The 60mm Doubles Project: An invitation to collaborate

[The60mmKid]

A call to all the 60mm refractor double star extraordinaires...

Over the years, I've spent many happy hours observing doubles with 60mm refractors. A while ago, I decided to set out on a quest that is equal parts ambitious, enjoyable, and unabashedly pointless—to observe and catalog every double star that can be observed with a 60mm refractor from my location (currently London). Here is the log that I am keeping of my observations:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18M8e2s9gzexgZFfJX9dTkQfAEbH5ahXds46rZTDF1bg/edit?usp=sharing

If you click on the "Project Description" tab at the bottom of the spreadsheet, you'll see a key for the symbols, terms, and sources that I'm using. At this time, I have logged about 80 doubles in Leo Minor, Canes Venatici, Corona Borealis, and Bootes. This is just a starting point, and it goes to show that there are enough doubles to keep small telescope owners engaged for years.

And so, I am inviting you intrepid 60mm observers to join the fun and post observations here. My hope is that this thread will serve as 1) a place for 60mm aficionados to enjoy sharing with each other and 2) a resource for those who wish to observe more doubles with their small telescopes. I'll keep updating my log and will also add posts here when I come across especially rewarding doubles. I invite other 60mm refractor observers (and admirers) to share their big enjoyment of their small scopes 😎

To close this introductory post, here's a picture of FOA-60Q dreaming about doubles in Bootes on a rainy London evening.

 

[The60mmKid]

To get this started, I'll post about one of my favorite 60mm doubles, STF 2816 in Cepheus. STF 2816 is actually a visual quadruple with three components that are easily visible/resolvable in a small telescope. There are a few things that I love about this system. It appears as a lovely little white/white/white triple amidst the rich open cluster Trumpler 37 in IC 1396, which is also home to the Elephant's Trunk Nebula. I haven't seen any nebulosity through the small scopes that I've used, but the cluster itself is gorgeous from a dark site. Because of its richness, it's easy to overlook STF 2816. But it's a joy when you notice this tiny triple sitting right at the heart of the open cluster. Panning over slightly, Herschel's Garnet Star enters the FOV, making the view all the more lovely.

Edited July 22, 2023 by The60mmKid

[Neil_104]

Great idea, love it. I will happily accept your invitation and join in the fun with my 60mm refractor. It's not quite a Tak but it still gives great views. There's just something about small scopes if you ask me. I find that "just a bit better than binoculars" view very appealing for some reason.

I can't promise to give the dedication you've described so far (too many objects to image and planets to view, well, soon at least!), but double stars have really captured my imagination recently. So thanks for posting and supplying all these doubles for us to track down 👍 STF 2816 next on my list!!

[Sunshine]

This is great! I wish i had a 60mm to participate, would it count if I stopped down my 102 to 60? 😅

[The60mmKid]

3 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

This is great! I wish i had a 60mm to participate, would it count if I stopped down my 102 to 60? 😅

Yes, we're a proud yet inclusive group. Please join in 😎

[Sunshine]

26 minutes ago, The60mmKid said:

Yes, we're a proud yet inclusive group. Please join in 😎

I was kidding, you’re kind but thank you, I wouldn’t, I will follow this thread as I am a huge doubles lover.

[Stu]

Nice idea! I’ll certainly follow and pick up a few with Freddie (FS-60Q). I have a couple of old guys who are in the 60mm class ie 63mm Telementor and 65mm TAL Alkor and they always do well on doubles.

There is something very beautiful about the stellar presentation in small scopes. The larger airy disks mean they show at lower mags and more easily hide the seeing mess that you can often get with larger scopes; their small airy disks are often hidden by poor seeing.

I often say it, but Izar is particularly stunning in these scopes; the secondary appearing like a blue/grey gem on a ring surrounding the primary. A lovely sight.

Looking forward to reading of your progress 👍

[The60mmKid]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Nice idea! I’ll certainly follow and pick up a few with Freddie (FS-60Q). I have a couple of old guys who are in the 60mm class ie 63mm Telementor and 65mm TAL Alkor and they always do well on doubles.

There is something very beautiful about the stellar presentation in small scopes. The larger airy disks mean they show at lower mags and more easily hide the seeing mess that you can often get with larger scopes; their small airy disks are often hidden by poor seeing.

I often say it, but Izar is particularly stunning in these scopes; the secondary appearing like a blue/grey gem on a ring surrounding the primary. A lovely sight.

Looking forward to reading of your progress 👍

I used the word "refractor" a few times in my initial post under the assumption that there aren't many ~60mm reflectors out there, but that TAL is definitely invited to the party. What a cool little scope!

[Richard N]

Great idea. Big is not always better. 

[NGC 1502]

 I think this is a really great idea (or it would be if it hadn’t been cloudy for so long😢).

