Looking to buy a nice telescope for my father

[Tiny Clanger]

1 hour ago, pointedstick said:

The telescope finally arrived!!

Unfortunately my father is away right now, so we can't take it out together yet. And anyway, today is one of those rare cloudy days! Phooey.

So far I'm pretty impressed though. The telescope gives me some good views of terrestrial objects in the meantime. I got to see a nice up-close view of the top of the mountain in front of my house. And I found out that one of my distant neighbor's roof has has a re-shingle job done the lazy way by simply adding more shingles on top. Tsk, tsk.

The 40mm and 10mm eyepieces that come with the telescope seem reasonably good, at least to my layman's eye during the day. They actually give slightly brighter and sharper pictures than the Baader zoom lens I ordered when it's at its widest or narrowest settings (again, during the day). I guess because the light is just going through more glass? The Baader zoom seems quite convenient, but I hope it wasn't a mistake to buy.

The included tripod is wobbly when anything is touched at all. But the it settles down quickly enough and whole ensemble is very lightweight and portable, so that seems like a reasonable trade-off. I really like the fine adjustment controls. They're very intuitive.

The included red dot sight is junk. It doesn't have enough elevation to actually align it with the telescope! So it's pretty much useless. I guess I need to replace it. Luckily it's not that important with the app navigation.

Speaking of which, the app navigation is really cool. Again I haven't actually gotten to see anything in the sky with it, but I've gone through the alignment process. It's a snap, it takes like 10 seconds. I really, really like this technology. It is just so cool and (seemingly) easy to use. I'm hoping to try it out for real on Wednesday.

Thank you again, everyone!

Excellent news, great to hear the 'scope looks like it will live up  to expectations , and that the Starsense proved easy to set up.

Can you slide some card or folded paper under the front of the red dot finder (RDF) base to give it a little extra elevation ?  I did that with a 'scope I inherited (also a Celestron !) , I had to loosen the pair of bolts the RDF was held on by to do it, but once done,and the bolts tightened it cured the problem.

As for the tripod , make sure any fastenings are as tight as possible, and if you can use the 'scope without fully extending the tripod legs, perhaps observing from a seated position, that will help . There's an old photographers trick to steady any tripod : hang a weight off the centre to add some mass , a bottle of water suspended on a length of cord works .

Fingers crossed for clear skies soon 😉

Heather

 

[pointedstick]

The clouds abruptly parted (typical New Mexico weather lol) and I got the telescope outside for a first use.

Wow wow wow!

First I saw the moon in exquisite detail. That was really cool. The Baader was much nicer than the stock eyepieces in actual night use, so those regrets vanished.

I had less success with the app, unfortunately. It had a lot of trouble getting its bearings, maybe because of the still somewhat cloudy skies and possibly also light pollution from my unpleasant neighbors turning on a floodlight pointed at my house. So I can probably forgive the app that and try again on a clearer, darker night. But once it did align itself, the alignment was persistently off by a little bit. I could not find a way to manually correct this in the app. I manually corrected for it and managed to see some bright stars. Couldn't manage to find a good angle on any planets. The app really chows down on power! An external battery bank for the phone is a must with this thing.

After my phone died, I tried manually looking at bright things in the sky and the red dot scope's misalignment was really annoying. The problem isn't that I couldn't get the dot high enough to be aligned with the view through the eyepiece, but rather low enough. Not sure what I can do about this. Any suggestions for a replacement?

Finally, I feel like I need some kind of little collapsible stool or something. Again, any suggestions?

[AstroNebulee]

Regarding the rdf can't get low enough can you shim under the end nearest the back of the scope with some card like Heather has suggested, or you could get a 6x30 or 9x50 right angle correct image type, then the image will be as you see it with your eyes, I had a rdf and quickly swapped for one of these but a skywatcher version. As long as this will fit the shoe for the fs on your scope. 

 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/astro-essentials-9x50-right-angled-erecting-finderscope.html

on the collapseable stool I have one of these and brilliant 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08BNJKLTR/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_EB4TM4J91NGX55PFP1N8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

Enjoy the scope it sounds like you have been bitten by the astro bug 😊, clear skies 

 

 

Edit, looking at the scope close up now i see it may not fit a dovetail bracket type fs as I've suggested, there maybe an adapter or you could remove the whole fs and bracket and replace with a new fs shoe to accept the above finderscope or fit a rigel fs

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/rigel-quikfinder-compact-reflex-sight.html

The dovetail shoe is here if it can replace where your bracket is now. But try a little it ifshim underneath the fs towards the back of your scope should do the job well. 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by AstroNebulee
Edit information

[Cosmic Geoff]

Re the Starsense, a quirk of the hardware version is that its pointing will be persistently off unless the camera aim is synchronised with the telescope aim.  Even after that, it can be persistently off when re-used on subsequent nights.

