40 mm wide field eyepiece

[Louis D]

8 hours ago, Deadlake said:

I’m looking for a 2” wide field eyepiece around 40mm.

Searching the forums apart from the obvious 41 mm panoptic, the 40 mm paragon comes up. The paragon was discontinued some time ago however clones where made of it.

Are any of these paragon clones still be made?

The 35mm Aero ED is still available from a few vendors (verify availability first) and has a field stop only 1.5mm smaller than the 40mm Paragon, and at a higher power to boot.  Correction-wise, Ernest in Russia has tested it to be above the 30mm and below the 40mm.  It's decent in the inner 75% at f/6.  If you look in the center and keep the outer field in your peripheral vision, it should work well for you.  It's priced very competitively, it's light, and it's compact.

Here's how it compared to my other 32mm to 42mm eyepieces (minus the 40mm Pentax XW-R which I didn't have at the time):

Edited February 14, 2021 by Louis D

[scarp15]

A 41mm Panoptic in my particular three scopes yields a 5.8mm, 6.8mm and (paracorr modified) 7.73mm exit pupil. They each work, used for specific targets on dark sky outings. Purchased on ebay, worth looking out for used. A 30mm - 31mm eyepiece though receives perhaps more general overall use.

[Spile]

I picked up a used Revelation/GSO 42mm 65° FOV for a reasonable price and I am pleased with its performance. It does well in reviews for example:

https://astromart.com/reviews-and-articles/reviews/eyepieces/other/show/knight-owl-services-gso-eyepiece-review

[Deadlake]

14 hours ago, John said:

I find a higher magnification darkens the background sky and helps to tease out the fainter DSO's but I want to maintain a large true field as well. Hence UWA and HWA eyepieces. More £'s as well of course

 

 

Using the spreadsheet on 30/31mm 2" EP's,  FL = 900 m and F6 gives: 

1 Brand	Model	Type	FL	Diam.	AFOV	Price	Exit Pupil	Eye Relief	Calc.FieldStop
Celestron	Luminos	UltraWideField	31	2.00	82	$ 269.95	5.2	27.0	44.4
TeleVue	Nagler5	UltraWideField	31	2.00	82	$ 666.00	5.2	19.0	44.4
Antares	W70	Wide-Field	31	2.00	72	$ 97.46	5.2	16.0	39.0
Baader Planetarium	Hyperion Aspheric	Wide-Field	31	2.00	72	$ 209.99	5.2	18.0	39.0
Explore Scientific	3" Series	Hyperwide field	30	3.00	100	$ 999.99	5.0	17.0	52.4
Explore Scientific	82 Series	UltraWideField	30	2.00	82	$ 369.99	5.0	21.0	42.9
OpticStar (Opticstar Brand)	XL Ultra Wide Angle	UltraWideField	30	2.00	82	$ 336.25	5.0	21.0	42.9
Astromania	UltraWide 80	UltraWideField	30	2.00	80	$ 90.89	5.0	16.0	41.9
KnightOwl (may not be available)	Ultra-Wide	UltraWideField	30	2.00	80	$ 74.95	5.0	28.0	41.9
Moonfish	Ultra Wide	UltraWideField	30	2.00	80	$ 145.00	5.0	22.0	41.9
Olivon	Superwide ED	UltraWideField	30	2.00	80	$ 147.00	5.0	16.0	41.9
Altair Astro (UK)	UltraFlat	Wide-Field	30	2.00	70	$ 219.70	5.0	22.0	36.7
APM	Ultra Flat Field	Wide-Field	30	2.00	70	$ 229.00	5.0	22.0	36.7
Explore Scientific (Bresser)	70° Series	Wide-Field	30	2.00	70	$ 119.99	5.0	?	36.7
GSO (Guan Sheng Optical)	Superview	Wide-Field	30	2.00	70	$ 64.95	5.0	22.0	36.7
Pentax	SMC-XW	Wide-Field	30	2.00	70	$ 369.95	5.0	20.0	36.7
Telescope Service	UFL	General Use	30	2.00	69	$ 120.32	5.0	16.7	36.1
OVL (First Light Optics)	Aero ED	Wide-Field	30	2.00	68	$ 117.81	5.0	16.7	35.6
Skywatcher	Aero ED	Wide-Field	30	2.00	68	$ 131.25	5.0	16.7	35.6
Telescope Service	Wide Angle	Wide-Field	30	2.00	68	$ 92.34	5.0	?	35.6
TPO (from OPT)	SuperView (Erfle)	Wide-Field	30	2.00	68	$ 64.95	5.0	20.0	35.6
Vixen	NLVW	Wide-Field	30	2.00	65	$ 219.00	5.0	22.4	34.0
Kitakaru	RPL	General Use	30	2.00	62	$ 115.99	5.0	15.0	32.5
Sterling (Smart Astronomy)	Plossl	Plossl	30	2.00	55	$ 79.95	5.0	18.0	28.8