The humble 60mm scope can sometimes be looked down upon as a beginner’s scope.  And yet how many of us (me included) have exhausted the possibilities of a scope before “upgrading” to something larger?

Over the years I’ve suffered from “upgrade-itus” with scopes and eyepieces, then ended up with so much stuff that only collects dust not starlight….

I’m wishing this idea every success 👍

Ed.

[The60mmKid]

9 hours ago, NGC 1502 said:

 I think this is a really great idea (or it would be if it hadn’t been cloudy for so long😢).

The humble 60mm scope can sometimes be looked down upon as a beginner’s scope.  And yet how many of us (me included) have exhausted the possibilities of a scope before “upgrading” to something larger?

Over the years I’ve suffered from “upgrade-itus” with scopes and eyepieces, then ended up with so much stuff that only collects dust not starlight….

I’m wishing this idea every success 👍

Ed.

Cheers, Ed!

An experience that planted this seed in my mind was observing at my previous club's dark site. I'd sometimes be joined by another observer who would come to use the club's 18" dob to seek out faint fuzzies. I think his goal was to log as many of the NGC galaxies as he possibly could. In any case, I realized that I was having as much fun--and a similar sort of fun--chasing down lesser-known double stars in my small refractor. He would spend the evening enjoying the process of finding/observing faint galaxies, with the occasional stunning view of a brighter galaxy, nebula, or cluster. And I'd spend the evening finding doubles that are hard to split (for my telescope), and/or faint, and/or that no one pays much attention to because they aren't as visually engaging. But then I'd get a view of some lovely showcase double that we all admire, or I'd "discover" a really captivating system that I hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere.

So, it was interesting to notice the similarities between our processes. Of course, the views of DSOs through an 18" dob at a dark site... Heaven. Who would argue against that? But I'm equally entralled with the gorgeous, sharp views that my little refractor offers me of double stars and the such. As @Richard N said, we sometimes simplistically believe that bigger is always better. But I'm pleased that my experience indicates that there's just more to it than that!

[The60mmKid]

10 hours ago, NGC 1502 said:

(or it would be if it hadn’t been cloudy for so long😢).

And yes... This is a bummer 😭

[Stu]

3 hours ago, The60mmKid said:

Cheers, Ed!

An experience that planted this seed in my mind was observing at my previous club's dark site. I'd sometimes be joined by another observer who would come to use the club's 18" dob to seek out faint fuzzies. I think his goal was to log as many of the NGC galaxies as he possibly could. In any case, I realized that I was having as much fun--and a similar sort of fun--chasing down lesser-known double stars in my small refractor. He would spend the evening enjoying the process of finding/observing faint galaxies, with the occasional stunning view of a brighter galaxy, nebula, or cluster. And I'd spend the evening finding doubles that are hard to split (for my telescope), and/or faint, and/or that no one pays much attention to because they aren't as visually engaging. But then I'd get a view of some lovely showcase double that we all admire, or I'd "discover" a really captivating system that I hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere.

So, it was interesting to notice the similarities between our processes. Of course, the views of DSOs through an 18" dob at a dark site... Heaven. Who would argue against that? But I'm equally entralled with the gorgeous, sharp views that my little refractor offers me of double stars and the such. As @Richard N said, we sometimes simplistically believe that bigger is always better. But I'm pleased that my experience indicates that there's just more to it than that!

This is so true. If you are pushing the boundaries of whichever scope you are using, it feels just as challenging and rewarding. Case in point; I recall observing the SN in M82, SN2014J I believe it was back in 2014. On one night I observed it with a 4” Genesis, and under my mag 19.2 skies it was a threshold object needing averted vision. It felt like a real achievement to get it even though it was mag 10.5 I think. The next night I used my Orion an optics VX12L and it was trivially easy to see. A much better view of both SN and the Galaxy but I know which observation I remember most vividly, and it wasn’t with the dob!

[The60mmKid]

I haven't seen this much red since my school exams.

[josefk]

54 minutes ago, The60mmKid said:

I haven't seen this much red since my school exams.

i don't have any other hobby where the urge/impulse/motivation to get on with it and the opportunity to get on with it are so decoupled 😞. On the upside i really have cultivated the patience of a saint and have plenty of opportunity to prove it!

[MalcolmM]

Great idea, I'll try and contribute. It'll encourage me to log my observations. And if that pic of your FOA does not convert people to the beauty of a 60mm scope,  nothing will 🙂Gorgeous!

Malcolm 

[Neil_104]

An unexpected clear night last night so I pounced on the opportunity to get some doubles bagged. Being that double star observing is a relatively new interest for me, I'm starting with some of the more well-known ones. Also with one hand slightly tied behind my back as my highest power eyepiece atm is a 7mm, which in a 360mm FL telescope isn't exactly setting any magnification records at 51x!

