Thinking about changing my 8” Celestron for a larger aperture Dob.

[Moonshed]

I definitely want to own a scope with a larger aperture than my 8” SCT. Had it for 30 years now and it’s time to move on.  Not being flush with money the only way I can do this is to sell some of my kit. So that would include my Celestron, Bresser Exos 2 EQ5 mount and my PoleMaster. EDIT plus ZWO ASI 224 MC colour camera.

Here is my problem. I have no idea how much I can expect to get for my kit, not seen any 1985 Celestrons for sale!  I intend to keep my cameras as I would like to be able to resume astrophotography should the mood take me.

* SEE EDIT   *I am thinking of getting a Dob with GOTO and tracking for imaging. It would have to be at least 10” to make a gain in aperture size. 
 
So firstly, which Dob would be best for me?  And secondly how much would I need to raise to get it? Could always wait a while in order to build up cash to make up any difference.

Any ideas?

*EDIT:  I have given the matter more thought, writing it down has crystallised my thoughts, and decided to give up imaging and return to observing only. This means I can add to my kit for sale my ZWO ASI 224 MC colour camera. Also means I do not need a tracking mount for the Dob.

To sum up items I will have to sell.

1) Celestron 8” SCT with electric focus, dew heater, Telrad RDF.  2)  Bresser Exos 2 EQ5 mount.   3) PoleMaster.  4) ZWO ASI 224 MC colour camera.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Moonshed

[rl]

Quote

I am thinking of getting a Dob with GOTO and tracking for imaging. It would have to be at least 10” to make a gain in aperture size. 

You would need something like a Poncet mount for imaging; not sure they are controllable enough for reliable results. Alt-AZ will limit your subs to low seconds.

I'm a big Dob fan but they really do visual best. If you're serious about imaging look at the mount first and then see what scope you can fit on the top!

[Moonshed]

33 minutes ago, rl said:

You would need something like a Poncet mount for imaging; not sure they are controllable enough for reliable results. Alt-AZ will limit your subs to low seconds.

I'm a big Dob fan but they really do visual best. If you're serious about imaging look at the mount first and then see what scope you can fit on the top!

I have been thinking about returning to just visual astronomy as I have only been doing imaging for the last 4 or 5 years and feel I have achieved what I set out to do in that field. This makes things a little easier as I can throw in my ZWO ASI 224 MC colour camera to raise a little more cash. It also means that I no longer need a tracking mount so that will reduce the cost as well.

I will edit my first post so as to clarify that point.

Thanks for your input, it has helped me decide about giving up imaging, far too stressful 😂.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Moonshed

[rl]

What is the biggest Dob you can pick up and move? Will you need a trolley? To be a worthwhile improvement on an 8" you're probably looking at a 12" Dob.

I can manage a 14" just about on a regular basis. 

[Ratlet]

I just got a Stellalyra 10" dob.  Great bit of kit and not really wanting for anything as it comes with some good extras (Raci finder, dual speed focuser, 30mm eyepiece that does the job and a 9mm plossl that I haven't tried yet).

I thought about going goto, but I'm absolutely delighted with the manual.  I use an inclinometer to help find things as I just need to dial in the altitude and then pan in the right area.  Great for clusters and bigger objects.

You can get nice push to encoders for it too which can WiFi to your phone and then show you on skysafari where it is pointing (not tried them).

Tracking would be extra, but you can get an equatorial platform built or build one yourself if you are vaguely techy.

It's sort of heavy, but mostly just awkward to move about by lifting.  I spent £75 on a sack barrow with a longer fold down toe plate.  I keep mine up the shed.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Ratlet
Added some info.

[Mr Spock]

Dobs are perfect for visual. If you don't want to nudge all the time you can add in an EQ platform. Best (my opinion only) at the moment are the StellaLyra Dobs https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes.html
As for size, I have a 12" and it's just manageable to move (for me) in two parts a short distance. I've used a 16" and that is a real beast - not one for the delicate amongst us 

[Moonshed]

3 minutes ago, rl said:

What is the biggest Dob you can pick up and move? Will you need a trolley? To be a worthwhile improvement on an 8" you're probably looking at a 12" Dob.

I can manage a 14" just about on a regular basis. 

