40 mm wide field eyepiece

[Deadlake]

I’m looking for a 2” wide field eyepiece around 40mm.

Searching the forums apart from the obvious 41 mm panoptic, the 40 mm paragon comes up. The paragon was discontinued some time ago however clones where made of it.

Are any of these paragon clones still be made?

What other EP’s should I look at apart from the 41 mm panoptic?

I have seen Masuyama Ultra-Premium, however don’t like fast scopes.

Telescope 130 mm / F6.

Backyard Bortle 4 (whatever that means) 20.5 SQM

Thanks

Edited February 13, 2021 by Deadlake
Added another EP

[Don Pensack]

Looks like 2" 40mm widefield eyepieces are scarce.

Here is what I found:

Kitakaru	RPL	40	65
Explore Scientific	68	40	68
OVL	AeroED	40	68
Pentax	XW	40	70
William Optics	Swan	40	70

 

Of the above, the one that stands out is the 40mm Pentax XW.

Not cheap, but much less than the 41mm Panoptic.

[SiriusB]

I don't want to put you off, but  with 40mm ep in an f6 scope you're nearly @ a 7mm exit pupil.

    Unless you've  access to  pretty dark skies you may be disappointed with how bright the sky background appears through this setup.

For reference, in 80's darkish rural skies 5.5mm exit pupil was about my lower limit. Always found 10x50 binos better than 7x50's back then.

These days in suburban skies, around 4mm exit pupil is about as low as i dare go.

Everyone's different, but for your consideration, something shorter & wider may prove more practical??

[Ricochet]

There's a 40mm Maxvision in the classifieds at a bit of a bargain price. The Maxvision is a rebranded Meade SWA and optically the same as the ES68. 

[John]

Until recently I had a 40mm Aero ED. These were originally available in the USA under the Astro Tech branding as their Titan II range and I believe had the same optics in them as the TMB Paragons. The Paragon range was 40mm and 30mm. The Aero ED's included a 35mm as well. I had the 30mm and the 40mm. The 30mm was quite good but the 40mm was excellent. Very well corrected at the edge of field for it's price in my F/6.5 Vixen ED 102 refractor and even in my F/5.3 12 inch dobsonian although the exit pupil was not terribly effective in that latter scope.

The Aero ED's (also available under other brandings) are also reasonably light for 2 inch eyepieces.

Unfortunately I can't see the 40mm listed anywhere now but if you do come across one they are worthy of serious consideration for use in F/6 and slower scopes.

I let mine go for a silly price a couple of months back simply because I find shorter focal length UWA's and Hyper-Wides more effective under my moderately light polluted skies. Probably should have hung onto it

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by John

[Deadlake]

1 hour ago, SiriusB said:

I don't want to put you off, but  with 40mm ep in an f6 scope you're nearly @ a 7mm exit pupil.

    Unless you've  access to  pretty dark skies you may be disappointed with how bright the sky background appears through this setup.

For reference, in 80's darkish rural skies 5.5mm exit pupil was about my lower limit. Always found 10x50 binos better than 7x50's back then.

These days in suburban skies, around 4mm exit pupil is about as low as i dare go.

Everyone's different, but for your consideration, something shorter & wider may prove more practical??

Backyard Bortle 4 (whatever that means) 20.5 SQM. What point do you think the cut off is for my light polluted sky.

[Deadlake]

25 minutes ago, John said:

Until recently I had a 40mm Aero ED. These were originally available in the USA under the Astro Tech branding as their Titan II range and I believe had the same optics in them as the TMB Paragons. The Paragon range was 40mm and 30mm. The Aero ED's included a 35mm as well. I had the 30mm and the 40mm. The 30mm was quite good but the 40mm was excellent. Very well corrected at the edge of field for it's price in my F/6.5 Vixen ED 102 refractor and even in my F/5.3 12 inch dobsonian although the exit pupil was not terribly effective in that latter scope.

The Aero ED's (also available under other brandings) are also reasonably light for 2 inch eyepieces.

Unfortunately I can't see the 40mm listed anywhere now but if you do come across one they are worthy of serious consideration for use in F/6 and slower scopes.

I let mine go for a silly price a couple of months back simply because I find shorter focal length UWA's and Hyper-Wides more effective under my moderately light polluted skies. Probably should have hung onto it

 

Maybe I should try the 30 mm first, is the APM based on the paragon design?

http://apm-telescopes-englisch.shopgate.com/item/333631373637
 

[Deadlake]

2 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Looks like 2" 40mm widefield eyepieces are scarce.

Here is what I found:

Kitakaru	RPL	40	65
Explore Scientific	68	40	68
OVL	AeroED	40	68
Pentax	XW	40	70
William Optics	Swan	40	70

 

Of the above, the one that stands out is the 40mm Pentax XW.

Not cheap, but much less than the 41mm Panoptic.

Tempted by the Pentax, what am I giving up over the 41 mm panoptic?

[SiriusB]

Hard for me to say,I'm not over familiar with bortle scale, looking @ the scale i'd say i had bortle 3 or a little better skies in 80's~ Idid see m33 naked eye on the very best of Autumn nights with young eyes.

I'm Probably bortle 5 @ best now.

Maybe try 5mm exit pupil?

Ideally you'd beg, borrow or steal some ep's of different focal lengths to try before spending a fair chunk of change.

 

[SiriusB]

3 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Maybe I should try the 30 mm first, is the APM based on the paragon design?

http://apm-telescopes-englisch.shopgate.com/item/333631373637
 

If you were happy with a 40mm before, please ignore my 2cents.

[jetstream]

17 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

What point do you think the cut off is for my light polluted sky.

