Anyone using INDIGOSKY / INDIGO Imager?

[barbulo]

6 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

and guiding, platesolving  is quicker too, in fact it’s all much quicker…

and 

50 minutes ago, gilesco said:

guiding from a computer other than the RPi is considerably better than doing the guiding in Ekos/PHD on the RPi.

sound contradictory to me. 🤷‍♂️

Edited November 17, 2021 by barbulo

[Stuart1971]

1 minute ago, barbulo said:

and 

seem contradictory to me. 🤷‍♂️

Well we obviously have different opinions, I can only go by the fact I have used both ways for over three years, on and off, and that was my opinion based on my findings, not sure on the other guy…..🤔🤔

[gilesco]

Just now, barbulo said:

and 

seem contradictory to me. 🤷‍♂️

Yes, I suppose different users have different experiences. There are differences between our set ups. Stuart is using Wifi for one reason or another (and is quite happy to run everything locally), whereas I have a stable connection via Ethernet, and can't use Wifi because it isn't stable or fast and interferes with my GPS (unless  I use a 5m USB extension cable).

[Stuart1971]

1 minute ago, gilesco said:

Yes, I suppose different users have different experiences. There are differences between our set ups. Stuart is using Wifi for one reason or another (and is quite happy to run everything locally), whereas I have a stable connection via Ethernet, and can't use Wifi because it isn't stable or fast and interferes with my GPS (unless  I use a 5m USB extension cable).

I dont use RPI internal wifi as that is rubbish and not stable, I use a USB 3 1200mbs wifi dongle….just as good as Ethernet…👍🏼
 

[gilesco]

1 minute ago, Stuart1971 said:

I dont use RPI internal wifi as that is rubbish and not stable, I use a USB 3 1200mbs wifi dongle….just as good as Ethernet…👍🏼
 

Not as good, as you said yourself - you're running Ekos on the Pi in case the Wifi flakes out.

Look, we've all been down the road of tinkering with our equipment, and we've all reached something that is optimal for our own set ups. You went down the road of running everything locally on the Pi to get over the Wifi interference, I went down the road of ensuring I had a stable Ethernet connection and disabling the Wifi, different solutions to a similar problem - I'm sure you had reasons to stick with Wifi, as I had reasons to disable mine and take a different route.

Different situations will have different solutions. Whatever works for you 🙂

 

 

[Stuart1971]

5 minutes ago, gilesco said:

Not as good, as you said yourself - you're running Ekos on the Pi in case the Wifi flakes out.

Look, we've all been down the road of tinkering with our equipment, and we've all reached something that is optimal for our own set ups. You went down the road of running everything locally on the Pi to get over the Wifi interference, I went down the road of ensuring I had a stable Ethernet connection and disabling the Wifi, different solutions to a similar problem - I'm sure you had reasons to stick with Wifi, as I had reasons to disable mine and take a different route.

Different situations will have different solutions. Whatever works for you 🙂

 

 

I am not running from wifi because of that at all, that is just one reason why anybody should run all from the PI to avoid it happening….it also means I can log in from any device during my imaging run, Laptop, desktop iPad or even phone….that is the main reason, as I use a 12” iPad to keep and eye on things, rather than only being able to see it all from the machine you run Kstars from….like you…😉

Edited November 17, 2021 by Stuart1971

[gilesco]

1 minute ago, Stuart1971 said:

I am not running from wifi because of that at all, that is just one reason why anybody should run all from the PI to avoid it happening….it also means I can log in from any device during my imaging run, Laptop, desktop iPad or even phone….that is the main reason, as I use a 12” iPad to keep and eye on things, rather than only being able to see it all from the machine you run Kstars from….like you…😉

I have a VNC server running on my PC that I run Kstars on as well 😉, that allows me to view / control kstars on phone / tablet etc...  - in case I need to focus my guide camera on the OAG etc... etc...

Different situations, different solutions. e.g. I don't have any spare USB3 ports on my currrent setup to try a different Wifi dongle, I already have a 10m Ethernet cable - works for me, as I'm sure your set up works for you.

I also like using things like the HIPs sky overlay in Kstars etc... so having kstars run on a more beefy system suits me.

[Stuart1971]

12 minutes ago, gilesco said:

Not as good, as you said yourself - you're running Ekos on the Pi in case the Wifi flakes out.

Look, we've all been down the road of tinkering with our equipment, and we've all reached something that is optimal for our own set ups. You went down the road of running everything locally on the Pi to get over the Wifi interference, I went down the road of ensuring I had a stable Ethernet connection and disabling the Wifi, different solutions to a similar problem - I'm sure you had reasons to stick with Wifi, as I had reasons to disable mine and take a different route.

Different situations will have different solutions. Whatever works for you 🙂

 

 

Also where did I actually state that I run it all from the PI because of bad wifi, hmmmm, I did not anywhere, I just said it’s something to think about if it drops out…when running in server mode….you would have to start all over again with your set up….