Choice seems to revolve around AFOV and exit pull, given most pupil relief is over 20 mm.

Trawling the CN threads and the 31 mm Nagler seems a default in each EP storage box, why does it @Johnjustify almost double the price of the other premium EP's around 30mm? 

The ones that jump out to me are:

1. Televue Nagler 31
2. Explorer Scientific 82 Series
3. APM UUF 
4. TS UFL

The Pentax and Vixen are good, but are reportedly behind the others.
 

 

[jetstream]

The 30mm Pentax XW has a very high reputation.

[John]

3 hours ago, Deadlake said:

Using the spreadsheet on 30/31mm 2" EP's,  FL = 900 m and F6 gives: 

1 Brand	Model	Type	FL	Diam.	AFOV	Price	Exit Pupil	Eye Relief	Calc.FieldStop
Celestron	Luminos	UltraWideField	31	2.00	82	$ 269.95	5.2	27.0	44.4
TeleVue	Nagler5	UltraWideField	31	2.00	82	$ 666.00	5.2	19.0	44.4
Antares	W70	Wide-Field	31	2.00	72	$ 97.46	5.2	16.0	39.0
Baader Planetarium	Hyperion Aspheric	Wide-Field	31	2.00	72	$ 209.99	5.2	18.0	39.0
Explore Scientific	3" Series	Hyperwide field	30	3.00	100	$ 999.99	5.0	17.0	52.4
Explore Scientific	82 Series	UltraWideField	30	2.00	82	$ 369.99	5.0	21.0	42.9
OpticStar (Opticstar Brand)	XL Ultra Wide Angle	UltraWideField	30	2.00	82	$ 336.25	5.0	21.0	42.9
Astromania	UltraWide 80	UltraWideField	30	2.00	80	$ 90.89	5.0	16.0	41.9
KnightOwl (may not be available)	Ultra-Wide	UltraWideField	30	2.00	80	$ 74.95	5.0	28.0	41.9
Moonfish	Ultra Wide	UltraWideField	30	2.00	80	$ 145.00	5.0	22.0	41.9
Olivon	Superwide ED	UltraWideField	30	2.00	80	$ 147.00	5.0	16.0	41.9
Altair Astro (UK)	UltraFlat	Wide-Field	30	2.00	70	$ 219.70	5.0	22.0	36.7
APM	Ultra Flat Field	Wide-Field	30	2.00	70	$ 229.00	5.0	22.0	36.7
Explore Scientific (Bresser)	70° Series	Wide-Field	30	2.00	70	$ 119.99	5.0	?	36.7
GSO (Guan Sheng Optical)	Superview	Wide-Field	30	2.00	70	$ 64.95	5.0	22.0	36.7
Pentax	SMC-XW	Wide-Field	30	2.00	70	$ 369.95	5.0	20.0	36.7
Telescope Service	UFL	General Use	30	2.00	69	$ 120.32	5.0	16.7	36.1
OVL (First Light Optics)	Aero ED	Wide-Field	30	2.00	68	$ 117.81	5.0	16.7	35.6
Skywatcher	Aero ED	Wide-Field	30	2.00	68	$ 131.25	5.0	16.7	35.6
Telescope Service	Wide Angle	Wide-Field	30	2.00	68	$ 92.34	5.0	?	35.6
TPO (from OPT)	SuperView (Erfle)	Wide-Field	30	2.00	68	$ 64.95	5.0	20.0	35.6
Vixen	NLVW	Wide-Field	30	2.00	65	$ 219.00	5.0	22.4	34.0
Kitakaru	RPL	General Use	30	2.00	62	$ 115.99	5.0	15.0	32.5
Sterling (Smart Astronomy)	Plossl	Plossl	30	2.00	55	$ 79.95	5.0	18.0	28.8

