Eyepiece upgrade?

[stormioV]

Hi, I have LX90 SCT 8inch. My Best Eyepieces are ES82 14mm & ES68
34mm. I also have a set of BST Starguiders 8mm through to 25mm and a set of Meade Plossl 6.4mm up to 40mm & a Binoviewer. I think I have most FL covered.  I was all set for ES82 11mm and ES68 24mm as my next upgrades until I found  Nirvana 10mm ES UWA and StellaLyra 80 20mm/9mm LER/UWA.  Nirvana seems to be half the price of ES in UK currently and StellaLyra just slightly more than ES at £195. Or will the Eyepieces I have suggested  only be a small upgrade and perhaps I may be better served continuing with eyepiece pairs for binoviewer . I prefer to buy new and £200 is most I will pay for an eyepiece. Thank you.

[Elp]

If you're going into £200 per piece territory the Baader Morpheus would be worth looking at. You seem to have all bases covered already though?

[Louis D]

Ask yourself where do you find yourself lacking in focal length options?  Also ask yourself where you'd like a wider apparent (and true) field of view at a particular focal length.

You're already pretty well covered for monoviewing.  I'm not sure what eyepiece pairs and GPC/OCA/Barlow elements you're using with your binoviewer.

[stormioV]

I  have Starguider/Arcturus Binoviewer and use pairs of 8mm, 18mms & 25mm BST Statguiders. 18mm are my favourite. I also have the x 1.85 & x3  Barlow that were included in set. I'm not against getting another 12 & 15. Would orthos be a better way to go for BV?

[Louis D]

17 minutes ago, stormioV said:

I  have Starguider/Arcturus Binoviewer and use pairs of 8mm, 18mms & 25mm BST Statguiders. 18mm are my favourite. I also have the x 1.85 & x3  Barlow that were included in set. I'm not against getting another 12 & 15. Would orthos be a better way to go for BV?

Lightweight zooms are very handy I've found to avoid swapping two eyepieces while making sure neither is tipped in the holders.  It makes for a more relaxing viewing experience.

[stormioV]

Thanks, I do have x2 Starguider zooms 8-24mm.  Optical difference is night and day. Much prefer using fixed fl ep's. Maybe my zooms aren't very good. I hardly ever use. I actually forgot about them. 

[Louis D]

Give them a try.  What's the harm?  Worst case you confirm your impression of them.

[stormioV]

My fixed fl Starguiders  in Binoviewer are far better than my zooms. It is a much more enjoyable experience. The view is much brighter and sharper.  If this is the best I can achieve I will not be dissapointed. So maybe double up on 12& or 15mm . They do seem to work well for me with my set up. Would having pairs of 8,12,15,18&25 be a good way to go or would that be overkill? 

[Ricochet]

Looking at your Starguider pairs I think there is a gap for a pair of 12mm Starguiders as 8-12-18 is a logical progression. Generally, I think the 15 is too close to 12 and 18 so unnecessary, but as you've already got one you are better placed to know your usage. With regards to orthos, yes they should be sharper and better coated than the Starguiders, but the field of view is narrower and they are not so comfortable to look through for extended periods. At f10 the Baader zoom will be well corrected and as good as the fixed focal length Starguiders (slightly better coatings though I think) but significantly better than the awful Starguider zooms. It does depend on what you use the binoviewers for though. I tend to use my binoviewers almost exclusively for lunar/planetary and individual eyepieces for DSOs so if you're looking for DSO upgrades then another binoviewer eyepiece might not make sense. For DSOs I would be thinking in terms of exit pupil (maybe also magnification) and for lunar/planetary exit pupil and magnification due to atmospheric limits. 

For DSOs I think you want your "main" eyepiece to be in the 2-2.5mm exit pupil range and then step up in a minimum of ~1.4X (root 2) steps or 2X if you miss a step so considering your 14mm ES82 and 34mm ES34 then yes, you are missing something in the 20-25 range and the 11mm would also make a nice maximum magnification DSO eyepiece before diffraction rings become detrimentally intrusive (to my eye at least). If you prefer the 82° field over the 68° one then the 20mm Stellalyra UWA  would be a good choice. If reviews had been a bit more forthcoming when they first appeared under the Orion brand I would probably have bought one myself.

If you're looking at eyepiece pairs for planetary and are not using any barlow/gpc to reach focus then your 8mm pair are giving somewhere around 290X and are probably above UK atmospheric limits most nights while your 18mm pairs are nearer 130X and so a bit low for planetary (moving the primary to accommodate the BV light path changes the focal length, a quick google suggests an increase of 3.1mm for every 1mm of movement so adding a binoviewer with a light path of 110mm increases the focal length to ~2340mm). Going with the earlier idea of a 12mm pair gives 195X which could also be above atmospheric limits some nights so in this case the additional 15mm pair at 156x might also make sense, and you might even want to find something between the two. Zooms would solve the issue of swapping eyepieces but if you're mostly using the 12-16mm section of the zoom then for the Baader zoom you're limited to 52-54° so take that into account.

