ASI 294 MC

[Iem1]

Afternoon folks,

I am just finishing the final touches to setting up my new...setup..which currently consists of the ASIair plus, 120MM mini guide scope and a WO Z73 72mm refractor.

Now that I have my mount/guiding ready (Just ordered an EQ Mod cable, haven't actually used it all yet!) I am looking at upgrading from my Canon 600D.

It's been a tough decision between the ASI 294 MC and a ASI 1600 MM bundle with the filter wheel. But I think I'm going to stick to OSC for now, lessen the steep learning curve I'm in for, though I'm changing my mind every day :D 

My question is, what else do I need to accompany the ASI 294 MC?

My optical train at the moment is just the WO Z73 (72mm aperture, 430mm FL) and a field flattner, currently used with a T - Ring adapter for the Canon.

Will my cureent field flattner be appropriate for the 294 camera? I have read I should get a UV/IR filter to reduce star bloat I think? Would I need a filter wheel to house this, or is it inserted directly into the optical train? 

I will take a look at spacing soon too, just trying to make sure I get all the bits and bobs and have theory sorted before I buy.

Thank you for any help/tips 

 

 

[saac]

Funny but I'm waiting on delivery of an IR cut filter as well!  Pending the type you have ordered (mounted or unmounted) then it should screw directly into your camera/extension tubes. Well at least that is what I'm looking to do, no need for a filter wheel for that. 

Jim 

[ONIKKINEN]

Are you aware of the reputation the 294MC has? I dont own one so its purely third party advice from my part but i have browsed forums enough to see the same kind of thread pop up consistently regarding weird gradient this, flats problem that, 294MC disappointnent and quirky and so on. You might not get the simplicity you are after.

If i were buying a camera today i would choose the 1600MM over the 294MC.

As for the filter question, yes you will need one as the camera has none of its own and with a refractor you really dont want to let in the extremes of UV and IR. 

[Astro Noodles]

I have a WO61 with field flattener and an ASI 294MC. The camera comes with the correct spacers to attach directly to the field flattener.

[Budgie1]

Your ASI294MC Pro should come with all the spacers you'll need for the standard 55mm back focus. There's an 11mm spacer which normally screws directly on to the front of the camera and there's also a 1.25" filter adaptor included which screws inside the 11mm spacer to take your UV/IR cut filter. This makes sure the 1.25" filter is as close to the sensor as possible to prevent any vignetting from the filter.

When choosing a UV/IR cut filter, I would advise going for a mid-priced one, rather than a cheaper one. There's no point spending £1k on a camera and putting a low quality filter right in front of it.

If you think you may go for a dual-band filter further down the line or you need to use LP filters, you can get a Filter Draw to replace the 21mm spacer in the image train. This means you don't have to unscrew the camera from the scope to change the filter. The only drawback is the filter draw takes 2" filters, instead of 1.25". So have a think about what you may want to do now, as it could save you having to replace your filters later.

The only other thing I'd advise with ASI294MC Pro is to make sure you have a good quality UBS3 cable. The supplied cables are okay, but some have had connection drop-out issues with them.

6 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Are you aware of the reputation the 294MC has? I dont own one so its purely third party advice from my part but i have browsed forums enough to see the same kind of thread pop up consistently regarding weird gradient this, flats problem that, 294MC disappointnent and quirky and so on. You might not get the simplicity you are after.

The gradients are caused by using a dual-band filter with unity gain (120). If you use a gain of 200 or above and offset of 30 then the flats work fine & calibrate this out.

The flat problems when using just the UV/IR cut filter are normally because the flats were too short in exposure length. Aim for something like 26,000 ADU with 1-1.5 sec exposure and they should be fine. I also found that Bias calibration frames left a remnant  of amp-glow, so I don't use them.

[Simon Pepper]

Hi

I actually sold my 294MC pro and got the 1600mm bundle and gosh I am glad I did. The difference is image quality is very noticeable. That being said though it is a learning curve and it sounds like you are fully aware of this. I would definitely not go back to OSC now though. With the 294 I paired it with lextreme and got some good results and you won’t be disappointed but I put money on you going mono one day! Just need to save the pennies for a 16bit MM now!

[Adam J]

1 hour ago, Iem1 said:

Afternoon folks,

I am just finishing the final touches to setting up my new...setup..which currently consists of the ASIair plus, 120MM mini guide scope and a WO Z73 72mm refractor.