Choice seems to revolve around AFOV and exit pull, given most pupil relief is over 20 mm.

Trawling the CN threads and the 31 mm Nagler seems a default in each EP storage box, why does it @Johnjustify almost double the price of the other premium EP's around 30mm? 

The ones that jump out to me are:

1. Televue Nagler 31
2. Explorer Scientific 82 Series
3. APM UUF 
4. TS UFL

The Pentax and Vixen are good, but are reportedly behind the others.
 

 

I've owned the 31mm Nagler longer than any of my other eyepieces. Explore Scientific were not in the game when I bought it. I'm not very good at justifying the costs of quality equipment I'm afraid

I don't use the Nagler 31mm very much since I got the 21mm Ethos, the cost of which would be even harder to justify with things like the APM 20mm / 100 around now.

I did compare the Nagler 31mm with the Pentax XW 30mm and the Nirvana / UWAN 28mm quite a few years back:

3bigeps.pdf

It is interesting to note that the Pentax XW 30mm is £100 less expensive today than it was back in 2009 when I compared them. The Nagler is £200 MORE expensive now than it was back then.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by John

[Deadlake]

33 minutes ago, John said:

I've owned the 31mm Nagler longer than any of my other eyepieces. Explore Scientific were not in the game when I bought it. I'm not very good at justifying the costs of quality equipment I'm afraid

I don't use the Nagler 31mm very much since I got the 21mm Ethos, the cost of which would be even harder to justify with things like the APM 20mm / 100 around now.

I did compare the Nagler 31mm with the Pentax XW 30mm and the Nirvana / UWAN 28mm quite a few years back:

3bigeps.pdf 448.39 kB · 1 download

It is interesting to note that the Pentax XW 30mm is £100 less expensive today than it was back in 2009 when I compared them. The Nagler is £200 MORE expensive now than it was back then.

 

 

Interesting read @John . Ok the Pentax XW 30 is back on the list. Need to look as Explore Scientific more. I'm thinking if the APM (good value), ES have moved on (increased in capacity) so much maybe don't need the Nagler, big investment. You could buy a full set of HR's for a Nagler 31mm.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Deadlake

[mikeDnight]

On 13/02/2021 at 19:00, Deadlake said:

I’m looking for a 2” wide field eyepiece around 40mm.

Searching the forums apart from the obvious 41 mm panoptic, the 40 mm paragon comes up. The paragon was discontinued some time ago however clones where made of it.

Are any of these paragon clones still be made?

What other EP’s should I look at apart from the 41 mm panoptic?

I have seen Masuyama Ultra-Premium, however don’t like fast scopes.

Telescope 130 mm / F6.

Backyard Bortle 4 (whatever that means) 20.5 SQM

Thanks

The 40mm Pentax XW is a very nice eyepiece. The 30mm may be better though, as with a 40mm the sky background tends to be too bright, and nebulous objects not so easy to see. The 30mm XW or 31mm Nagler are two of the best I've used. The 40mm Paragon lost it towards the edge slightly. 

