Starter equipment advice

[Drazzic]

Hi all,

Wanting to get into the hobby and looking for some advice. Ultimately I'd like to shoot DSO's, but for now I'm thinking of making use of what I have and starting with the milky way.
I have a Fuji XT-1 mirrorless camera with 18-55mm lens. I'm looking at mounts and I'm wondering if a Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer 2i Wifi Pro Pack would be a good one to start with, or whether it's worth spending a little more for something like the Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer GTi Mount?

Any advice very welcome. 

[Elp]

The SA GTI will be better, and more future proof. I personally use an azgti in EQ mode as do many others.

[Drazzic]

8 minutes ago, Elp said:

The SA GTI will be better, and more future proof. I personally use an azgti in EQ mode as do many others.

Thanks for the reply, Elp. What is the azgti, I'm not familiar with that one?

[vlaiv]

23 minutes ago, Drazzic said:

Thanks for the reply, Elp. What is the azgti, I'm not familiar with that one?

That is alt-az mount that can be turned into equatorial mount for long exposure imaging.

It is this mount:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth-astronomy-mounts/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi-alt-az-mount-tripod.html

It has a lot of features - like wifi connection, ability to be controlled via computer and tracking in both axis.

EQ mode is rather simple conversion. You need to load special firmware (that lets you select if you want mount to be in EQ or AZ mode - so you don't loose alt-az capability), addition of wedge to be able to polar align and addition of counterweight shaft and counterweight.

You can either get dedicated wedge and CW bar - or you can DIY one for start like I did here:

(wedge is simple ball head and CW shaft is M10 thread with some washers acting as counterweights).

[Elp]

This:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi-alt-az-mount-tripod.html

Original design intent was as a goto alt az mount. With a firmware upgrade and plonking it onto an EQ wedge with a counterweight for balance it can be operated in EQ mode which is needed for long exposure astrophotography.

A lot of us use it, see this thread:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/387014-skywatcher-az-gti-mount-owners-thread/

[Adam J]

4 hours ago, Drazzic said:

Hi all,

Wanting to get into the hobby and looking for some advice. Ultimately I'd like to shoot DSO's, but for now I'm thinking of making use of what I have and starting with the milky way.
I have a Fuji XT-1 mirrorless camera with 18-55mm lens. I'm looking at mounts and I'm wondering if a Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer 2i Wifi Pro Pack would be a good one to start with, or whether it's worth spending a little more for something like the Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer GTi Mount?

Any advice very welcome. 

I think you will be waiting till next astro season if you wait for a SA GTI mount, they are ideal but just not available right now. 

[Drazzic]

11 hours ago, Adam J said:

I think you will be waiting till next astro season if you wait for a SA GTI mount, they are ideal but just not available right now. 

Thanks for the heads up.

How does the Skywatcher EQ3 Pro GOTO mount compare to the above mounts? It comes with a tripod for less than the GTI.

[vlaiv]

11 minutes ago, Drazzic said:

Thanks for the heads up.

How does the Skywatcher EQ3 Pro GOTO mount compare to the above mounts? It comes with a tripod for less than the GTI.

I think they are roughly in the same category as far as imaging performance goes.

I would not image on either with anything but the smallest scopes or just camera and lens (up to say 200mm).

AZ-Gti has advantage that is dual type mount - you can use it for quick grab n go observing sessions, with even long focal length scopes like maksutov for planets. It is also very compact and portable.

SA/SA2 is star tracker that is very portable. You can put it on photo tripod.

EQ3 is much more heavy / bulky, but it performs roughly the same as far imaging goes. For visual it will probably hold a bit larger scopes. I would put 6" F/6 newtonian on EQ3 for visual - but no way I would put it on AZ Gti.

AZ-Gti runs on AA batteries, but you'll need power supply for EQ3 or run it of 12V battery.

AZ-Gti probably guides a bit better - but I can't be 100% sure on that. This is based solely on their construction. I own AZ-Gti and have opened it to adjust it and clean it. It has spring loaded worm gears which help with backlash.

I haven't yet guided mine (although it sits ready for guided imaging - just waiting for me to come to my senses), so I can't really tell how good it will be, but I think that both mounts guide around 1.5-2" RMS?

SA/SA2 can only be guided in RA direction (which means that it can also be dithered only in RA direction).

Hope this helps

 

[Elp]

I had an eq3-2 with the two motor drives which may be a similar class to the eq3 pro. Seems sturdy enough but I never tested it for imaging. I ended up selling it as it wasn't being used, I also didn't like the inelegant solution of it having external motors and all the cabling and external battery pack.

