I FINALLY got DSS to stack my subs!!

[wesdon1]

Hi all. Just a quick update. I have struggled endlessly trying to get Deep Sky Stacker processing software to work for me ( I was very computer illiterate, but I'm getting better every day and now have a grasp of most things! ) and tbh I almost quit astrophotography on a few occasions when I was, embarrassingly, literally in tears because I just could not understand what I was doing wrong! But I persevered, and my goodness I'm sooo glad I did!! I FINALLY got DSS to successfully stack my 25'ish Lights, and 10 Darks, earlier today and I was almost in tears again, but this time with happiness!! LOL ( or should that be tears of relief!? LOL ). 

So my advice to anyone new, who's really really struggling, please please don't give up! I have found that oftentimes when we think we're NEVER going to get anywhere, our next big leap of success is usually waiting 'round that particular corner of your astrophotography journey! The satisfaction and happiness one feels when one gets past those seemingly insurmountable barriers is incredible and well worth the effort! 

To the pros on here, please don't laugh! This pic may be awful in comparison to yours, but it's the results of a LOT of effort on my part, and represents a massive leap forward for me personally! 

Thank You again to all who've advised and encouraged me to get where I am...I am eternally grateful! 

Wes.

 

23 x 10sec Lights. 10 x 10sec darks. No Bias, Flats or Dark Flats. Canon DSLR T1i "unmodified". Canon 18-55mm lens, set at 35mm. Stationary Tripod, untracked Sub-Exposures. Constellation Cassiopeia and Andromeda, predominantly. ( See if you can spot Andromeda Galaxy just starting to come through at top middle of image!? If I'd have acquired much much more total integration, then Andromeda would have come through really nicely, I feel. ) This image has not had any post stacking processing, only stacked in DSS then stretched and manipulated Saturation, Luminance and RGB levels in DSS then saved the image as is. I will start learning to use post processing software like GIMP, Photoshop etc in due time.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by wesdon1
having to convert file from Tif to Jpg!

[carastro]

Well done for persevering.   I have been imaging for 12 years or so.  It always amazes me how some people seem to be able to cope with everything straight away.  I too had a number of struggles but with good help from other imagers l am now giving out advice myself.   
 

One such piece if advice is now you are on the right track please please learn to do flats.  Imo they are the most invaluable thing to learn as they prevent that bright middle and dark corners as shown in your image and enable decent post processing.  Plus they negate dust bunnies, also evident in your image.   Takes a little while to get to grips with them but are so worth it.  
 

Carole

Edited December 17, 2022 by carastro

[wesdon1]

1 hour ago, carastro said:

Well done for persevering.   I have been imaging for 12 years or so.  It always amazes me how some people seem to be able to cope with everything straight away.  I too had a number of struggles but with good help from other imagers l am now giving out advice myself.   
 

One such piece if advice is now you are on the right track please please learn to do flats.  Imo they are the most invaluable thing to learn as they prevent that bright middle and dark corners as shown in your image and enable decent post processing.  Plus they negate dust bunnies, also evident in your image.   Takes a little while to get to grips with them but are so worth it.  
 

Carole

Hi! You know I was wondering why my image had awful vignetting and a couple of those horrible dust bunnies!!? So thank you so so much for pointing that out to me and giving me some solutions! I am indeed planning to learn how to use Flats, Bias e4tc etc in coming weeks and months, as i now understand they really are important, as evidenced by my image! Thanks again! 

Wes.

[almcl]

Not just Cassiopea, you've caught the Andromeda nebula as well.

Well done.

Onwards and upwards! 

[wesdon1]

Just now, almcl said:

Not just Cassiopea, you've caught the Andromeda nebula as well.

Well done.

Onwards and upwards! 

Thanks! yes I noticed in my image at the top/middle, I had started to catch Andromeda Galaxy! I couldn't believe my luck! LOL. Next time I'm going to re-frame my image and see if I can get a wide field astro-image with Andromeda Galaxy much more pronounced and centre stage, so to speak! Thanks again for looking at and commenting on my image, it really helps me! 