[JeremyS]

18 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

The 40mm Pentax XW is a very nice eyepiece. The 30mm may be better though, as with a 40mm the sky background tends to be too bright, and nebulous objects not so easy to see. The 30mm XW or 31mm Nagler are two of the best I've used. The 40mm Paragon lost it towards the edge slightly. 

Good point about sky background and long FL/low mag eyepieces.I’m Bortle 4, but with the Tak TSA 120 I prefer the Nagler 26 as my lowest power as it a good balance of low power and darker background. 40mm doesn’t do it for me. The Nagler 31 is simply too heavy. Pentax XW 30 sounds like a good option but I’ve never used one.

[jetstream]

2 hours ago, Deadlake said:

Need to look as Explore Scientific more

ES 30 82mm...

I have one, but I think if buying again it would be the XW30 or 30mmUFF. Just sayin'

[Louis D]

30 minutes ago, jetstream said:

ES 30 82mm...

I have one, but I think if buying again it would be the XW30 or 30mmUFF. Just sayin'

I have the 30mm ES-82 and the 30mm APM UFF.  The former has more of a wow factor, but has some issues toward the edge (ring of fire, aka CAEP).  The latter is narrower, but easier to use with eyeglasses, and is basically flawless across the field.

[Deadlake]

1 hour ago, jetstream said:

ES 30 82mm...

I have one, but I think if buying again it would be the XW30 or 30mmUFF. Just sayin'

Looking at the cost of Televue based EPs, I could own half of some of the EP collections on CN and have spare cash for a NV monocular and see so much more, the richest of richest field telescopes. Being late to the party has benefits...

[Deadlake]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

I have the 30mm ES-82 and the 30mm APM UFF.  The former has more of a wow factor, but has some issues toward the edge (ring of fire, aka CAEP).  The latter is narrower, but easier to use with eyeglasses, and is basically flawless across the field.

What about the 24 mm ES-82? Avoiding Televue means I could get 3 premium EPs for the price of a Nagler or ethos.

[Deadlake]

2 hours ago, JeremyS said:

Good point about sky background and long FL/low mag eyepieces.I’m Bortle 4, but with the Tak TSA 120 I prefer the Nagler 26 as my lowest power as it a good balance of low power and darker background. 40mm doesn’t do it for me. The Nagler 31 is simply too heavy. Pentax XW 30 sounds like a good option but I’ve never used one.

Would it make a difference with a 40 mm 1.25” vs a 2” ep?

[JeremyS]

6 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Would it make a difference with a 40 mm 1.25” vs a 2” ep?

I was referring to 2”. FOV too small for 1.25”

[jetstream]

19 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Looking at the cost of Televue based EPs

I love them, bought them on sale and with our dollars at par- otherwise there would be no TVs here...

[John]

25 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Looking at the cost of Televue based EPs, I could own half of some of the EP collections on CN and have spare cash for a NV monocular and see so much more, the richest of richest field telescopes. Being late to the party has benefits...

Agreed. Tele Vue eyepieces are expensive. No escaping that. I bought all but two of mine used otherwise I would not be able to afford the ones I have. 

Luckily there are some excellent and less expensive options available these days

 

 

[Louis D]

55 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Would it make a difference with a 40 mm 1.25” vs a 2” ep?

Definitely.  A 40mm in a 1.25" has about a 43° AFOV vs 70° in a 2" eyepiece.  This equates to an enormous difference in TFOV.  Both will have the same exit pupil, so extended objects and the background sky will appear the same contrast-wise.

[Louis D]

59 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

What about the 24 mm ES-82? Avoiding Televue means I could get 3 premium EPs for the price of a Nagler or ethos.

I don't have one and have never looked through one due to the limited eye relief.  The 24mm APM UFF that I do have does have enough eye relief for eyeglass wearers and is reportedly just as well corrected.  Neither is as sharp edge to edge as the 24mm Panoptic reportedly.

