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Need advise regarding mount for DSO astrophotography


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Hello. I only have a DSLR camera with kit lens. I've been advised to get a mount so I can get longer exposure pictures. I'm mostly interested in DSO's. I don't want to spend TOO much, but I want to get something that will give me a little room to grow in terms of equipment. 

If the mount has tracking with goto, that would be ideal. And something around 500eur would be ideal. Here are some of the mounts I looked at so far:

The reviews for this one aren't nice, seems to be buggy with it's tracking:

https://www.astroshop.eu/equatorial-with-goto/explore-scientific-mount-iexos-100-pmc-8-wi-fi-goto/p,61886

Skywatcher EQ3: I've read some good things about this one. The only big con being the weight limit:

https://www.astroshop.eu/equatorial-with-goto/skywatcher-mount-eq3-pro-synscan-goto/p,11663

Here are some other mounts:

https://www.astroshop.eu/mountings-accessories/mountings/equatorial-with-goto/15_55_10_40?sort=1#pagination-top

I can get Eq5 listed there, but it is way too expensive. If I don't have to, I'd avoid spending that much on it. But if the difference between the first two mounts and eq5 is huge, I'd consider getting it. But as it is 1k, and with other equipment I need to get it with like battery pack, cables etc it would go way above my budget. I don't want to spend more than 1k. The less the better. I live in Germany, and I couldn't find anything in the used market so far. 

Which ones of the listed mounts would be better for DSO's astrophotography with room for upgrade? 

P. S. Portability would be nice as I don't have a car, and not everything is visible from my backyard due to it being surrounded by houses. 

Edited by Charming Potato
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Why not start with a Star Tracker ? Ioptron SkyGuider Pro or the Star Adventurer 2i ... these are both  in the region of £350 and if you already have a tripod you will be good to go . Its debatable which of the two trackers are best , personally i would lean towards the ioptron as it has a built in powercell . 

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4 minutes ago, Charming Potato said:

I have a generic tripod for DSLR camera. I am not sure if it can handle the weight these mounts. 

I have an early Star adventurer and it worked well with canon D70, 300mm lens on a Manfrotto tripod.

Edited by iapa
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Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it! 

Star adventurer sounds like a very good option. A question I have is, can it be run through a generic power bank? I have one that I use to charge my phone, I believe it is around 16000 Ah, will that work? What other accessories should I be looking for? Or does it work out of the box and I only need a tripod and a camera? 

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It has input for 12V power. The power banks for phones tend to be 5V.

I got the pro kit which included a wedge to all it to be used as an equatorial go to mount, there were other bits too. 

There’s generally a number of options on vendor sites, a basic mount only, up to one with everything e.g. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-star-adventurer/skywatcher-star-adventurer.html And https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-star-adventurer/skywatcher-star-adventurer-astronomy-bundle.html which just needs your camera and tripod. Can run with AA batteries.

Common comments are around the battery compartment which isn’t the most secure it seems.

Other manufacturers have their own bundles.

 

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6 minutes ago, iapa said:

It has input for 12V power. The power banks for phones tend to be 5V.

I got the pro kit which included a wedge to all it to be used as an equatorial go to mount, there were other bits too. 

There’s generally a number of options on vendor sites, a basic mount only, up to one with everything e.g. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-star-adventurer/skywatcher-star-adventurer.html And https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-star-adventurer/skywatcher-star-adventurer-astronomy-bundle.html which just needs your camera and tripod. Can run with AA batteries.

Common comments are around the battery compartment which isn’t the most secure it seems.

Other manufacturers have their own bundles.

 

Are you sure it is 12V and not 5V?

https://www.astroshop.de/fotomontierungen/skywatcher-montierung-star-adventurer-2i-wi-fi-photo-set/p,68887

According to this, it requires a 5V power input. Plesse correct me if I am wrong.

This is the power bank I have:

https://ankerbd.com/product/anker-powercore-select-20000mah-18w-fast-charge-power-bank/

It seems to provide 5V and 9V, and 12V at lower Ampere. Do you reckon this would be enough to power it up? 