Wes.

[imakebeer]

@wesdon1 I can't see your image - my phone doesn't seem to like tifs ☹️ If you save it off as a jpeg and attach it here then it should be viewable in the browser, I think that's what most folks do.

Nevertheless, well done for persevering - I'm really new to this, like only a few weeks new (which if you factor in cloudy weather means only a few days off actual experience).

Although I've now managed to get a tracking mount and scope, just a few weeks ago I was doing similar to you with a DSLR on a fixed tripod - I agree, you can achieve a lot just with this kit and I looked seriously at just a simple small tracking mount for my DSLR.

Two tips I can share from newbie to another:

1. Ok, you seem to have cracked DSS now. But as a beginner I've found Sequator way more accessible. I don't doubt that other tools like DSS and Siril are ultimately better, but as a beginner sometimes you just want to make a bit of progress quickly to make your efforts feel worthwhile as you learn the harder tools.

2. For GIMP processing I can recommend this tutorial on YouTube. I'm sure there's a lot more you can do, bit at the moment these basic steps are serving me well 👍

https://youtu.be/Tl4Ie92MuTs

 

[Malpi12]

5 hours ago, wesdon1 said:

struggled endlessly trying to get Deep Sky Stacker processing software to work for me

software like GIMP,

Well done, nice one !
Congratulations on getting there in the end We've all been there, pulling hair out and muttering expletives over software. Took me ages to get DSS and Gimp sorted.

Always good to get an unexpected bonus in another part of the frame, I discovered Andromeda in a similar way, using my Canon 60D with vintage prime lenses on fixed tripod.

Thanks for showing and as  Carastro says, flats are good
However, dont worry, all is not lost for this one, you can construct an artificial flat with Gimp. I hope you dont mind but I have taken the liberty of a quick play with it just to 'whet you appetite' to get Gimp installed  

Using a thing in "Filters"  called a "Gaussian blur" make an extra layer  and subtract it from the base image. (edit later :  I can expand details if/when you get into gimp !)

There are always edge effects to be cropped out but in this case we would lose Andromeda so I have left them in ! 
The experts could do a lot with it.
 

 

The flat

Edited December 17, 2022 by Malpi12

[wesdon1]

10 minutes ago, Malpi12 said:

Well done, nice one !
Congratulations on getting there in the end We've all been there, pulling hair out and muttering expletives over software. Took me ages to get DSS and Gimp sorted.

Always good to get an unexpected bonus in another part of the frame, I discovered Andromeda in a similar way, using my Canon 60D with vintage prime lenses on fixed tripod.

Thanks for showing and as  Carastro says, flats are good
However, dont worry, all is not lost for this one, you can construct an artificial flat with Gimp. I hope you dont mind but I have taken the liberty of a quick play with it just to 'whet you appetite' to get Gimp installed  

Using a thing in "Filters"  called a "Gaussian blur" make an extra layer  and subtract it from the base image. (edit later :  I can expand details if/when you get into gimp !)

There are always edge effects to be cropped out but in this case we would lose Andromeda so I have left them in ! 
The experts could do a lot with it.
 

 

The flat

Hi malpri12! My goodness it's so nice to read your comments about your similar experiences as me, and also you catching Andromeda too! I cannot stress strongly enough how much it helps when kind people like yourself and indeed many other kind people comment and give advice! In regards to you doing a bit of processing of my image, that's absolutely awesome! Thanks! Your processing of my image looks amazing, so I can't wait to learn how to use it for my current and future images! I do know of Gimp, and I actually downloaded it to start learning how to use it! I have saved the raw files of my image because I knew that I could improve on the/processing later on when I have learned how to use processing software. Obviously I am literally at the very beginning of learning how to use processing software, so your advice and suggestions are very much welcome and massively appreciated! Thanks so much! 

 

[Malpi12]

 

Andromeda always steals the lime-light don't you think ? 😀  So here, for a fun extra, you also have got :-
M 52,  Cassiopea Salt & Pepper Cluster, and
NGC 7789,  Caroline's Rose Cluster !