That does not mean I don’t think the internal wifi is rubbish hence my dongle, but never did I say this was the reason I run it as I do, so please read the posts properly before you make judgements….👍🏼

Edited November 17, 2021 by Stuart1971

[gilesco]

1 minute ago, Stuart1971 said:

Also where did I actually state that I run it all from the PI because of bad wifi, hmmmm, I did not anywhere, I just said it’s something to think about if it drops out…when running in server mode….you would have to start all over again with your set up….

That does not mean I don’t think the internal wifi is rubbish hence my dongle, but never did I say this was the reason I run it as I do, so please read the posts properly before you make judgements….👍🏼

Stuart - no one is making judgements here. We have both found different solutions to similar problems, there  is no right or wrong way.

I'm sorry if I've somehow come over the wrong way

 

[gilesco]

1 hour ago, gilesco said:

Is there a reason you're not running Kstars on your computer with the 4K screen and only running INDI on the RPi?

To which you responded:

36 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

If you loose wifi connection your screwed…and I can’t use Ethernet, the RPI is more than capable of running it all, and it’s quicker as no files to transfer over wifi back to main PC, and guiding, platesolving  is quicker too, in fact it’s all much quicker…👍🏼

I just assumed you took that route to avoid an actual problem. Sorry

 

[AstroMuni]

1 hour ago, vlaiv said:

I want to use software that I'm already used to / paid - like SGP. As far as I understand, SGP won't connect directly to INDI/INDIGO drivers as it is build for ASCOM. I know that Alpaca is just another layer, but as far as I can tell - not really that "heavy" layer to be much of a concern - like in creating latency or whatever.

What are you planning to use the RPi for?

In your case it sounds like a powered USB hub that is located outside connected by USB cable to laptop would do the trick. I dont have a solution off hand on how to bypass the USB cable to laptop (ie wireless), but I am sure there are ways around this.

Edited November 17, 2021 by AstroMuni

[vlaiv]

14 minutes ago, AstroMuni said:

What are you planning to use the RPi for?

In your case it sounds like a powered USB hub that is located outside connected by USB cable to laptop would do the trick. I dont have a solution off hand on how to bypass the USB cable to laptop (ie wireless), but I am sure there are ways around this.

Exactly as described - as remote station to control the mount and all.

I'll be using AzGTI that is wifi connected (don't use cable for that), ASI178mcc that will be USB connected to RPI and guide camera ASI185 that is again USB connected to hub on ASI178.

I could do some sort of elaborate long USB cable - but I don't want to complicate things and add more expense if I can make everything work as is with the gear that I have.

I've installed ASCOM 6.5 platform and figured out how to use Alpaca agent and driver - just need to get them connected as they seem not to talk at the moment (I'm fairly certain it is some sort of firewall issue or wrong port or something).

 

[AstroMuni]

14 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

'll be using AzGTI that is wifi connected (don't use cable for that), ASI178mcc that will be USB connected to RPI and guide camera ASI185 that is again USB connected to hub on ASI178.

Perhaps I havent understood this fully. How do you connect laptop to cameras now?

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, AstroMuni said:

Perhaps I havent understood this fully. How do you connect laptop to cameras now?

Depends how I image.

So far, I've been doing it "in the field", but since I moved to a new house - I'll be doing that in the obsy once it is finished.

That involved Windows 10 laptop and me being next the mount and all - that was setup with my regular Heq5 + serious scope and serious camera.

I now want to do some light wide field imaging with AzGti in EQ mode + small sensor and fast lens, and I want to do it remotely to minimize fiddling in the dark in my back yard which is full of building material and scrap still (my house is having facade finished as we type ).

All I want to do is take "grab&go" imaging setup and run one power cable. Everything else would ideally be remote. Hence all that RPI + INDIGO stuff. I already acquired that equipment and fiddled a bit with it before (last year and this spring) - but at the time INDIGO was not this far along as it is now - which opens up new possibilities that I want to exploit.

Ideally - I want not to change my workflow too much - that means Windows station, but with remote capability.

What I'm investigating now seems like ideal option. RPI4 loaded with INDIGO server that is ALPACA enabled and connecting remotely from my windows machine as if using ASCOM drivers locally. That will enable me to use SGP and PHD2 which I'm used at from the comfort of my study.

[callump]

FWIW - I use INDIGOSKY on two RPi3's in my observatory - one for the mount and auxiliaries and one for the cameras. I use the inbuilt wifi on both which works for my purposes. I use the Cloudmakers apps for MacOS on a MacBook to control - I prefer the Cloudmakers apps as they are rather less cluttered than EKOS which is difficult to use if you have any visual impairment.

/callump

[StevieDvd]

OK getting back to the concept of remote server instead of using long cables back to a local server.

We have many options available to people now to run mount-side computers (mini-pc running windows, Asiair/Astroberry/Stellarmate running on Rpi) - remote connection for these can be network, vnc, apps on phones etc.  The devices would typically be connected to that remote computer via USB, wi-fi and ethernet, possibly using usb hubs of many sorts.