Edited by Charming Potato
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Oh, and a quick check on a South American river sales sight shows £399 for Star Adventurer Pro which appears to be the version I have, very early.

so, chose reliable vendors

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23 minutes ago, Charming Potato said:

Are you sure it is 12V and not 5V?

https://www.astroshop.de/fotomontierungen/skywatcher-montierung-star-adventurer-2i-wi-fi-photo-set/p,68887

According to this, it requires a 5V power input. Plesse correct me if I am wrong.

This is the power bank I have:

https://ankerbd.com/product/anker-powercore-select-20000mah-18w-fast-charge-power-bank/

It seems to provide 5V and 9V, and 12V at lower Ampere. Do you reckon this would be enough to power it up? 

Sorry, you are correct - I was using that most unreliable source of data, my memory.

The thing with the power bank is that if it detects a low current draw, it may turnoff - it’s designed to charge a phone and as the phone batter charges the current draw drops. Low current implies charge battery.

I’ve found that Star Adventurer draws about 50mA - everything seems to show it will work with the power bank you have with a suitable USB cable.

Here’s one discussion about power the SA: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/759415-skywatcher-star-adventurer-owners-how-do-you-power-your-tracker/#:~:text=The Star Adventurer draws less,low%2C indicating a charged phone.

Here’s the manual for the SA: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjCtKi21NT_AhW2TUEAHVTYALIQFnoECBQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Finter-static.skywatcher.com%2Fdownloads%2Fstaradventurer2i_upgradekit_installation.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1NssKeIYJlt69ATpoQQ0IW&opi=89978449

Edited by iapa
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Just to offer an alternative, I would choose the eq3 with synscan. You need a tripod, it has one in the package, you can polar align the mount plus at a later date should you want to upgrade the mount can take upto 5Kg for a telescope plus bits and if your camera is compatible, you can add the asiair plus. Food for thought. All the best.

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All valid points herein. Based on the equipment you already have a star tracker makes the most sense.

BUT, speaking from experience (as a lot of other people here also do), I have been where you are. I started with a standard digital compact camera with built in lens and a photo tripod. Then the approximate upgrade tree over a few years goes like follows:

1. Star tracker,

2. Telescope grade mount + tripod (EQ3-2 and steel tripod),

3. Motor drives for the EQ3-2,

4. AZGTI,

5. Heavier duty EQ mount + separate tripod,

 

And so on. Now comments as follows:

1. I could now track the stars great, but polar alignment was annoying, finding and framing targets even more so - sold when I got 4.

2. Excellently sturdy, used it once or twice, similar issues to point 1 - sold when I got 4.

3. Never used it in the field - sold when I got 4, do you see a pattern here?

4. Transformed my visual and imaging, it's so good I still use it as my main imaging mount in full autoguided EQ mode (added expense), it is more portable than any other equivalent options out there.

5. Use usually as a second setup, or if it's windy as it's more stable. It is also more future proof than 4 as can carry more payload. 4 is quicker to setup however and easier to take off site as it all fits into one (heavy) bag.

 

So where does this leave you. I suggest you have a long hard think. If you have any astronomy meets locally, I'd suggest you go and see what other people are using, you'll get an immediate reality check with regard to size and costs of setups and speak to those directly whom use it and see their results. Another point to add is most of this is useless if you can't post process your images on computer, around 60-70pc of the total effort I'd say in getting a presentable image is after you've acquired the data, you could argue that if the data is poor so will be the end result, it's true but excellent data and little to no post processing will also present a poor result.

I've done a quick cost exercise online for all the equipment needed for an az-gti setup and the breakdown is appoximately as follows:

AZGTI, plus extension pillar (not needed for a DSLR setup but useful when using scopes), plus tripod (tripod may need replacing at some point) = £345,

EQ Dir cable (needed for the azgti to communicate with a computer controller) = £35,

William Optics EQ wedge = £239 (I have personally owned around 4 different EQ wedges and this is the best relatively affordable one no question),

ASI Air mini = £228,

120MM mini guidecam = £163,

30mm guidescope = £55,

Around a £100 provision for hardware, dovetails, cables etc = £100,

A portable 12v battery = £100,

A DIY counterweight solution = £15 for materials.

Total = £1280 so over budget.

 

Many of us will have bought used, most of mine is. The above you could likely save 30-40% if you're patient (and you need to be patient) and look at all sorts of sources.