61 Cyg
=>Easy split at 32" separation but I wanted to observe this to make a sketch. Given its high proper motion, I'll return to it at various points in the future to chart its progress.

Alpha Her (Rasalgethi)
mag. 3-4/5.3, sep. 8.8"
=>Close split in 9mm (40x), clear split in 7mm. Both stars looked orangish to me.

Xi Boo
mag. 4.7/6.8, sep. 4.7"
=>Clearly split with 7mm, yellowish primary, orangish secondary. I could just about split it with the 9mm also - the atmosphere served to sometimes display a clear split with dark sky between both stars and at other times I could see one slightly elongated star.

Kappa Boo
mag. 4.5/6.7, sep. 14.1"
=>This wasn't in my plan (but it was in my Nexstar hand controller so I had a go at estimating based on what I'd seen so far. I guessed mag. 4/6 and a separation of 8", so not a million miles off. This double looked very nice, I saw it as a bright yellowish primary and an also bright but slightly fainter blueish secondary. Very nice and my favourite of the evening.

Zeta Lyr
mag. 4.4/5.6, sep. 44"
=>Another estimate from me as mag. 4/5 and separation of 20", ok, I was a bit out on the separation this time. I saw a whiteish primary and blueish/white secondary.

Epsilon Boo (Izar)
mag. 2.5/4.8, sep. 2.9"
=>FAILED to split! But nothing to do with the ability of my 60mm and everything to do with the aforementioned magnification limit. Must do something about that

Btw, to pick out these doubles I used the Observer's Sky Atlas by Erich Karkoschka. The 4th edition is just out and the star charts are very clear and well-designed. The colour scheme has been chosen so that when viewed under red light, the pertinent information stands out (stars, nebulae etc) and the less important details (such as chart boundaries) disappear. On the subject of doubles, it gives really nice diagrams on faster orbits up to the year 2050 so it's good for keeping track of such orbits for the coming decades. If there was one negative I think the book could be bigger, and for field use it would be better if it had been spiral bound. But in spite of this I can definitely recommend it!

[The60mmKid]

45 minutes ago, Neil_104 said:

An unexpected clear night last night so I pounced on the opportunity to get some doubles bagged. Being that double star observing is a relatively new interest for me, I'm starting with some of the more well-known ones. Also with one hand slightly tied behind my back as my highest power eyepiece atm is a 7mm, which in a 360mm FL telescope isn't exactly setting any magnification records at 51x!

61 Cyg
=>Easy split at 32" separation but I wanted to observe this to make a sketch. Given its high proper motion, I'll return to it at various points in the future to chart its progress.

Alpha Her (Rasalgethi)
mag. 3-4/5.3, sep. 8.8"
=>Close split in 9mm (40x), clear split in 7mm. Both stars looked orangish to me.

Xi Boo
mag. 4.7/6.8, sep. 4.7"
=>Clearly split with 7mm, yellowish primary, orangish secondary. I could just about split it with the 9mm also - the atmosphere served to sometimes display a clear split with dark sky between both stars and at other times I could see one slightly elongated star.

Kappa Boo
mag. 4.5/6.7, sep. 14.1"
=>This wasn't in my plan (but it was in my Nexstar hand controller so I had a go at estimating based on what I'd seen so far. I guessed mag. 4/6 and a separation of 8", so not a million miles off. This double looked very nice, I saw it as a bright yellowish primary and an also bright but slightly fainter blueish secondary. Very nice and my favourite of the evening.

Zeta Lyr
mag. 4.4/5.6, sep. 44"
=>Another estimate from me as mag. 4/5 and separation of 20", ok, I was a bit out on the separation this time. I saw a whiteish primary and blueish/white secondary.

Epsilon Boo (Izar)
mag. 2.5/4.8, sep. 2.9"
=>FAILED to split! But nothing to do with the ability of my 60mm and everything to do with the aforementioned magnification limit. Must do something about that

Btw, to pick out these doubles I used the Observer's Sky Atlas by Erich Karkoschka. The 4th edition is just out and the star charts are very clear and well-designed. The colour scheme has been chosen so that when viewed under red light, the pertinent information stands out (stars, nebulae etc) and the less important details (such as chart boundaries) disappear. On the subject of doubles, it gives really nice diagrams on faster orbits up to the year 2050 so it's good for keeping track of such orbits for the coming decades. If there was one negative I think the book could be bigger, and for field use it would be better if it had been spiral bound. But in spite of this I can definitely recommend it!

Thanks for the enjoyable report and the book recommendation!

[josefk]

Super notes @Neil_104. I enjoyed that.

[The60mmKid]

I'm back at it after weeks of clouds and then a period of traveling.