I would hazard a guess that the number of non windows solutions has expended over the last few years due to the success of the Rpi systems and their simplicity for modest setups.

Now for a power user who wants to use the best of breed software we should be able to get to the stage where we can use a local & remote setup depsite the OS used.

If Ascom & indi-lib were common on both systems we could possibly achieve that. The remote computer would need to be powerful enough to run the devices but may pass the image processing to the local machine. Or the local machine may just be used for convenience/comfort.

I am intrugued by the mention that INDIGO could be a negotiator between Indi-lib drivers and Alpaca, as I understood at present the Alpaca agent did the negotiatin between Linux Alpaca drivers and the host Ascom server.

See Optec driver page for an example of the expansion of drivers for just one device.

Should the INDIGO solution void the need for Linux alpaca drivers that would be great then we can choose a remote/local setup as per our preferences.

Linix - Linux is already there, as is Windows - Windows, the mix of the OS's is the missing link.

I've had a fair bit of experience using api calling software in my banking software days. That's how your banking apps work in practise.

 

 

[StevieDvd]

58 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I've installed ASCOM 6.5 platform and figured out how to use Alpaca agent and driver - just need to get them connected as they seem not to talk at the moment (I'm fairly certain it is some sort of firewall issue or wrong port or something).

That's the part I'm intrigued with.  On the assumption we have proper connections/ports opened I'd like to see the devices controlled from a PC via INDIGO where there is no specific alpaca driver on the remote. I'm happy it should work if the alpaca driver was present.

[AstroMuni]

25 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

That involved Windows 10 laptop and me being next the mount and all - that was setup with my regular Heq5 + serious scope and serious camera.

What I was suggesting is just an extension of this wherein you have a hub to which the cameras are connected and a cable running from hub to your laptop (albeit a long one ). This to me is the simplest solution as there is no introduction of additional software in the middle. You could connect the mount to the hub as well, but as you've pointed out, you are able to use Wifi connectivity for that.

The RPi solution using INDIGO/ ALPACA seems to be viable. So good luck with that.

My reason for asking what RPi is used for was because with the RPi running INDIGO it would seem that all the grunt work is still being done on laptop and RPi just becomes a mediator between INDIGO & ASCOM.

[vlaiv]

18 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

That's the part I'm intrigued with.  On the assumption we have proper connections/ports opened I'd like to see the devices controlled from a PC via INDIGO where there is no specific alpaca driver on the remote. I'm happy it should work if the alpaca driver was present.

Check out this thread that I started in parallel to this one:

 

[StevieDvd]

22 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Check out this thread that I started in parallel to this one:

 

Thanks, I reloaded ASCOM 6.5SP1 (without the Ascom Remote part) and was able discover the mount on the Rpi from my PC,  downloaded Cartes Du Ciel and connnected, and moved, the mount - which was connected to an AZ-GTI via handeset port/usb lead.

INDIGO was fairly intuitive to setup. So if a device works in INDIGO there is a fair chance it will work with a remote alpaca setup. The mount used the indigo_mount_syscan driver and I don't think there were any alpaca drivers pre-loaded in astroberry.

 

[barbulo]

9 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

So if a device works in INDIGO there is a fair chance it will work with a remote alpaca setup.

I understand there are some caveats according to this web page. DSLR support being one of them 😭

Edited November 18, 2021 by barbulo

[StevieDvd]

23 minutes ago, barbulo said:

I understand there are some caveats according to this web page. DSLR support being one of them 😭

That's a shame - though if using an INDI capable program such as KStars it should be able to use a DSLR via indi lib.

[barbulo]

2 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

That's a shame - though if using an INDI capable program such as KStars it should be able to use a DSLR via indi lib.

Yes indeed: you can use DSLRs in KStars/EKOS through INDI. I've done it with my 600D. The problem is that ALPACA (interface INDI-ASCOM) doesn't support DSLRs. You can use your CANON with ASCOM (Windows) or INDI (all OS) drivers but not in a Windows system from a INDI server.

I would like to use the RPi placed in the rig running an INDI server and APT on a desktop to control the AP session. However, the two alternatives (APT supporting DSLR INDI drivers or through ALPACA) are not working yet.

I feel very comfortable using APT, though I'll probably give KStars/EKOS a try. The day the clouds go away al least a couple of hours. Someday. Next summer? ☁️☁️☁️

BTW, sorry for hijacking your thread, @vlaiv

[StevieDvd]

Have you tried with indigo_ccd_ptp driver in INDIGO?

[vlaiv]

8 minutes ago, barbulo said:

BTW, sorry for hijacking your thread, @vlaiv

No problem what so ever - we are all discussing similar things.

Btw, if there is INDI driver for DSLR - INDIGO can use it and possibly expose it to ALPACA ASCOM via ALPACA agent.

Maybe give it a go and see if it works?