Re the finder, it should be worth finding out why the finder cannot be adjusted.  There is no problem with my C8 which should be mechanically similar but a size bigger.  As others say, you should be able to shim it.  If the root problem is the shape of part of the telescope that the finder shoe is fixed to, changing the finder may not solve the problem. 

If you do change the finder, depending how you use the scope (and note the above comment) you might like the Baader red dot finder which costs about £30, or a 6x30 straight optical finder, or a RACI finder of up to 9x50.

[Starslayer]

14 hours ago, pointedstick said:

The telescope finally arrived!!

Unfortunately my father is away right now, so we can't take it out together yet. And anyway, today is one of those rare cloudy days! Phooey.

So far I'm pretty impressed though. The telescope gives me some good views of terrestrial objects in the meantime. I got to see a nice up-close view of the top of the mountain in front of my house. And I found out that one of my distant neighbor's roof has has a re-shingle job done the lazy way by simply adding more shingles on top. Tsk, tsk.

The 40mm and 10mm eyepieces that come with the telescope seem reasonably good, at least to my layman's eye during the day. They actually give slightly brighter and sharper pictures than the Baader zoom lens I ordered when it's at its widest or narrowest settings (again, during the day). I guess because the light is just going through more glass? The Baader zoom seems quite convenient, but I hope it wasn't a mistake to buy.

The included tripod is wobbly when anything is touched at all. But the it settles down quickly enough and whole ensemble is very lightweight and portable, so that seems like a reasonable trade-off. I really like the fine adjustment controls. They're very intuitive.

The included red dot sight is junk. It doesn't have enough elevation to actually align it with the telescope! So it's pretty much useless. I guess I need to replace it. Luckily it's not that important with the app navigation.

Speaking of which, the app navigation is really cool. Again I haven't actually gotten to see anything in the sky with it, but I've gone through the alignment process. It's a snap, it takes like 10 seconds. I really, really like this technology. It is just so cool and (seemingly) easy to use. I'm hoping to try it out for real on Wednesday.

Thank you again, everyone!

Excellent stuff.. As you know (earlier pm) I pulled the trigger on the same set up with Baader zoom, Astrozap dew shield and a moon filter.. Paid for delivery for last Saturday and,(no surprise with DHL) it did not arrive until Monday. FLO spot on and all delivery refunded without question (Thank you) .  Not had a chance to use in anger due to rubbish weather in UK but early observations from me are - this is quality and the technology promises bundles to a new guy.  I got the rfd aligned ok I think but it will not get too much use any way.  As a beginner I found some googling was required to use the filter in the right place. I had assumed it screwed to the top of the eye piece. Wrong!!  The dew shield can only be put on one way around due to the necessary cut out. When done the label is then upside down. Small point and easily rectified by reapplying or removing all together but loses points for attention to detail ( see pic ).  My big issue is the design of the tripod. The accessory tray assists stability yet it is hand bolted in place and has to be removed to close the legs up again sufficient to pass through a doorway. I want to be able to move this in and out of the house with  ease. It is compact and light weight ( part of reason for choice)  but I am already leaving the tray off so not to have to keep reattaching. Time will tell what effect this will have on stability.  Like pointedstick I have only used in daylight to find my way around it. I was concerned about a small greyish smudge in the middle of the 'view'. I thought this may be some misting up but now believe ( after research ) that this is in fact the secondary mirror I can see and that this will go when used at night. ( Comment on that one appreciated please. )

Onwards and upwards and looking forward to a fascinating journey.   

Edited May 18, 2021 by Starslayer
Update

[pointedstick]

I agree with your assessment regarding the tray, and I had the same issue last night. I am thinking of using a string to tie the tray to some part of the tripod so I can easily pull it off and let it dangle so I can fold the tripod up to move it in and out of doors without having to carry the tray. This whole rig can be easily hefted and moved around with one hand, so anything that facilitates or improves its mobility seems like a good thing. The zoom lens is a nice addition in that department too, since it stays attached so I don't actually have to use the tray to hold eyepieces.

[Starslayer]

1 minute ago, pointedstick said:

I agree with your assessment regarding the tray, and I had the same issue last night. I am thinking of using a string to tie the tray to some part of the tripod so I can easily pull it off and let it dangle so I can fold the tripod up to move it in and out of doors without having to carry the tray. This whole rig can be easily hefted and moved around with one hand, so anything that facilitates or improves its mobility seems like a good thing. The zoom lens is a nice addition in that department too, since it stays attached so I don't actually have to use the tray to hold eyepieces.

Did you also 'see' the 'smudge' in daylight view? 

[Louis D]

14 hours ago, pointedstick said:

The included tripod is wobbly when anything is touched at all. But the it settles down quickly enough and whole ensemble is very lightweight and portable, so that seems like a reasonable trade-off.