An equivalent of the AZGTI is the newer Skywatcher GTI, so you won't need an additional equatorial wedge as in the above.

On AS's website based on the links you've presented the mount which sticks out to me around your budget is the HEQ5 at £1190, again over budget, not portable but it'll last you many years if you're in it for the long term (no extra stuff as detailed above but you can use the in built tracking). THIS ALSO NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED: whether you'll be doing it for years. This is my round about point going through all this, the other point being to do it well it's not cheap. If you KNOW you'll be doing this for years, consider your upgrade path carefully. Most of us will have bought and sold many times over to get to setups that we "think" are finalised, but in reality there's always the next "upgrade" in sight.

A star tracker will do for now, but I'm telling you it will be replaced long term. Another starter option for you may be the newer cheaper EAA scopes, Dwarflabs Dwarf 2 or ZWO's Seestar, minimal fuss and if you don't like them, relatively easy to sell on.

Edited by Elp
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Another point is, everyone has their own journey throughout this hobby. Try to seek out your path and follow it.

All we can do is speak from experience.

Edited by Elp
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25 minutes ago, Elp said:

All valid points herein. Based on the equipment you already have a star tracker makes the most sense.

BUT, speaking from experience (as a lot of other people here also do), I have been where you are. I started with a standard digital compact camera with built in lens and a photo tripod. Then the approximate upgrade tree over a few years goes like follows:

1. Star tracker,

2. Telescope grade mount + tripod (EQ3-2 and steel tripod),

3. Motor drives for the EQ3-2,

4. AZGTI,

5. Heavier duty EQ mount + separate tripod,

 

And so on. Now comments as follows:

1. I could now track the stars great, but polar alignment was annoying, finding and framing targets even more so - sold when I got 4.

2. Excellently sturdy, used it once or twice, similar issues to point 1 - sold when I got 4.

3. Never used it in the field - sold when I got 4, do you see a pattern here?

4. Transformed my visual and imaging, it's so good I still use it as my main imaging mount in full autoguided EQ mode (added expense), it is more portable than any other equivalent options out there.

5. Use usually as a second setup, or if it's windy as it's more stable. It is also more future proof than 4 as can carry more payload. 4 is quicker to setup however and easier to take off site as it all fits into one (heavy) bag.

 

So where does this leave you. I suggest you have a long hard think. If you have any astronomy meets locally, I'd suggest you go and see what other people are using, you'll get an immediate reality check with regard to size and costs of setups and speak to those directly whom use it and see their results. Another point to add is most of this is useless if you can't post process your images on computer, around 60-70pc of the total effort I'd say in getting a presentable image is after you've acquired the data, you could argue that if the data is poor so will be the end result, it's true but excellent data and little to no post processing will also present a poor result.

I've done a quick cost exercise online for all the equipment needed for an az-gti setup and the breakdown is appoximately as follows:

AZGTI, plus extension pillar (not needed for a DSLR setup but useful when using scopes), plus tripod (tripod may need replacing at some point) = £345,

EQ Dir cable (needed for the azgti to communicate with a computer controller) = £35,

William Optics EQ wedge = £239 (I have personally owned around 4 different EQ wedges and this is the best relatively affordable one no question),

ASI Air mini = £228,

120MM mini guidecam = £163,

30mm guidescope = £55,

Around a £100 provision for hardware, dovetails, cables etc = £100,

A portable 12v battery = £100,

A DIY counterweight solution = £15 for materials.

Total = £1280 so over budget.

 

Many of us will have bought used, most of mine is. The above you could likely save 30-40% if you're patient (and you need to be patient) and look at all sorts of sources.

An equivalent of the AZGTI is the newer Skywatcher GTI, so you won't need an additional equatorial wedge as in the above.

On AS's website based on the links you've presented the mount which sticks out to me around your budget is the HEQ5 at £1190, again over budget, not portable but it'll last you many years if you're in it for the long term (no extra stuff as detailed above but you can use the in built tracking). THIS ALSO NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED: whether you'll be doing it for years. This is my round about point going through all this, the other point being to do it well it's not cheap. If you KNOW you'll be doing this for years, consider your upgrade path carefully. Most of us will have bought and sold many times over to get to setups that we "think" are finalised, but in reality there's always the next "upgrade" in sight.