1 hour ago, wesdon1 said:

I have saved the raw files of my image

Very wise ! and I also keep the DSS autosave.tif and do all processing on it in Gimp.

[Malpi12]

4 hours ago, imakebeer said:

Sequator ,,,and Siril

I agree Sequator is easy to get going, but (when I used it some time ago, things may have changed) it was not obvious at first that it was rejecting -and not giving a reason why- a lot of my subs. but DSS took them happily.
Siril has defeated me thus far ! probably because of not putting in enough effort since DSS is doing ok

PS I make beer as well
 

[wesdon1]

11 hours ago, Malpi12 said:

I agree Sequator is easy to get going, but (when I used it some time ago, things may have changed) it was not obvious at first that it was rejecting -and not giving a reason why- a lot of my subs. but DSS took them happily.
Siril has defeated me thus far ! probably because of not putting in enough effort since DSS is doing ok

PS I make beer as well
 

Hi again Malpi12! Thank You so much for showing me the other parts of my image I hadn't even known about! You definetly know your way around the night sky! I am going to re-process my data in  various software like Gimp, Siril etc etc and see how I get on. I will update the post with my works! Thanks again malpi12! 

[wesdon1]

16 hours ago, imakebeer said:

@wesdon1 I can't see your image - my phone doesn't seem to like tifs ☹️ If you save it off as a jpeg and attach it here then it should be viewable in the browser, I think that's what most folks do.

Nevertheless, well done for persevering - I'm really new to this, like only a few weeks new (which if you factor in cloudy weather means only a few days off actual experience).

Although I've now managed to get a tracking mount and scope, just a few weeks ago I was doing similar to you with a DSLR on a fixed tripod - I agree, you can achieve a lot just with this kit and I looked seriously at just a simple small tracking mount for my DSLR.

Two tips I can share from newbie to another:

1. Ok, you seem to have cracked DSS now. But as a beginner I've found Sequator way more accessible. I don't doubt that other tools like DSS and Siril are ultimately better, but as a beginner sometimes you just want to make a bit of progress quickly to make your efforts feel worthwhile as you learn the harder tools.

2. For GIMP processing I can recommend this tutorial on YouTube. I'm sure there's a lot more you can do, bit at the moment these basic steps are serving me well 👍

https://youtu.be/Tl4Ie92MuTs

 

Hi imakebeer! Thanks for the advice my friend! I will I will try to convert the Tif to jpeg file and re-submit it so you and others can more easily access/view it! 

It's nice to hear from fellow newbies, we are all learning fast and struggling hard at times, so it's such a great help having these places to share experiences and help one another! 

I will also try my hand at sequator thanks! I am currently dipping my toes into most of the software available, and trying to find what best suits my skill levels and experiences. No doubt in a couple of years I'll have started sticking to a particular workflow that I find best! ( Hopefully! LOL ).

I shall watch the YouTube vid about Gimp thanks! That is coincidentally the first big processing software I downloaded last night! 

Clear Skies! 

Wes.

 

[wesdon1]

12 hours ago, Malpi12 said:

 

Andromeda always steals the lime-light don't you think ? 😀  So here, for a fun extra, you also have got :-
M 52,  Cassiopea Salt & Pepper Cluster, and
NGC 7789,  Caroline's Rose Cluster !

Very wise ! and I also keep the DSS autosave.tif and do all processing on it in Gimp.

 

16 hours ago, imakebeer said:

@wesdon1 I can't see your image - my phone doesn't seem to like tifs ☹️ If you save it off as a jpeg and attach it here then it should be viewable in the browser, I think that's what most folks do.

Nevertheless, well done for persevering - I'm really new to this, like only a few weeks new (which if you factor in cloudy weather means only a few days off actual experience).

Although I've now managed to get a tracking mount and scope, just a few weeks ago I was doing similar to you with a DSLR on a fixed tripod - I agree, you can achieve a lot just with this kit and I looked seriously at just a simple small tracking mount for my DSLR.