I spent a while in Bootes, observing:

• STF 1814
• STF 1812AB,C
• STF 1829
• HJ 2710AC
• STF 1839
• STF 1843AB

These ranged from "pleasant but unspectacular" to "undeniably boring." Craving something more fulfilling, I pointed the white tube at Draco and cranked it up to 300x (because FOA-60Q is the honey badger of telescopes) on one of my favorites: Eps Dra, Tyl. Tyl is like a demure, mysterious sibling of Izar... a lovely, bright yellow-white primary, and a grayish-blue secondary right on the primary's diffraction ring.

Edited August 20, 2023 by The60mmKid

[Mircea]

The60mmKid

I would like to join, this is such a great topic.

 

I saw it only few minutes ago and I'm very interested. The reason is since 2008, I'm a member of the 60mmTelescopeClub.

https://groups.io/g/The60mmTelescopeClub/messages

I reported there, some years ago, my progress in observing the Astronomical League's ''Double Star Observing Program''. I used my 60mm refractors on nearly all the stars in the program, excepting three (I think) which needed my 125mm Dobsonian.

 

I like using even smaller telescopes like my ''Royal Astro'' 50x910mm refractor. There never was such a telescope on the market. This is a Frankenscope.

The original ''Royal Astro'' 60x910mm objective was chipped and a friend succeeded to save it with help from a professional optician.

They cut down the lens to a clear aperture of 50mm. The chipping was eliminated.

 

Here is my observation made on May 26 of Epsilon 1-2 Lyrae.

The magnification was 108x obtained with a Zeiss K 30 microscope eyepiece having a focal length of 8.3mm.

As I tried to show in the drawing, stars C and D of Epsilon 2 aka 5 Lyr ( the wider pair) were visible with the Airy discs in contact.

At Epsilon 1 aka 4 Lyr, companion B was partialy hidden behind the primary star. However, is was enough to derive the Position Angle.

 

Clear sky, Mircea

 

 

[The60mmKid]

4 hours ago, Mircea said:

The60mmKid

I would like to join, this is such a great topic.

 

I saw it only few minutes ago and I'm very interested. The reason is since 2008, I'm a member of the 60mmTelescopeClub.

https://groups.io/g/The60mmTelescopeClub/messages

I reported there, some years ago, my progress in observing the Astronomical League's ''Double Star Observing Program''. I used my 60mm refractors on nearly all the stars in the program, excepting three (I think) which needed my 125mm Dobsonian.

 

I like using even smaller telescopes like my ''Royal Astro'' 50x910mm refractor. There never was such a telescope on the market. This is a Frankenscope.

The original ''Royal Astro'' 60x910mm objective was chipped and a friend succeeded to save it with help from a professional optician.

They cut down the lens to a clear aperture of 50mm. The chipping was eliminated.

 

Here is my observation made on May 26 of Epsilon 1-2 Lyrae.

The magnification was 108x obtained with a Zeiss K 30 microscope eyepiece having a focal length of 8.3mm.

As I tried to show in the drawing, stars C and D of Epsilon 2 aka 5 Lyr ( the wider pair) were visible with the Airy discs in contact.

At Epsilon 1 aka 4 Lyr, companion B was partialy hidden behind the primary star. However, is was enough to derive the Position Angle.

 

Clear sky, Mircea

 

 

Excellent! I extend a hearty "welcome!" Thanks for sharing the great sketch, and I look forward to following your contributions to the project!

[lunator]

Hi The 60mm kid

This looks afun project. I don't have any suitable scopes but will follow with interest.

From experience of using my 70mm scope you can push the mag to x140+ on a good night and should be able to observe pairs down to 2" with a Delta M of 2.5.They won't be split but they will be 2 objects.

It will be hard but rewarding 😁

Cheers

Ian

[Mircea]

Ian

You have a very interesting site with many pictures of difficult double stars taken by you, congratulations!

 

The60mmKid

Thank you for the welcome ! 

Last December I had the honor to contribute to the ''Observer's Challenge Report'', a project by Roger Rivester and Fred Rayworth, advised since 2018 by Sue French. The object of that month was Iota Cas, always a favorite of mine.

I used for that observation my ETX 90x1250mm Maksutov telescope. Here are the details :

https://rogerivester.com/2022/12/04/iota-cassiopeia-triple-star-december-2022-observers-challenge-report-167/

When I choose ETX  I was very confident it will do the job because I resolved Iota Cas with my 60x700mm refractor since 2010.

Later I got a better 60x828mm refractor, seen in the picture below, next to my 200mm F/6.16 Dobsonian.

 

The 60x828mm refractor was used for the observation below. This instrument is fully capable of splitting Iota Cas and many other double and multiple stars.

Clear sky, Mircea

 

[lunator]

That is an excellent result.

For the 60mm you should be able to split pairs separated by ~1.9" and a delta Mag of ~2-2.5.

I'll have a dig into the WDS to see if there are any suitable pairs.

Cheers

Ian