A star tracker will do for now, but I'm telling you it will be replaced long term. Another starter option for you may be the newer cheaper EAA scopes, Dwarflabs Dwarf 2 or ZWO's Seestar, minimal fuss and if you don't like them, relatively easy to sell on.

I recognise the path - 

1st Nixon 90D with adapters inc 2x Barlow to get focus on 130SLT Newtonian, vey flimsy mount, Alt-Ax, good for observing not so much for imaging

2nd AVX mount, better than above. Added 8” Newtonian - a bit heavy with accessories, and a bit of a sail in the wind. Dedicated imaging camera with filters

3rd CGEM-DX, much better. 

4th bargain deal on 10” f4 Quattro, required CGX-L mount

as you can see, it is evolutionary, and EXPENSIVE!!!!!!

OP, once you have your first setup, and one of these small GEM go to mounts on a solid tripod you are in a position to really dig into what you want to image.

for example, you can change the stock lens for something with wider, or narrowe field of view.

With my star adventurer I got some very nice images of M42, with a Canon 700 and 300mm lens. OK, my daughter push the buttons, so she has copyright :)

Anyway, bottom line is that for your €500 you can get a useful and portable setup.

If possible, look into carbon fibre tripods, they are very light and portable.

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Just to confirm, 

I am not advocating a particular manufacturer, just the usefulness - as I see it - of star tracker mounts.

If you are imaging, if not included in your choice, you will need a ‘wedge’ so the mount can better trac rotation of the stars over Time.

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1 hour ago, Elp said:

All valid points herein. Based on the equipment you already have a star tracker makes the most sense.

BUT, speaking from experience (as a lot of other people here also do), I have been where you are. I started with a standard digital compact camera with built in lens and a photo tripod. Then the approximate upgrade tree over a few years goes like follows:

1. Star tracker,

2. Telescope grade mount + tripod (EQ3-2 and steel tripod),

3. Motor drives for the EQ3-2,

4. AZGTI,

5. Heavier duty EQ mount + separate tripod,

 

And so on. Now comments as follows:

1. I could now track the stars great, but polar alignment was annoying, finding and framing targets even more so - sold when I got 4.

2. Excellently sturdy, used it once or twice, similar issues to point 1 - sold when I got 4.

3. Never used it in the field - sold when I got 4, do you see a pattern here?

4. Transformed my visual and imaging, it's so good I still use it as my main imaging mount in full autoguided EQ mode (added expense), it is more portable than any other equivalent options out there.

5. Use usually as a second setup, or if it's windy as it's more stable. It is also more future proof than 4 as can carry more payload. 4 is quicker to setup however and easier to take off site as it all fits into one (heavy) bag.

 

So where does this leave you. I suggest you have a long hard think. If you have any astronomy meets locally, I'd suggest you go and see what other people are using, you'll get an immediate reality check with regard to size and costs of setups and speak to those directly whom use it and see their results. Another point to add is most of this is useless if you can't post process your images on computer, around 60-70pc of the total effort I'd say in getting a presentable image is after you've acquired the data, you could argue that if the data is poor so will be the end result, it's true but excellent data and little to no post processing will also present a poor result.

I've done a quick cost exercise online for all the equipment needed for an az-gti setup and the breakdown is appoximately as follows:

AZGTI, plus extension pillar (not needed for a DSLR setup but useful when using scopes), plus tripod (tripod may need replacing at some point) = £345,

EQ Dir cable (needed for the azgti to communicate with a computer controller) = £35,

William Optics EQ wedge = £239 (I have personally owned around 4 different EQ wedges and this is the best relatively affordable one no question),

ASI Air mini = £228,

120MM mini guidecam = £163,

30mm guidescope = £55,

Around a £100 provision for hardware, dovetails, cables etc = £100,

A portable 12v battery = £100,

A DIY counterweight solution = £15 for materials.

Total = £1280 so over budget.

 

Many of us will have bought used, most of mine is. The above you could likely save 30-40% if you're patient (and you need to be patient) and look at all sorts of sources.

An equivalent of the AZGTI is the newer Skywatcher GTI, so you won't need an additional equatorial wedge as in the above.