Never tried tried to lift a Dob so I don’t know is the answer. My Celestron lives in a shed and I have to carry it out onto a concrete pad. Lifting is a bit of a challenge for me as I have back problems. I can manage to lift it out while on the mount by removing the counterweight and bar, and nothing on the visual back, but that is my limit. 
If the Dob is heavy I could always build a platform for it and fix some swivel wheels to it, then only a 1/2” strip of wood to get over to leave the shed and a 2” drop outside to the concrete pad. Could easily fit ramps to overcome those.

[Moonshed]

27 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

thought about going goto, but I'm absolutely delighted with the manual.  I use an inclinometer to help find things as I just need to dial in the altitude and then pan in the right area.  Great for clusters and bigger objects.

That sounds good for me. Read previously on one of the threads how handy those inclinometers are.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Moonshed

[Moonshed]

22 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

Dobs are perfect for visual. If you don't want to nudge all the time you can add in an EQ platform. Best (my opinion only) at the moment are the StellaLyra Dobs https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes.html
As for size, I have a 12" and it's just manageable to move (for me) in two parts a short distance. I've used a 16" and that is a real beast - not one for the delicate amongst us 

The StellaLyra 12” Dob looks amazing, I’ll take it! I couldn’t figure out what the individual weight for the scope and base are. I take it that you remove the OTA from the base to make it easier to carry when you say you carry it in two parts.

[bosun21]

1 hour ago, Moonshed said:

The StellaLyra 12” Dob looks amazing, I’ll take it! I couldn’t figure out what the individual weight for the scope and base are. I take it that you remove the OTA from the base to make it easier to carry when you say you carry it in two parts.

I move my 12” Stella Lyra dobsonian the same way as @Ratlet. My sack trolley with a fold down toe slips under the base (after fitting longer rubber feet) and is relatively easy enough to wheel in and out of the house fully assembled. I secure it to the frame of the trolley with elasticated cords. Pneumatic wheels are a big help in buffering bumps and vibrations. An EQ platform gives you good tracking which is great at high magnification. Good luck.

Edited March 23, 2023 by bosun21
Typo

[Moonshed]

A sack trolley with fold down toe @bosun21 and @Ratlet is the obvious choice for transporting a heavy Dob, makes a lot more sense than any DIY bodge job I could come up with, and as a bonus it stores very neatly in a small space. Worth every penny of £70.

That takes care of the lifting problem, all I need to do now is sell my kit and raise around £900 for the StellaLyra 12” Dob!

Edited March 23, 2023 by Moonshed

[Mr Spock]

2 hours ago, Moonshed said:

I take it that you remove the OTA from the base to make it easier to carry when you say you carry it in two parts.

Yes. I have it in the shed in two parts. The only thing to be aware when storing it like that is the collimation knobs protrude from the end of the tube. I added some rubber feet to mine so it can stand on its end. They only cost a couple of quid and there are three convenient holes for them to bolt to:

 

[Moonshed]

2 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

I have it in the shed in two parts. The only thing to be aware when storing it like that is the collimation knobs protrude from the end of the tube. I added some rubber feet to mine so it can stand on its end. They only cost a couple of quid and there are three convenient holes for them to bolt to:

Thanks for the info. I like your idea of the rubber feet, makes storage easy and with an elasticated cord around it fixed to the side of the shed it would prevent it being knocked over. My 5 year old granddaughter loves to play in grandpa’s Moonshed and she has no appreciation of the cost of the equipment stored in it. 😊

3 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

Dobs are perfect for visual. If you don't want to nudge all the time you can add in an EQ platform.

When you are looking through your 12” Dob at say Jupiter or Saturn with the most suitable mag. eyepiece, is the image moving at a rate in which nudges become a real pain or is it reasonably managed with no great distraction?

Thanks Michael

Keith

[cajen2]

At very high mags (especially on Saturn), it only takes a couple of seconds for the planet to move through the FOV, so nudging becomes a necessary skill. Luckily my StellaLyra (8") has a very smooth azimuth motion.

I'd second the idea of an EQ platform, if you can find one.

[Moonshed]

1 minute ago, cajen2 said:

At very high mags (especially on Saturn), it only takes a couple of seconds for the planet to move through the FOV, so nudging becomes a necessary skill. Luckily my StellaLyra (8") has a very smooth azimuth motion.