The azgti was more like what I wanted but doesn't have the same payload capacity but works for my 6kg payload which is more than the recommended 5kg. I use a 12v power bank or sometimes a mains adaptor to power it as the battery method isn't reliable. Absolute best guiding I got at 400mm focal length was around 0.4-0.6 with an off axis guider, with my usual 205mm guidescope I get around 0.8-1.5, average I would say is around 1.2 during typical seeing. They do however vary between units, I've never felt the need to regrease or reseat the internals of mine.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Elp

[imakebeer]

14 hours ago, vlaiv said:

You can either get dedicated wedge and CW bar - or you can DIY one for start like I did here

Dude that is fantastic, loving your DIY CW bar! 😂🙌🤘💪👍

12 minutes ago, Drazzic said:

How does the Skywatcher EQ3 Pro GOTO mount compare to the above mounts? It comes with a tripod for less than the GTI.

@Drazzic I'm new to the forum, astronomy and astrophotography too. To be honest you've kinda saved me writing my own long rambling thread - I've currently got a very basic small refractor on an EQ1 mount and I'm pleased with the planetary images I've achieved so far, but I want to do more and better so I'm not too far off pulling the trigger on a much bigger scope with suitably heavyweight mount to match.

Cost isn't so much an issue for me, it's more my own common sense that's making me hesitate, i.e. is it really the best idea to take such a big jump yet and splurge straight away? What could I achieve by spending a bit less for the moment? It's about the law of diminishing returns and bang for buck. My guess is I can still achieve a big jump in performance without going all in just yet.

So I've been having a think about alternatives, not unlike you - I've already got a decent DSLR and zoom lens so what can I do with that? What about pairing it with the Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer GTi Mount, or the AZ GTi in EQ mode as suggested here? What about a more modest scope - better than what I have now but lighter than the 150mm Newtonian I'm considering.

Your question about the EQ3 Pro GOTO is interesting, I hadn't thought of that. To be honest I don't know the answer - I think the answer might be that the interface isn't so slick, i.e. you can't drive it from your phone straight out of the box but I will let someone more experienced and knowledgeable give a proper answer!

[vlaiv]

11 minutes ago, imakebeer said:

Dude that is fantastic, loving your DIY CW bar! 😂🙌🤘💪👍

Still use it, although I've upgraded counterweights and I've got myself 3d printer since (must have for any serious DIY astro amateur), so it now features several 3d printed bits

Those are x3 0.5Kg weights from Decathlon. I believe they were like 1 euro each or there about.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/cast-iron-weight-training-disc-weight-28mm/_/R-p-7278?mc=1042303&c=BLACK

3d printing helps with bore diameter and makes for nice hand adapters for nuts for easy height adjustment.

In any case - that is probably most cost effective upgrade on my equipment so far

 

[Adam J]

40 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I think they are roughly in the same category as far as imaging performance goes.

The Star adventurer GTI is way ahead of a Eq3 pro in my experience, I get 0.5RMS guided from mine on some nights and thats at almost the full stated 5kg load. I am guessing that figure must be quite pessimistic. you will not do that with a Eq3. I would say that pushing it at far as 7Kg with a 70-80mm class scope would not be a problem at all. 

Now if we mean the AZGTI then I would agree with you more but still think its much more user friendly than the EQ3 pro, at least once its converted for EQ. To step up from either you really need to be looking at the EQ5 pro or the EQM-35. 

Adam 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Adam J

[vlaiv]

44 minutes ago, Adam J said:

The Star adventurer GTI is way ahead of a Eq3 pro in my experience,

I haven't really payed much attention to that new SA GTI.

For some reason, I'm not really a fan of whole SA series, but this one seems to be much better in terms of what it can do than previous versions?

[imakebeer]

45 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I haven't really payed much attention to that new SA GTI.

For some reason, I'm not really a fan of whole SA series, but this one seems to be much better in terms of what it can do than previous versions?

I had a look the other day at the AstroBackyard reviews for the Star Adventurer 2i, and then the Star Adventurer GTi - he seemed to think the 2i was OK but had some flaws (ISTR it only tracks in RA) but the GTi pretty much addressed all of these points.

For me as a newbie the tantalizing thing is that there are AZ GTi bundles of mount + scope for quite a bit less than buying them separately (use the difference to buy the wedge!). It begs the question whether SW will release similar bundles based around the SA GTi 🙏🙏🙏

Sure, this setup is still quite limited in weight capacity and probably ultimately not as good as a ligger/better scope on an HEQ5/EQ6 GOTO but it's probably a good deal more grab & go-able and still a big step forward from my own current setup.