[stormioV]

Thank you for all your advice, it is really welcome.

I do like the idea of  StellaLyra 80 20mm . As my FL gap seems to be in 20-25mm for wider views, would Antares x1.6 Barlow be a worthwhile route? This would alter my 34mm to 21.25. This 34mm is my only 2inch ep. 

Yes, I do enjoy using Binoviewer on Moon and planets, I agree a 12mm or 15mm may be better for this. I have both BST Starguider 12mm&15mm (1of each) & Meade 4000 SP 12.4mm & 15mm (1 of each) Would my Meade Plossl perform any better in BV?  or as I know my Starguiders work well for me in BV , should I stick to them. I do enjoy using my Plossl and they perform great as a single ep. I think at the moment Plossl is slightly cheaper.

I don't always use BV when observing moon/planets, sometimes for quickness a few high power eps. I have had great success on different occasions with all my Plossl and Starguiders. 6.4mm, 8mm, 9.7mm, 12mms 12.4mm.  Without using a Barlow I could maybe have a gap at 7mm & 9mm. I was considering Orthos , but I think comfort is a big factor. Would a 7mm/9mm Celestron X-Cel  LX be a good choice for this?  If the X-Cel LX was a good choice maybe the could fill in at 12mm for BV?

 

 

[Ricochet]

2 hours ago, stormioV said:

would Antares x1.6 Barlow be a worthwhile route?

I can't comment on that particular barlow, but in general a 2" barlow and 2" eyepiece tends to be a heavy combination so I would compare the weight of the combination against the single eyepiece option. Using a barlow will also extend the eye relief so you may have to hover above the eyepiece when barlowed. 
 

2 hours ago, stormioV said:

Would my Meade Plossl perform any better in BV?

The eye relief is shorter, the eye cup not as comfortable and the field is smaller (50° vs 60°) but correction should be good in both. Where the plössl may have an advantage is if it has better coatings with less scatter and internal reflections. I will have to leave this to you to test as I have not used the Meade plössl. 
 

2 hours ago, stormioV said:

Would a 7mm/9mm Celestron X-Cel  LX be a good choice for this?  If the X-Cel LX was a good choice maybe the could fill in at 12mm for BV?

I used to have both a 7mm celestron x-cel lx and 8 mm BST starguider and thought that the x-cell Lx was the sharper eyepiece. However, it is rumoured that the Meade hd-60 is the same eyepiece and in that line it was badged as a 6.5mm eyepiece so it may not be quite the gap filler that it first appears. The 12mm is apparently not quite so sharp so I cannot say whether the x-cel lx or BST starguider is the better eyepiece. As you already have one 12mm starguider I would be inclined to go for the cheaper option and buy one more. 

[Louis D]

On 11/02/2023 at 06:43, stormioV said:

I do like the idea of  StellaLyra 80 20mm . As my FL gap seems to be in 20-25mm for wider views, would Antares x1.6 Barlow be a worthwhile route? This would alter my 34mm to 21.25. This 34mm is my only 2inch ep. 

Long focal length eyepieces, especially 2" ones, don't do well in traditional Barlows.  The outer field will have a hard cutoff rather than soft vignetting due to the diverging outers rays caused by the Barlow not being captured at all by the eyepiece field lens.  This is why Tele Vue introduced the Panoptic Barlow Interface (PBI) for its 2" Big Barlow years ago.  It reconverges the light rays as in a telecentric magnifier like a TV Powermate.  As such, there is no vignetting or hard cutoff around the edges.

I use a PBI in a GSO ED 2x 2" Barlow as a poor man's 2" 2x Powermate because the GSO has nearly the same focal length as the TV Big Barlow.  However, you're getting a mighty long stack sticking out of your focuser.  This isn't much of a problem in a Dob with a sturdy focuser, but it would be a nightmare in an alt-az mounted small refractor to keep balanced.

[stormioV]

Thank you, I don't think I will bother with 2 inch Barlow lens. It would be a heavy combination. Probably best getting an eyepiece instesd. I'm more leaning towards StellaLyra 80 20mm. 

At the higher end I've been looking at Celestron X-Cel LX 7mm (which could be closer to 6.5mm) or X-Cel LX 9mm. Would Luminos 7mm/10mm be a better choice here or will it be wasted. This will be used on occasions I don't BV.  I will eventually double up at 12/15mm for BV.

[bingevader]

The 7mm Nirvana is rather good in my 8" 'scope.

[Louis D]

I would get the Nirvana-ES UWA-82º 7mm and 10mm instead of the Luminos 7mm and 10mm.  Performance-wise, they're very similar, but the Nirvana eyepieces are much less expensive.

[stormioV]

Thanks again for your replies. Your time  really is appreciated.

Would X-Cel and Luminos be same optically out to 60 ?

Im liking Nirvana 7/10mm, only negative, I think I would prefer twist up the cups, but that's not a deal breaker if it is optically superior. The price on these do seem good.

Another I'm  considering is Vixen SLV 9/10mm

[cajen2]

You may be interested in my first light report on the SL 20mil when it was first released. Several months later, I love it more than ever!