Try putting vibration suppression pads under each tripod foot.

14 hours ago, pointedstick said:

The included red dot sight is junk. It doesn't have enough elevation to actually align it with the telescope!

Try shimming the foot to see if you can get it to pop up a bit.

[Starslayer]

8 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Try putting vibration suppression pads under each tripod foot.

Try shimming the foot to see if you can get it to pop up a bit.

Useful advice but hey - we should not be having to do this with a £700 scope out of the box? 😉

[Louis D]

1 minute ago, Starslayer said:

Useful advice but hey - we should not be having to do this with a £700 scope out of the box? 😉

A good wooden tripod that absorbs vibrations like a Berlebach costs at least $300 alone.  Of course, you could make your own if you're handy, I suppose.

[Starslayer]

8 minutes ago, Louis D said:

A good wooden tripod that absorbs vibrations like a Berlebach costs at least $300 alone.  Of course, you could make your own if you're handy, I suppose.

No - that comment was in relation to having to shim the rdf.  I appreciate that with mounts etc you tend to get what you pay for. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Starslayer
Spelling

[Pixies]

For a suitable stool. A drum stool is a good option. you can often find them secondhand.

 

As a drummer, I have a few old ones kicking about.

[AstroMuni]

On 29/04/2021 at 03:35, pointedstick said:

He's a very non-technical person and a GoTo system is almost certainly the right choice for him. The easier it is to see something cool through the eyepiece, the better; if it's too fiddly or too hard to use, he just won't use it.

IGNORE all this, for some reason I could not see the recent updates .......... 😞

I think thats a good option. As you have gone for the Celestron's also take a look at their Starsense product (https://www.celestron.com/products/starsense-autoalign)  This should make life a breeze for him to setup the scope.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by AstroMuni

[Tiny Clanger]

10 hours ago, pointedstick said:

The clouds abruptly parted (typical New Mexico weather lol) and I got the telescope outside for a first use.

Wow wow wow!

First I saw the moon in exquisite detail. That was really cool. The Baader was much nicer than the stock eyepieces in actual night use, so those regrets vanished.

I had less success with the app, unfortunately. It had a lot of trouble getting its bearings, maybe because of the still somewhat cloudy skies and possibly also light pollution from my unpleasant neighbors turning on a floodlight pointed at my house. So I can probably forgive the app that and try again on a clearer, darker night. But once it did align itself, the alignment was persistently off by a little bit. I could not find a way to manually correct this in the app. I manually corrected for it and managed to see some bright stars. Couldn't manage to find a good angle on any planets. The app really chows down on power! An external battery bank for the phone is a must with this thing.

After my phone died, I tried manually looking at bright things in the sky and the red dot scope's misalignment was really annoying. The problem isn't that I couldn't get the dot high enough to be aligned with the view through the eyepiece, but rather low enough. Not sure what I can do about this. Any suggestions for a replacement?

Finally, I feel like I need some kind of little collapsible stool or something. Again, any suggestions?

The interesting planets are not very well placed for viewing at the moment , that's something to look forward to in a month or two !

Looking at the images on FLO's site, it looks like your RDF is not on a standard shoe (like the image posted above) but is held on by a couple of screws or bolts . If you can't shim the thing (and if the base is small, you may not be able to ) there are two well known finders which operate in a similar way , but show red circles rather than dots, and being light weight have the rather handy feature of coming with stick-on bases and sticky pads, so there's no worry about fixing metal finder shoes and the heavier optical finders which are essentially small telescopes themselves.

The two types of red circle finders are Telrads and Rigel Quickfinders. Both have their advantages , and their adherents (it's a bit of an apple vs android scenario , so I'll tread carefully ...) The Telrads are long, um, utilitarian looking, but have been around for ages and have a reputation for longevity. Rigel Quickfinders are taller but with a smaller footprint, and have some built in features which come as optional extras on the Telrad. Either will do the job, and have inbuilt adjustment so you can align it properly, but do check if the Telrad would be too long to fit your tube .

Heather

 

[Tiny Clanger]

53 minutes ago, Starslayer said:

 we should not be having to do this with a £700 scope out of the box? 😉

You'd think so, but (slightly bitter ) experience has taught me that most telescope packages have at least some accessories which are little more than flimsy 'get you started' barely adequate items . Eyepieces are often the cheapest the maker can getaway with, ditto the finders.

Guess who happens to make some better eyepieces and finders , and would be happy to take some more of your money for them ? (Well they would if any were available at the moment ... ) Yep, got it in one .... the telescope manufacturers.