Two tips I can share from newbie to another:

1. Ok, you seem to have cracked DSS now. But as a beginner I've found Sequator way more accessible. I don't doubt that other tools like DSS and Siril are ultimately better, but as a beginner sometimes you just want to make a bit of progress quickly to make your efforts feel worthwhile as you learn the harder tools.

2. For GIMP processing I can recommend this tutorial on YouTube. I'm sure there's a lot more you can do, bit at the moment these basic steps are serving me well 👍

https://youtu.be/Tl4Ie92MuTs

 

Hi again imakebeer. I have converted the Tif to Jpg, so it appears that it now is available to view by members without the need to download the image!? Thanks again imakebeer! 

Clear Skies!

Wes

[Swillis]

On 18/12/2022 at 00:46, Malpi12 said:

PS I make beer as well

Me too!

 

Well done for persevering with DSS. It's a great feeling getting that first image. 

The stretching tools in DSS are very bad, it would be best to take the output straight into gimp. Siril has some excellent post-processing tools, but is a bit more a steep learning curve to get it to do anything! 

Welcome to the club, and looking forward to seeing the next one

Simon 

[imakebeer]

36 minutes ago, Swillis said:

The stretching tools in DSS are very bad, it would be best to take the output straight into gimp. Siril has some excellent post-processing tools, but is a bit more a steep learning curve to get it to do anything! 

From my newbie perspective, Siril isn't too bad - the tutorials are good and take you click by click through the steps, and stacking with a script is really easy.

For me the issues are (1) it's not always obvious what you're doing and more importantly why, and (2) I'm still not clear when to stop in Siril and switch to GIMP 🤔

@wesdon1 (BTW, type an @ symbol followed by the user's name and you can tag them so they get a notification 👍)... Anyway... I posted some of my initial attempts here - you can skip to just the first and penultimate posts...

But that gives you some idea of what you can do with Andromeda M31 with just a DSLR and fixed tripod (I also did the Pleiades M45 here). Now I've had more practice with the post processing software I wonder if I could improve them even further now...

(I did actually try again the other night but messed focusing 😖)

I've difference here is I'm using an 18-300mm lens (maxxed out at 300mm). Not sure if you have this option? Even if not I think there's still a lot to be said for wider field stuff.

Keep it up 👍

[wesdon1]

3 hours ago, imakebeer said:

From my newbie perspective, Siril isn't too bad - the tutorials are good and take you click by click through the steps, and stacking with a script is really easy.

For me the issues are (1) it's not always obvious what you're doing and more importantly why, and (2) I'm still not clear when to stop in Siril and switch to GIMP 🤔

@wesdon1 (BTW, type an @ symbol followed by the user's name and you can tag them so they get a notification 👍)... Anyway... I posted some of my initial attempts here - you can skip to just the first and penultimate posts...

But that gives you some idea of what you can do with Andromeda M31 with just a DSLR and fixed tripod (I also did the Pleiades M45 here). Now I've had more practice with the post processing software I wonder if I could improve them even further now...

(I did actually try again the other night but messed focusing 😖)

I've difference here is I'm using an 18-300mm lens (maxxed out at 300mm). Not sure if you have this option? Even if not I think there's still a lot to be said for wider field stuff.

Keep it up 👍

 

Hi again @imakebeer ( hope I did that correctly ? Thanks for letting me know how to do this! I was actually wondering for ages how I do it! Thanks! )

Thanks so much again for advice! That script with siril thing sounds really really interesting because I would really appreciate something like that, where you follow a script/instructions from start to finish. ( assuming I have read you correctly ? ) 

Thanks mate, I will indeed have a good look through your works, and see how you progressed etc. It's always mega helpful when one has the opportunity to see others workflow/progress etc! 