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/392135-stellalyra-80°-20mm-2-eyepiece-first-light-report/

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by cajen2

[Guest]

On 13/02/2023 at 09:48, stormioV said:

Thank you, I don't think I will bother with 2 inch Barlow lens. It would be a heavy combination. Probably best getting an eyepiece instesd. I'm more leaning towards StellaLyra 80 20mm. 

At the higher end I've been looking at Celestron X-Cel LX 7mm (which could be closer to 6.5mm) or X-Cel LX 9mm. Would Luminos 7mm/10mm be a better choice here or will it be wasted. This will be used on occasions I don't BV.  I will eventually double up at 12/15mm for BV.

The 20mm SL is a solid eyepiece.  I have the Orion branded version and it may just be my favorite eyepiece. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, cajen2 said:

You may be interested in my first light report on the SL 20mil when it was first released. Several months later, I love it more than ever!

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/392135-stellalyra-80°-20mm-2-eyepiece-first-light-report/

 

 

I can second everything that he says about this eyepiece. 

[stormioV]

Thank you, StellaLyra 20mm seems to be way forward for me for Widefield.

At higher power end it seems a little more difficult.

Based on my preference for twist-up style eye cups, I think it's between Celestron X-Cel 7(6.5mm)/9mm or Vixen SLV 6/9/10mm.  There isn't any BST Starguider at those FL so I would not  be unneccesarily doubling up. As this is for occasions when I don't use BVs is there a clear best in range amongst these that I should lean towards. Will Vixen SLV work well in my SCT. I understand they are narrower FOV , but if this view is sharper/clearer to me it will be worth it.Are Vixen SLVs worth the extra over X-Cel/Starguider?

 

[Don Pensack]

You might also try the BST Planetary eyepieces (they are identified by a 58° rating).

They are sold under at least 8 brand names.

And they all have roll-up eyecups.

And they come in 6mm, 7mm, 9mm sizes.

Here is one of those brands:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-eyepieces/skywatcher-uwa-planetary-eyepieces.html

Edited February 17, 2023 by Don Pensack

[Louis D]

33 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

You might also try the BST Planetary eyepieces (they are identified by a 58° rating).

They are sold under at least 8 brand names.

And they all have roll-up eyecups.

And they come in 6mm, 7mm, 9mm sizes.

Here is one of those brands:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-eyepieces/skywatcher-uwa-planetary-eyepieces.html

I was going to suggest that as well.  However, FLO is sold out of them right now.

I bought the 2.5mm version direct from China for about $35 shipped a few months back.  It is quite good, especially when you figure in the cost.

Check on ebay UK for sellers that have the focal lengths you want in stock.  I'd stick with the ones with the shiny metal bands on the twist up cup.  That's the version I have.  The Skywatcher version seems to come from another factory.

Here's a write-up of four versions of the 4mm focal length Planetary 58 eyepiece:

 

[stormioV]

Thanks, I've read the links on TMB clone /BST Planetry and a few other reviews/comparisons, I don't think I want that type.

I really think it's going to be Vixen SLV 9mm/10mm. If/when I get the view I'm hoping for I may then add 6mm/5mm for those nights when useable. Do any SCT users use these.

Celestron X-Cel 9mm/7mm not completely ruled out. I think Vixen SLV will give me most improvement?

Could  a Tele Vue Plossl  11mms give me much more improvement?

The cheapest option is getting another of each 12/15mm Starguider and adding 5mm?

I could also do same with my Meade super plossl but I think that could be more challenging to match a pair as there are several series/additions to these, plus I'm leaning towards twist up eye cups.

[Louis D]

I have had the original Vixen LV 9mm for 25 years.  It is sharp edge to edge, but it views a bit dark for its focal length and views rather Plossl-like at 50° AFOV.  Some folks have attributed this darkening to its use of Lanthanum glass.  It is very easy to hold the view even with eyeglasses.  However, I've retired it in favor a 9mm Morpheus and 10mm Delos.  I much prefer their wider apparent field of views and "brighter" views.  Both are easily as sharp if not sharper than the Vixen LV.

The Meade HD-60 9mm is also an excellent eyepiece just a step behind the 9mm Morpheus and significantly wider in AFOV (measured at 62° by me) than the LV (measured at 48° by me).  If you're using a tracking mount, the difference may not matter all that much to you.

[Don Pensack]

On 17/02/2023 at 07:24, Louis D said:

I was going to suggest that as well.  However, FLO is sold out of them right now.

I bought the 2.5mm version direct from China for about $35 shipped a few months back.  It is quite good, especially when you figure in the cost.

Check on ebay UK for sellers that have the focal lengths you want in stock.  I'd stick with the ones with the shiny metal bands on the twist up cup.  That's the version I have.  The Skywatcher version seems to come from another factory.

Here's a write-up of four versions of the 4mm focal length Planetary 58 eyepiece:

 

Rother Valley Optics may have them.

All the above are made by Barsta.

I have not researched whether there are coatings or internal baffle differences between them.

I also note there have been running changes on lower baffles and retaining rings over time.