On AS's website based on the links you've presented the mount which sticks out to me around your budget is the HEQ5 at £1190, again over budget, not portable but it'll last you many years if you're in it for the long term (no extra stuff as detailed above but you can use the in built tracking). THIS ALSO NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED: whether you'll be doing it for years. This is my round about point going through all this, the other point being to do it well it's not cheap. If you KNOW you'll be doing this for years, consider your upgrade path carefully. Most of us will have bought and sold many times over to get to setups that we "think" are finalised, but in reality there's always the next "upgrade" in sight.

A star tracker will do for now, but I'm telling you it will be replaced long term. Another starter option for you may be the newer cheaper EAA scopes, Dwarflabs Dwarf 2 or ZWO's Seestar, minimal fuss and if you don't like them, relatively easy to sell on.

Wow, some fantastic advice there and I really think very valid for so many who have gone on this same journey. Really good of you @Elp to give such a well thought out reply.
Also may not be exacty what you want to hear.
It is never easy to give advice of what to buy for AP on a tight budget because whilst many great imagers can get good images with what many others consider sub standard equipment (and that includes processing software) there is no doubt that it does make the job harder.
Also what it can tend to do (as Elp says) is that having a tight budget usually, over the years, causes you to spend more as you are forever striving to improve your equipment, but then non of us want to wait till we have the cash to buy the best.

But for what it is worth for me if I was to go back to when I started and I too had a tight budget and already had a DSLR then knowing what I do now (no great experience but I also think I am no novice anymore) I would still be tempted to go the Star Tracker ? Ioptron SkyGuider Pro or the Star Adventurer route for now as mentioned earlier. I think one of these is a big step foreward for you, will allow much longer exposures than you can manage currently, and for me would be a mount worth keeping for future use even after saving up and getting a heavier HEQ5 size mount that allows a decent payload for imaging. Personally I would still use a tracking mount for wideangle stuff maybe as a grab and go lightweight mount to take on travels or remote venues, maybe with dedicated astro camera and lense or small scope (when money allows).

But as said think carefully, it is not easy, and also not easy to send you in the right direction for you for any of us.
I do though wish you well on your journey and if AP is for you then you will get there (in time 🙂 )

Steve

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The journey does not need to start at the end a little tweak to great post above

Az-gti, pillar and suitable tripod and battery is good, can get using in az-gti to image just stick within field rotation. I keep it simple with what I'm doing with either onboard camera trigger synscan pro app or an intervolameter

Later can think about expanding such installing the skywatcher eq firmware (voids warranty) get a wedge, cable mentioned above (can still be used in altaz or eq)

Then later still consider asiair or pi or astro camera

What about adding guiding etc.

Though I've not used one but a star tracker would I think work out the box and the az-gti from reading posts isn't always out the box great at imaging it's primarily a visual mount. There are owners threads for both to see more.

Enjoy your research

 

Edited by happy-kat
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Thank you everyone for such great input. I do want to mention that I do not know what future has in store for me, but for now I am very much invested in this, and hopefully will be in the future as well. When I was a kid, I saw milky way patch/belt one summer night when I was visiting the country side, and it was etched into my memory until recently I was able to see it again, and that is when my interest in this hobby developed. It was a Bortle class 3 area, and I wanted to capture what I was seeing. I started getting more and more interested the deeper I went into research for that.

Anyway, so reading through all the great suggestions, this is what I have understood:

 

1. AZ-GTi mount is a good portable mount that can later be converted into an EQ mount by using some add on accessories. It is going to be better in long term compared to Star Adventurer 2i.

2. Star Adventurer GTi is an alternative of 1, except it is dual axis tracker, and goto capability out of the box, but does not have the expandability route that mount 1 has.

Did I understand that correctly? If not, please correct me. Otherwise I have the following questions if you guys don't mind:

 

1. Is AZ-GTi out of the box a better option than SA 2i? Like this one for example: https://www.astroshop.eu/alt-azimuth-with-goto/skywatcher-mount-az-gti-goto-wifi-with-tripod/p,55177

2. Since SA GTi is an EQ mount, do I need to have a computer and/or guide camera to track on the second axis? If yes then it means without a computer and/or guiding, it will only track on one axis and there is not much difference between this and 2i?