Yes I actually have a 75-300mm telephoto lens, as well as my 18-55mm lens. One thing I would say, I remember a few weeks ago, I tried using my 300mm telephoto lens maxed out at 300mm, and I found that it made focusing on the stars very tricky, almost impossible, tbh!? Maybe if you/I tried using around 280mm'ish, then that might not tax the optics so much, and make focusing a bit easier ? Obviously I am mega inexperienced so please forgive me if I sound stupid!! LOL.

Aww thanks imakebeer! You too! 

Wes.

[wesdon1]

5 hours ago, Swillis said:

Me too!

 

Well done for persevering with DSS. It's a great feeling getting that first image. 

The stretching tools in DSS are very bad, it would be best to take the output straight into gimp. Siril has some excellent post-processing tools, but is a bit more a steep learning curve to get it to do anything! 

Welcome to the club, and looking forward to seeing the next one

Simon 

Aww thanks @Swillis !

I honestly almost quit astrophotography imaging a few times because I was literally in tears! I know, embarrassing! I'm an emotional guy! LOL.

I guess I just felt like it was just me, that I was simply too dumb to figure out how to use processing and stacking software!? Then I found out that many other folk had same problems as me, so that gave me some hope that I too could learn how to work them! 

Aww thanks again Simon! I am so excited to get back outside and image and process and get it on here for all to see! I absolutely love this hobby now!

Clear Skies my friend!

Wes.

[Swillis]

@wesdon1 if that's the canon 75-300mm lens, there is lots of chromatic aberration which is probably what is making focusing difficult. I started with that lens, but kept at a more modest 160mm ish FL (with a star tracker). If your doing untracked subs then a shorter FL would allow slightly longer exposures. I would recommend taping down the focus and zoom rings as they can slip easily on that lens. 

As I'm sure you are realising the people on here are very helpful. So no matter how silly your question feels, someone will probably help and it might even be useful for the next person who comes along with the same problem. 

[wesdon1]

@Swillis

yes it is indeed the canon 75-300mm lens. I didn't know about the CA with canon 300 lens, I will try upgrading to a better one when I have the money, thanks. 

yes that seems like a good idea thanks Simon, I could tape the focus so it stays there throughout my imaging. 

My goodness yes these forums etc are absolute life-saver for newbies like myself! 

Thanks again Simon! Clear Skies!

Wes

[imakebeer]

For my Nikkor 18-300mm I don't have any trouble focusing (except when I'm a bonehead and don't double check it is still actually in focus 😖). that said, someone did suggest maybe backing off to 200mm which would allow me to open up the aperture one more stop and so let in more light. So in your case it's possible that by backing off to 160mm you could achieve the same thing, as well as helping with focus and CA.

[wesdon1]

On 19/12/2022 at 16:44, imakebeer said:

For my Nikkor 18-300mm I don't have any trouble focusing (except when I'm a bonehead and don't double check it is still actually in focus 😖). that said, someone did suggest maybe backing off to 200mm which would allow me to open up the aperture one more stop and so let in more light. So in your case it's possible that by backing off to 160mm you could achieve the same thing, as well as helping with focus and CA.

  @imakebeer Yes that makes sense because a shorter FL will allow more light in, plus obviously it'll mean longer exposures due to being less zoomed in, again allowing more light. That could improve signal to noise ratio also. 

[tomato]

Wonderful widefield untracked first image, so glad you persevered with DSS so you were able to post it on SGL.👍

+1 for taking and applying the other calibration frames, I was reluctant to use them when I started out, but they make another step change improvement to your imaging.

[wesdon1]

1 hour ago, tomato said:

Wonderful widefield untracked first image, so glad you persevered with DSS so you were able to post it on SGL.👍

+1 for taking and applying the other calibration frames, I was reluctant to use them when I started out, but they make another step change improvement to your imaging.

Thank You so much @tomato ! It was so hard at times but it really was worth the effort in the end! 

Yes thanks, I am learning just how much difference the Darks, Bias, Lights etc etc make to a final image. I managed to take my first ever proper Darks with the image above, and I've been practicing and learning how to do the other calibration frames. Just wish our terrible British weather would play ball!? LOL