Now that I have my mount/guiding ready (Just ordered an EQ Mod cable, haven't actually used it all yet!) I am looking at upgrading from my Canon 600D.

It's been a tough decision between the ASI 294 MC and a ASI 1600 MM bundle with the filter wheel. But I think I'm going to stick to OSC for now, lessen the steep learning curve I'm in for, though I'm changing my mind every day :D 

My question is, what else do I need to accompany the ASI 294 MC?

My optical train at the moment is just the WO Z73 (72mm aperture, 430mm FL) and a field flattner, currently used with a T - Ring adapter for the Canon.

Will my cureent field flattner be appropriate for the 294 camera? I have read I should get a UV/IR filter to reduce star bloat I think? Would I need a filter wheel to house this, or is it inserted directly into the optical train? 

I will take a look at spacing soon too, just trying to make sure I get all the bits and bobs and have theory sorted before I buy.

Thank you for any help/tips 

 

 

The 294mc is not one I would suggest for a first astro camera at the very least calibration is a pain in the behind. 

Get the ASI1600mm pro or the 533 mono or OSC. But while people do get the 294 to work well for them. I would not recommend that someone new to dedicated astro cameras put themselves through. 

[Iem1]

This is why I post here first before placing orders

Thank you all for the input, I will go for the 1600MM bundle 

im thinking this one;

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi1600mm-pro-usb-3-mono-camera-efwmini-filter-wheel-31mm-lrgb-filter-set-31mm-h-alpha-filter-bundle.html

It has the UV/IR filter, is that used in conjunction with the LRGB filters and independent of the Ha filter? I'd assume the Ha filter already blocks all but the desired wavelengths of light? 

[Iem1]

Also, apologies, I thought I'd posted this in the Equipment section of the forum

[wimvb]

Have you considered one of the newer ZWO cameras that don't have amp glow (which the ASI294 has) or micro lens diffractions (which the ASI1600 has)? If amp glow free cameras are beyond your budget, there are cheaper brands with the same sensors, such as Rising Cam or Omegon.

[Simon Pepper]

41 minutes ago, Iem1 said:

This is why I post here first before placing orders

Thank you all for the input, I will go for the 1600MM bundle 

im thinking this one;

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi1600mm-pro-usb-3-mono-camera-efwmini-filter-wheel-31mm-lrgb-filter-set-31mm-h-alpha-filter-bundle.html

It has the UV/IR filter, is that used in conjunction with the LRGB filters and independent of the Ha filter? I'd assume the Ha filter already blocks all but the desired wavelengths of light? 

You won’t regret it! Depends how much the wallet can stretch. If you get Sii and Oiii at a later date you will wish you got the 7/8 position EFW as it’s a pain opening it up and swapping out RGB. Also you will ideally want an EAF as well mono soon gets pricey! To save some dish you could always look on ABS or here for a second hand one that’s how I got mine and been a dream. 

[The Lazy Astronomer]

Just as an additional note to the issues mentioned with the 294c, the mono version is better, but still has some issues with getting good flats. It doesn't make for a deal breaker, but it makes calibration more cumbersome than it needs to be. 

If I were you, I'd probably be looking at the 2600 if you could stretch to it, or the 533 (either osc or mono, depending on what you could afford/justify spending).

In the OSC v mono debate, my vote would always go to mono.

[Clarkey]

48 minutes ago, Simon Pepper said:

. If you get Sii and Oiii at a later date you will wish you got the 7/8 position EFW as it’s a pain opening it up and swapping out RGB

This is very true, especially if you are using 31mm unmounted filters. If your budget won't stretch to the 8 position wheel, the 1.25 mounted filters would be more user friendly to swap. However, the 31mm do allow slightly larger sensors.

FWIW I have the 1600mm pro and I have been really pleased with it. Flats are easy and amp glow is easily calibrated out. It is 'old tech' now but still very capable. I have recently purchased a Rising Cam IMX571 colour camera to complement the mono camera. (Could be an option for you?). I'll be using the 1600 for luminance data and the 571 for colour on a dual rig.

Ultimately any of these choices will give you good results, but if it was me I would start with the mono route. Personally I find the processing no harder than colour and you get the option of true narrowband imaging.

[Iem1]

Thanks for the input guys! 

I have had a look, if I went for the 533 MM, I would get;

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-accessories/zwo-8x-1-25-electronic-filter-wheel-efw.html

And the UV/IR filter

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-filters/zwo-125-iruv-cut-filter.html

Which if I'm not mistaken would be inserted into my field flattener as to block UV/IR before it hits the NB filters?