Here's a 9 year old article that might be of interest to you, 24-26 mm Eyepiece Comparison, done by Bill Paolini before the existence of the 24mm APM UFF, 25mm BST Starguider, or 25mm Meade HD-60 (all three of which I do have).  Edge to edge sharpness isn't the only metric for determining which eyepiece is best for each object.

I do have the 27mm Panoptic.  It is also tight on usable eye relief for eyeglass wearers, but it is extremely sharp in the central 85% of the field, suffering a tiny bit of field curvature and astigmatism at the edge.  I retired mine in favor of the 30mm APM UFF without regrets.

[Louis D]

7 hours ago, jetstream said:

The 30mm Pentax XW has a very high reputation.

However, practically every report comparing it side by side with the 30mm APM UFF has declared the latter to be the clear winner.  It's a nearly 20 year newer design with two more lens elements and employs a novel telecompressor stage at the field lens end instead of a telenegative stage.

Here are images capture in daylight clearly showing the better edge correction of the latter:

30mm Pentax XW:

30mm APM UFF:

I bought into the hype of the greatness of the 40mm XW versus the 40mm Meade 5000 SWA and was "gifted" one for Christmas, but I found the latter to be slightly better corrected across the field despite costing me 1/3 as much.  The 2" Pentax XW designs are not the best corrected designs at their respective focal lengths.

[Deadlake]

APM prices are going up 5-15% from the start of March. The 20 mm will be going up the most. Delivery times will be a little slower as different courier who can navigate the border (handling, charges etc) is being used.

Thinking of getting:

1. APM 30mm Ultra Flat Field Eyepiece 70°
2. APM 20mm 100 Degree AFOV Eyepiece

Need to sort out a 25 mm now.
 

[Deadlake]

13 hours ago, John said:

Agreed. Tele Vue eyepieces are expensive. No escaping that. I bought all but two of mine used otherwise I would not be able to afford the ones I have. 

Luckily there are some excellent and less expensive options available these days

 

 

Given the cost of TeleVue, which ones would you buy and which ones would you buy another brand as you don't use them enough?

[John]

3 hours ago, Deadlake said:

APM prices are going up 5-15% from the start of March. The 20 mm will be going up the most. Delivery times will be a little slower as different courier who can navigate the border (handling, charges etc) is being used.

Thinking of getting:

1. APM 30mm Ultra Flat Field Eyepiece 70°
2. APM 20mm 100 Degree AFOV Eyepiece

Need to sort out a 25 mm now.
 

Why a 25mm ?

The 20 / 100 will show practically as much sky as the 30mm / 70. Personally I'm not sure that you need even both of those, let alone squeezing a 25mm in between them.

I've simulated the true fields below for my 12 inch F/5.3 dob. The 30 / 70 eyepiece is in red, the 20 / 100 in yellow:

[Deadlake]

9 minutes ago, John said:

Why a 25mm ?

The 20 / 100 will show practically as much sky as the 30mm / 70. Personally I'm not sure that you need even both of those, let alone squeezing a 25mm in between them.

I've simulated the true fields below for my 12 inch F/5.3 dob. The 30 / 70 eyepiece is in red, the 20 / 100 in yellow:

True. Here they (all the EP's I'm looking at now given the price rises) are on a 130/F6:

No other pro's and cons between the 20 and 30 mm? Field stop is around the same, whereas eye relief is more in the 30 mm. Would the 20 mm have more contrast?

Edited February 15, 2021 by Deadlake

[John]

2 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

True. Here they (all the EP's I'm looking at now given the price rises) are on a 130/F6:

No other pro's and cons between the 20 and 30 mm? 

The higher magnification will show DSO's better if you have some LP to contend with. Thats why I don't use my Nagler 31 very often compared with my Ethos 21.

The scope will handle a lot higher than 156x of course !