I do think short exposures with a DSLR, even an astro modded one may be difficult on all but the brighter targets.

Steve

Edited July 25, 2023 by teoria_del_big_bang

[Mark2022]

1 minute ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

There have been a few talks and videos on optimising sub lengths and you are right that to some extent long exposures are not always required and there will be an optimal sun length depending on the viewing that night, the brightness of the object you are imaging and your camera. But ideally for short suns you need a dedicated astro camera with very low read noise. 
I hold my hands up that I am no expert but I do thing short exposures with a DSLR, even an astro modded one may be difficult on all but the brighter targets.  

Steve

Well, I do have an SVBony SV305 camera but have never used it yet and I know it  isn't 'top drawer' by any means but I got it for a song. I really don't wish to buy into the dedicated astro cameras. Just too pricey. Also, although imaging is my interest, it's only because I recognise that eye to eyepiece, you see very very little and EAA appeals to me more while being nice and cozy inside.

[bosun21]

Just checked and apparently you can achieve focus with a DSLR camera on the 200P. However the older blue tube 200P's can't.

[Mark2022]

40 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

Just checked and apparently you can achieve focus with a DSLR camera on the 200P. However the older blue tube 200P's can't.

The 200P is a 'Black Diamond' version. It would appear the 200P/HEQ5 is winning this poll outright so far. I  thought the 130PDS/eq5 would get a few votes too somehow, given how well thought of it is.

[Mark2022]

Who voted for the 130PDS? And what's you logic for that? I'd be interested to know.

[AstroNebulee]

2 minutes ago, Mark2022 said:

Who voted for the 130PDS? And what's you logic for that? I'd be interested to know.

I did. 

Just got a lot of respect for the 130pds and always liked the eq5 pro as a mount. 

I based it on my situation and as I live in a first floor flat the only manageable option for me would be the 130PDS option.

Lee 

[Clarkey]

I think both the 200P and the 130 PDS are good scopes. I went for the HEQ5 option for the mount really. I would probably sell on the 200P and buy a smaller scope which is better suited to the mount for imaging. A 200P will work on and HEQ5, but it really is at the limit.

[doublevodka]

Both are cheap for what they are, you're essentially getting the ota for free on each compared with the average prices I see around.

I've gone for the 130P-DS, yes, bigger is better, but the 200 has a large surface area and will be affected by the breeze quite a bit more, even on the beefier mount. Scotland has some weather, so worth taking that into account.

You seem to want a simple rig, so I've assumed manual focusing, the focuser will be better for your needs.

Either is good value tbh, but that's my take on it with minimal info.

Thank god it was two newts rather than frac vs newt otherwise it'd get heated in here 😂

[malc-c]

Given that an HEQ5 is over a grand for the mount alone, getting one with a 200P on top for £600 is such a bargain (assuming its in good condition).  The motors and controller in an HEQ5 are superior to those used on an EQ5 so (in theory at least) give better control for guiding...

I voted 200P / HEQ5... but then I'm biased 🙂 

 

 

[Mark2022]

1 hour ago, AstroNebulee said:

I did. 

Just got a lot of respect for the 130pds and always liked the eq5 pro as a mount. 

I based it on my situation and as I live in a first floor flat the only manageable option for me would be the 130PDS option.

Lee 

Makes sense! 🙂 I live in a 3 story 'townhouse' type of thing  but with a terrace  I can walk  out to from a door on the 1st  floor. It's actually the roof of my neighbour's carport (not exactly a carport but he drives under it to get to his house.) The construction belongs to me and is 5 x 5m. Spans a wall of my  house and another neighbour's. So, in fact, I have zero view of the west/south west and zero view of the east/north east. I can only see the north/west/south west from about 30  deg and up and out to the east/south east and south to just past the meridian from about 20 deg and up (all due to buildings). Of course, I can also point toward zenith (I'm at 54deg latitude). Just laid 5x5m artificial grass and presently  building a small obsy/shed about 1.7m x 1.7m and 1.8m to roof apex. Trying to copy a design by a  guy on here where the roof is split into 2 sections. "Skipper Billy"  (sorry I forget his actual name for now).

[Mark2022]

17 minutes ago, doublevodka said:

Both are cheap for what they are, you're essentially getting the ota for free on each compared with the average prices I see around.

I've gone for the 130P-DS, yes, bigger is better, but the 200 has a large surface area and will be affected by the breeze quite a bit more, even on the beefier mount. Scotland has some weather, so worth taking that into account.

You seem to want a simple rig, so I've assumed manual focusing, the focuser will be better for your needs.

Either is good value tbh, but that's my take on it with minimal info.

Thank god it was two newts rather than frac vs newt otherwise it'd get heated in here 😂

Yeah, I wanted to give minimal info because I wanted to hear people's reasoning for themselves and not necessarily for me. Yes, the frac v newt thing. LOL 

Oh and I take the weather into account nearly every blooming day! But when it's  good, it's good and I live in a bortle 3/4 on the border. It's not too bad.