It's certainly something I'll consider...

[doublevodka]

Worth a look at these two videos

 

 

[Adam J]

2 hours ago, vlaiv said:

but this one seems to be much better in terms of what it can do than previous versions?

Oh its a huge difference in my opinion. It looks and performs like a mini HEQ5 pro. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Adam J

[900SL]

On 15/11/2022 at 15:40, imakebeer said:

I had a look the other day at the AstroBackyard reviews for the Star Adventurer 2i, and then the Star Adventurer GTi - he seemed to think the 2i was OK but had some flaws (ISTR it only tracks in RA) but the GTi pretty much addressed all of these points.

For me as a newbie the tantalizing thing is that there are AZ GTi bundles of mount + scope for quite a bit less than buying them separately (use the difference to buy the wedge!). It begs the question whether SW will release similar bundles based around the SA GTi 🙏🙏🙏

Sure, this setup is still quite limited in weight capacity and probably ultimately not as good as a ligger/better scope on an HEQ5/EQ6 GOTO but it's probably a good deal more grab & go-able and still a big step forward from my own current setup.

It's certainly something I'll consider...

Don't believe a word Trevor says. He's a YouTube influencer. 

I had a SWSA2. Poorly made junk. Its a lottery with SW as to what you get. 

If you want a tracker look at iOptron. Or save yourself nickel and diming your way up and get a HEQ5

[AstroMuni]

On 15/11/2022 at 11:40, vlaiv said:

must have for any serious DIY astro amateur

One to add to the list when folk ask what are essential items to get into this hobby, then 🙂

[vlaiv]

19 minutes ago, AstroMuni said:

One to add to the list when folk ask what are essential items to get into this hobby, then 🙂

Sure, but only for those that love DIY.

It really is not as expensive as people might think. I started with about 250e, and I did put in some more cash towards improvements - but for most things, stock machine would have been enough.

I remember times when regular 2d laser printer was more money.

[Stu1smartcookie]

3 hours ago, 900SL said:

Don't believe a word Trevor says. He's a YouTube influencer. 

Yeah , its a bit of a shame ... i really like the guys presentation and he seems genuine but he got involved in the Radian Raptor shenanigan where he maintained he designed the scope , when in reality it was a carbon copy of the Sharpstar 61 . For the record , i must have one of the better Star Adventurers as mine tracks and works perfectly . 

[Adam J]

3 hours ago, 900SL said:

Don't believe a word Trevor says. He's a YouTube influencer. 

I had a SWSA2. Poorly made junk. Its a lottery with SW as to what you get. 

If you want a tracker look at iOptron. Or save yourself nickel and diming your way up and get a HEQ5

Ok, I dont believe a word Trevor says either.  But you can believe me.  I have a SW AZEQ6 GTI and that is a good mount, I had a SW HEQ5 Pro and that was a good mount, I have a AZ GTI and thats a good mount (for the price) and I now have the SW SA GTI and its great too of all my mounts probably the best I have owned out the box without tuning. 

Adam 

 

[Elp]

I have two azgtis, one of which I bought used. Both are more than capable for fully autoguided setups in EQ mode. I also have an ioptron gem28, again another good mount. I think if you buy anything, there's always a risk of something not being quite right.

[Elp]

18 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Sure, but only for those that love DIY.

I'd second this, it should be part of any tinkerers toolkit. The times when things break or you need something which doesn't exist, just design and print it. It's also much cheaper than buying these ready made 3d printed solutions which people sell for an arm and a leg.

[AstroMuni]

21 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I remember times when regular 2d laser printer was more money.

True. I think at this rate we are now getting into the realms of 3d printer vs laser cutter, so needs a new thread 🙂

[vlaiv]

Just now, Elp said:

I'd second this, it should be part of any tinkerers toolkit. The times when things break or you need something which doesn't exist, just design and print it. It's also much cheaper than buying these ready made 3d printed solutions which people sell for an arm and a leg.

Indeed, not long a go, member of local astronomy forum asked me if I would print him some EOS clip in filter holders for 1.25" filters.

He purchased this one, but was not happy:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p14030_Wega-Clip-Filter-for-1-25--Filters-on-Canon-EOS-APS-C-Cameras.html

That is total of 70e per filter holder after shipping, customs fee, and tax

I printed him 4 of those and total cost was less than 2 euros in plastic and electricity