I'd second the idea of an EQ platform, if you can find one.

That’s what I was afraid of but I’m sure I would soon get the hang of it.  Regarding an EQ platform I have grown tired of the setting up hassle and that is one of the reasons I am looking at Dob’s, plonk it on down any flat spot and off you go. Knowing my way round the sky is a big help as I don’t really need a GOTO, all that stuff is part and parcel of imaging that I am saying goodbye to, been there done that 😀. 

[cajen2]

Once you've got the speed of tracking right, there's very little setting up to do: align north (fairly roughly is good enough) and level, and then you're away.

[cajen2]

You don't need the exactitude of alignment that you're used to when doing AP with an EQ mount. If the platform isn't exactly on north or it's slightly tilted, all that happens is that you might need a very slight nudge once in a while. Much easier than without one.

Edited March 24, 2023 by cajen2

[Moonshed]

10 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Once you've got the speed of tracking right, there's very little setting up to do: align north (fairly roughly is good enough) and level, and then you're away.

Okay, sounds good, do you have a link to where I could buy one?

[Moonshed]

38 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

You don't need the exactitude of alignment that you're used to when doing AP with an EQ mount. If the platform isn't exactly on north or it's slightly tilted, all that happens is that you might need a very slight nudge once in a while. Much easier than without one.

Found one on FLO 

Asterion Ecliptica Light Tracking Platform for Dobsonian Telescopes £269

Unfortunately it is another £269 to add to the original £880 for the StellaLyra 12” Dob plus £70 for the sack trolley to move it about, making the total now £1,219, more than I originally anticipated to be honest. Having said that the tracking platform can wait, I may buy it later or perhaps decide I can manage okay without one, time will tell. However, I do think I would get one as soon as I can afford it because I do want to enjoy the Moon and planets at high mags, and this platform suddenly becomes an essential piece of kit instead of a nice extra! 
Thanks for the info, very helpful.

 Cheers

Keith

[John]

I used to use my 12 inch dobsonian at 300x plus without a tracking equatorial platform. The EQ platforms are nice to have but not essential from my experience.

 

 

 

 

[Moonshed]

5 hours ago, John said:

I used to use my 12 inch dobsonian at 300x plus without a tracking equatorial platform. The EQ platforms are nice to have but not essential from my experience.

Thank you for that information, I have decided not to buy one straight away but wait and see if I need one. This is assuming that I manage to sell my kit and raise enough cash for the 12”Dob. 
I’m looking at sales in an attempt to judge how much to ask for my gear but it isn’t easy with so many different scopes and prices but I will sort something out.

[Shimrod]

55 minutes ago, Moonshed said:

Thank you for that information, I have decided not to buy one straight away but wait and see if I need one. This is assuming that I manage to sell my kit and raise enough cash for the 12”Dob. 
I’m looking at sales in an attempt to judge how much to ask for my gear but it isn’t easy with so many different scopes and prices but I will sort something out.

If you don't mind second hand there is a 12" dob listed in the 'for sale' section. You'd have to have a trip to Cornwall which may be a bit far, but the saving on new would pay for an overnight stay in a hotel! 

 

[Froeng]

One more thought to add. I agree a “large” newtonion would be a good upgrade to your C8.

However, please bear in mind you may need new (better corrected) eyepieces and possibly a coma corrector to make use of the likely faster f-ratio. This could add a significant cost element…

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Froeng

[Mr Spock]

20 minutes ago, Froeng said:

possibly a coma corrector to make use of the likely faster f-ratio.

Not really. The SL is f5 and my 30mm UFF shows no coma at all.

[Moonshed]

55 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

If you don't mind second hand there is a 12" dob listed in the 'for sale' section. You'd have to have a trip to Cornwall which may be a bit far, but the saving on new would pay for an overnight stay in a hotel! 

 

That is very tempting, thanks for drawing it to my attention, but I cannot travel that far, back problems limit me to an hour each way in a car. Even driving flat out I don’t think I can go from North Norfolk to Cornwall in an hour.😱 Not only that I first need to sell my gear to raise the cash and haven’t even started on that, apart from trying to figure out a fair price to ask.