[oscar_camilleri]

17 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

The two types of red circle finders are Telrads and Rigel Quickfinders. Both have their advantages , and their adherents (it's a bit of an apple vs android scenario , so I'll tread carefully ...) The Telrads are long, um, utilitarian looking, but have been around for ages and have a reputation for longevity. Rigel Quickfinders are taller but with a smaller footprint, and have some built in features which come as optional extras on the Telrad. Either will do the job, and have inbuilt adjustment so you can align it properly, but do check if the Telrad would be too long to fit your tube .

I have a Celestron 8SE and have both a Telrad and a right angle finder on it.  I must say that the Telrad is worth its weight in gold.  once you align it with the scope it pretty much stays in alignment for all eternity , even when taken off and put on again and I absolutely love it for aligning the scope or locate object in the night sky. Even when star hopping , usually i use the Telrad to locate the fist star and then carry on the rest of the way with the finder scope. 

[Tiny Clanger]

8 minutes ago, oscar_camilleri said:

I have a Celestron 8SE and have both a Telrad and a right angle finder on it.  I must say that the Telrad is worth its weight in gold.  once you align it with the scope it pretty much stays in alignment for all eternity , even when taken off and put on again and I absolutely love it for aligning the scope or locate object in the night sky. Even when star hopping , usually i use the Telrad to locate the fist star and then carry on the rest of the way with the finder scope. 

I use a Rigel Quickfinder and a RACI on my mak and dob, neither 'scope would be long enough for proper use of a  telrad, and the elevated sight on the Rigel works perfectly, as does the built in pulsing facility and the variable brightness. The Rigel has never dewed up on me either , despite having no aftermarket shield or heating . My  ST80 is so wide field it doesn't really need a finder, but the stock RDF which came bundled with the mak is on it, just so it has a use. Weirdly the hardest thing I've tried to line up on with the ST80 is the Sun ... Specialist finder bought for that.

The OP has their starsense device which should, if the adverts are accurate, mean he does not need to add a RACI  as the 'phone should perform that function (and more) for him .

 

[Starslayer]

For what it is worth

[Tiny Clanger]

Ha, exactly what I did with the RDF on the Celestron 114 EQ a decade ago ! Have Celestron really not bothered sorting the thing out yet ?!

14 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Excellent news, great to hear the 'scope looks like it will live up  to expectations , and that the Starsense proved easy to set up.

Can you slide some card or folded paper under the front of the red dot finder (RDF) base to give it a little extra elevation ?  I did that with a 'scope I inherited (also a Celestron !) , I had to loosen the pair of bolts the RDF was held on by to do it, but once done,and the bolts tightened it cured the problem.

 

 

[pointedstick]

I found that video too, and the shim worked. Now the red dot scope is bang on target.

It still doesn't seem like the highest quality item; the zeroing knobs don't seem to have any way to lock them in place, so I imagine it'll need to be re-zeroed a lot. I may end up replacing it anyway. But at least now it's not a necessity.

[pointedstick]

10 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Re the Starsense, a quirk of the hardware version is that its pointing will be persistently off unless the camera aim is synchronised with the telescope aim.  Even after that, it can be persistently off when re-used on subsequent nights.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

The alignment procedure in the app asks you to point the telescope at a bright object in the sky, then align a crosshairs over it in the phone. I assumed this is that synchronization, no? however even after this, the aim is still off. I gather I've done something wrong, but I haven't yet figured out what.

Edited May 18, 2021 by pointedstick
tpyo

[Tiny Clanger]

32 minutes ago, pointedstick said:

I found that video too, and the shim worked. Now the red dot scope is bang on target.

It still doesn't seem like the highest quality item; the zeroing knobs don't seem to have any way to lock them in place, so I imagine it'll need to be re-zeroed a lot. I may end up replacing it anyway. But at least now it's not a necessity.

 

You may be pleasantly surprised , the one I had stayed pretty much lined up as long as I didn't bang it against the door frame when carrying the setup outside.

[Starslayer]

41 minutes ago, pointedstick said:

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

The alignment procedure in the app asks yo to point the telescope at a bright object in the sky, then align a crosshairs over it in the phone. I assumed this is that synchronization, no? however even after this, the aim is still off. I gather I've done something wrong, but I haven't yet figured out what.

I may be well wrong here but I suspect they are talking about Starsense with the inbuilt camera etc rather than starsense explorer tech using the smart phone. Seeing this ‘misunderstanding’ alot in my research. A shame the two names are so confusingly close for what are really VERY different things especially to us beginners. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Starslayer

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, Starslayer said:

For what it is worth

Pretty much what I was saying from recollections of past discussions on this RDF.

[AstroNebulee]

4 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

The two types of red circle finders are Telrads and Rigel Quickfinders. Both have their advantages , and their adherents (it's a bit of an apple vs android scenario , so I'll tread carefully ...)

That's the other one I was trying to think of Telrad, could not for one minute remember that at dinnertime earlier. 🤪