I was also thinking, with my budget, should I opt for Ha/sii/oiii first and perhaps add LRGB at a later date? Very interested in narrowband imaging. Or is the LRGB equally as important for producing inages? So this set;

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-filters/zwo-125-ha-sii-oiii-7nm-narrowband-filter-set.html

I believe the 1.25 inch is appropriate for the 533 MM?

For previous questions, I am using an ASIair Plus so I think I am restricted to ZWO cameras...My original budget was about £1,000. So naturally I'm looking at a £1,700+ basket at the moment But the 2600 MM is a bridge too far unfortunately.

I am also unsure of the difference between mounted/unmounted filters? (Manually inserted/changed v's electronic?)

Thanks again for all the input guys, it is much appreciated, first time looking into dedicated cameras/filters, so all the advice is very useful and appreciated.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Iem1

[Clarkey]

5 hours ago, Iem1 said:

am also unsure of the difference between mounted/unmounted filters? (Manually inserted/changed v's electronic?)

Unmounted filters are just glass. You need a frame to hold them in the EFW. Mounted are screw fitting with an outer metal ring.

 

5 hours ago, Iem1 said:

Which if I'm not mistaken would be inserted into my field flattener as to block UV/IR before it hits the NB filters?

You won't need to use a uv/if filter with the other filters. You only need this for some OSC cameras and for luminance data. This is basically what the standard ZWO luminance filter is.

 

5 hours ago, Iem1 said:

Or is the LRGB equally as important for producing inages

You can get away without LRGB but most people use these for true star colours. With NB you cannot get accurate stars.

 

[wimvb]

1.25" filters are ok, they have about 30 mm glass diameter, while the camera has a 16 mm diagonal sensor. 1.25" filters are mounted (have a threaded ring). 31 mm filters are unmounted (only glass), and are held in place by either small screws with washers or plastic filter rings (provided with the filter wheel).

Imo, go for an electronic filter wheel. As you already have automation from the ASIAIR, buying a manual wheel makes little sense. If you have a manual wheel, you need to be at the scope for each filter change. This will mess with your framing, because touching the scope will most certain push it a little. So you would need to redo a plate solve after each filter change. Also, manual wheels have a greater risk for light leaks than electronic wheels.

If you live in an even modestly  light polluted area, starting with just nb filters makes sense. Besides, autumn and early winter are more nebulae seasons. Unless you insist on having RGB stars in your nb images, you really don't need rgb filters yet. They could wait until after Christmas (hint), when galaxy season starts.

Edit: with nb and rgb filters, you don't need and shouldn't even use a uv/ir cut filter, as colour filters already block uv and ir light. The camera should have an AR cover window. Any glass that is not AR coated, such as filters, will only increase the risk for reflection artefacts.

Edited July 5, 2022 by wimvb

[ollypenrice]

Unmounted filters are simple to fit but you must have a filterweel designed to take them. The carousels are different so you need either the mounted or unmounted version.

I really wouldn't over-estimate the added complexity of mono. With OSC you have to stack and calibrate. You just do the same per filter with mono. I combine RGB in AstroArt, which takes about a minute. After that you'll have gradients to remove but that applies to OSC as well.

Olly

[wimvb]

9 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

The carousels are different so you need either the mounted or unmounted version.

The ZWO mini filter wheel can't take both types at the same time. The screws and washers that hold unmounted filters in place, come in the way for the screw in filters. But it can take both types (1.25" and 31 mm) separately.

Edited July 5, 2022 by wimvb

[wimvb]

I did a bit more digging. It looks like both the ZWO 5 x 1.25 and the 8 x 1.25 filter wheels can take both 1.25" mounted and 31 mm unmounted filters. But only in the larger wheel can both types be combined.

[barbulo]

If it was in your price range, I’d recommend the 294MM bundle. It’s the evolution of the 1600MM with higher QE and all. I never had issues with the calibration frames or any strange gradients. 

[AstroMuni]

On 04/07/2022 at 20:00, Iem1 said:

This is why I post here first before placing orders

Thank you all for the input, I will go for the 1600MM bundle 

Do consider the weather and number of opportunities you get for imaging as well. If you have the luxury of a dome or even a permanent pier that makes life easier. With the mono cameras you will need to spend time imaging with each filter to get the full LRGB.

I will stick to an OSC as I dont have the luxury of dome / pier and also being able to stay out late at night during weekdays. 😞