To be honest, AZ-GTi seems like a lot of work to make it function like the SA GTi. If that is the case then I'm more between SA GTi and 2i. Otherwise please correct me if I am wrong. 

Edited by Charming Potato
Added a little bit more details in the questions
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Both have a payload of 5Kg

bot drive on each axis

the Adventurer comes with a “wedge” to let it Track stars in RA And allows for a PC to provide guiding - however, with a decent polar alignment and balancing, the SA will let you get some fairly decent imaged, exposure time would be lens focal length/600.

I can’t think of anything else to help you at this stage.

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From the outset getting an azgti setup in EQ mode seems complicated because you have to source the parts separately but it really isn't, though I will note most people who do use it this way do it fully autoguided. The SAGTI has everything you need in one package so would seem easier, once you put them side by side the physical put together is pretty much the same. In your position I'd likely side with the latter as it's been designed to work in EQ from the get go and it's one purchase from one source, one box in the post.

Edited by Elp
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Thank you everyone for the great suggestions. At this point, I'm thinking I will go with the SA GTi. The kit comes with a tripod and pier extension. And I feel like this is a very good investment that will last me a while, and it is much easier to operate (from watching the YouTube videos at least) and offers a lot of features out of the box. There are a few things that I wanted to clarify if possible:

1. I use Nikon Z50, and apparently it is a very bad camera in terms of connectivity. It doesn't even feature external intervalometer (at least the wired ones), so there is no way to connect it to a computer or mount to increase the exposure times from 30 seconds. Is there a way I could connect it to a computer/mount to increase the exposure time? I have a RPi 4, and I was planning to connect everything with it using Astroberry, but this seems to be the only problem I am facing. There are no cables available for it as far as I can see.

2. SA GTi does not come with any sort of plate (I don't know what it is called) to attach the camera with, would it be possible if someone can help me understand what exactly do I need to buy for it? Something from here would be nice just to give me an idea: https://www.astroshop.eu/mountings-accessories/mounting-plates-and-rails/15_55_50?page=1

3. What other cables would I need other than a USB -> RJ12 to connect the mount to a computer?

4. Would I need to invest in a portable power bank other than the one I have (https://www.anker.com/eu-en/products/a1268?variant=41510216335550)?

I'm sorry for all these questions, but looking at all the options, I don't understand what to get and what not to get.

Edited by Charming Potato
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18 minutes ago, Charming Potato said:

Thank you everyone for the great suggestions. At this point, I'm thinking I will go with the SA GTi. The kit comes with a tripod and pier extension. And I feel like this is a very good investment that will last me a while, and it is much easier to operate (from watching the YouTube videos at least) and offers a lot of features out of the box. There are a few things that I wanted to clarify if possible:

1. I use Nikon Z50, and apparently it is a very bad camera in terms of connectivity. It doesn't even feature external intervalometer (at least the wired ones), so there is no way to connect it to a computer or mount to increase the exposure times from 30 seconds. Is there a way I could connect it to a computer/mount to increase the exposure time? I have a RPi 4, and I was planning to connect everything with it using Astroberry, but this seems to be the only problem I am facing. There are no cables available for it as far as I can see.

 

I see it has a USB port. 

With my Nikon D90 I used an application called BackYard Nikon, it’s windows only, but if the USB is there it may be possible - I don’t know Astroberry at all I’m sorry.

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32 minutes ago, Charming Potato said:

2. SA GTi does not come with any sort of plate (I don't know what it is called) to attach the camera with, would it be possible if someone can help me understand what exactly do I need to buy for it? Something from here would be nice just to give me an idea: https://www.astroshop.eu/mountings-accessories/mounting-plates-and-rails/15_55_50?page=1

On pg4 of the user manual it states:

Fits standard 3/8 and 1/4 inch tripod/quick release brackets

 

Edited by iapa
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6 minutes ago, iapa said:

I see it has a USB port. 

With my Nikon D90 I used an application called BackYard Nikon, it’s windows only, but if the USB is there it may be possible - I don’t know Astroberry at all I’m sorry.

I'm not sure if it transmits data over that port. I've tried looking into the manual but can't find any info. Searching through internet I couldn't find anyone who uses it with a cable. I guess I'll just have to figure out a way to connect it somehow through Bluetooth or Wifi.

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