A 5mm exit pupil is a great all round one for most skies, some buddies over there will go 4mm and up to 5ish.  Its too bad there are no 100 deg eyepieces for the fracs ie 30mm+. The Pentax 30mm XW had a great reputation, personally I use the adequate but not great 42mm LVW at f7-7.5.

[Deadlake]

1 minute ago, SiriusB said:

If you were happy with a 40mm before, please ignore my 2cents.

I have a 40 mm televue possel at present being used in a vixen SD103S F7.7

Hoping with a 2” EP I can see more, more opportunities for better framing.

[John]

20 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Maybe I should try the 30 mm first, is the APM based on the paragon design?

http://apm-telescopes-englisch.shopgate.com/item/333631373637
 

That is an eyepiece of a different design. It gets good reviews so a worthy contender if 30mm will suffice.

 

[Deadlake]

Just now, John said:

That is an eyepiece of a different design. It gets good reviews so a worthy contender if 30mm will suffice.

 

I’d always use a 30 mm, however estimating effects of light pollution is trial and error so maybe safest approach.

[SiriusB]

8 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

I have a 40 mm televue possel at present being used in a vixen SD103S F7.7

Hoping with a 2” EP I can see more, more opportunities for better framing.

That's around 5mm exit pupil, pop it in your 130mm f6 & see how you get on?

Yes a 2" will give you wider more aesthetic views.

Conversely, as i slowly become a more critical observer, sometimes a narrower field of view enables you to see fainter objects, (less overall background light to the eye @ the expense of 'better framing')

[Deadlake]

6 minutes ago, SiriusB said:

That's around 5mm exit pupil, pop it in your 130mm f6 & see how you get on?

Yes a 2" will give you wider more aesthetic views.

Conversely, as i slowly become a more critical observer, sometimes a narrower field of view enables you to see fainter objects, (less overall background light to the eye @ the expense of 'better framing')

That would make sense, trying to get ahead as 130/F6 is in transit, and given the shipping times I’m planning ahead. But would make sense to go with a 30 mm EP and then see how I get on with both.

[SiriusB]

13 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

That would make sense, trying to get ahead as 130/F6 is in transit, and given the shipping times I’m planning ahead. But would make sense to go with a 30 mm EP and then see how I get on with both.

Rome wasn't built in a day....& a 'definative' eyepiece collection probably takes much longer 😉

[John]

I find a higher magnification darkens the background sky and helps to tease out the fainter DSO's but I want to maintain a large true field as well. Hence UWA and HWA eyepieces. More £'s as well of course

 

 

[Deadlake]

3 minutes ago, SiriusB said:

Rome wasn't built in a day....& a 'definative' eyepiece collection probably takes much longer 😉

It took some time, but Rome can be built, I have one end of the spectrum covered! 

[Mr Spock]

I use a 42mm LVW. Lovely eyepiece. You can’t get new ones any more. There is a used one on ENS Optical. 

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, Deadlake said:

I have one end of the spectrum covered! 

 

It doesnt get better than these IMHO!

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, Deadlake said:

Backyard Bortle 4 (whatever that means) 20.5 SQM. What point do you think the cut off is for my light polluted sky.

I'm under Bortle 5/6 skies and find views at f/6 with a 40mm eyepiece to be very rewarding.  If you're looking at bright open clusters like the Pleiades, the brighter sky background isn't a big deal.  I can even pick up on some of the nebulosity around some of the stars despite the low contrast.

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, Deadlake said:

Maybe I should try the 30 mm first, is the APM based on the paragon design?

http://apm-telescopes-englisch.shopgate.com/item/333631373637
 

Excellent eyepiece not at all related to the Paragon.  It is world class in every way.  It is better corrected than the 30mm Pentax XW despite being cheaper, lighter, and thinner.  You do give up quite a bit of true field of view relative to maximum true field of view available in a 40mm 70 degree eyepiece.

It is available under the Altair UF and Meade PWA brands as well.  They're all made by KUO in China.

You see how well corrected it is compared to my other 29mm to 30mm eyepieces below:

The full width views are taken with a super wide angle, but lower resolution, camera to capture the entire 70°+ views that extend beyond the edges of the narrower, higher resolution camera used for the first set of images.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Louis D

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, jetstream said:

A 5mm exit pupil is a great all round one for most skies, some buddies over there will go 4mm and up to 5ish.  Its too bad there are no 100 deg eyepieces for the fracs ie 30mm+. The Pentax 30mm XW had a great reputation, personally I use the adequate but not great 42mm LVW at f7-7.5.

There certainly is a 30mm 100 degree eyepiece for refractors, the 3" Explore Scientific one.  You just need a 3 inch compatible focuser and a 3 inch diagonal.  It is reportedly a very well corrected eyepiece.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Louis D

[Louis D]

7 hours ago, Ricochet said:

There's a 40mm Maxvision in the classifieds at a bit of a bargain price. The Maxvision is a rebranded Meade SWA and optically the same as the ES68. 

I have the 40mm Meade 5000 SWA version, and it is slightly better corrected across the field than my 40mm Pentax XW despite costing me 1/3 as much.  It is about 7 ounces heavier than the Pentax once decloaked, though.  The Pentax has slightly less SAEP and significantly less usable eye relief (17mm vs 24mm) due to the inexplicable 7mm eye lens recession.  The tapered top of the Pentax makes it more comfortable.  The Pentax is also slightly wider in AFOV (70° vs 69°), eAFOV (66° vs 65°) and TFOV (46.2mm FS vs 45.7mm FS)  than the Meade.  Overall, though, I haven't been able to make up mind as to which will reside in the A-team eyepiece case.  They're more alike than different.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Louis D