New family/child telescope

[radiocyclist]

Hi all,

Totally new here and new to astronomy, pretty much.

Many many years ago my parents bought me a telescope as a birthday present and initially it got loads of use but in time I struggled to find things and to know what to point the thing at / what I was looking at it got forgotten. I now find myself with a 10 year old daughter who is keen to discover the skies and we thought a telescope would be an awesome Christmas present. 

I have done some reading up / being confused and have, I think narrowed to a few options - and honestly I would really appreciate some advice if possible please! We live in the countryside with very little, if any, light pollution and a patio to set the telescope up on.

1. Sky-Watcher HERITAGE 150P Dobsonian - I understand this should be easy to set up once we learn to calibrate it. A 'dumb' scope I think with the value reflecting the optics. I wonder if the lack of dedicated app support as offered below would make it less user friendly - ie. an app to say 'spin this way till we say stop and you will see XXX' may be more engaging?

2. Celestron StarSense Explorer 127LT Newton Reflector - not too far off the above but with a guide app

3. Skywatcher Mercury 707 AZ-GTe SynScan WiFi GOTO - a refractor so perhaps less light/good imaging that the other 2 above but has the GOTO system to literally drive it to stuff. Worried re noise from reading some posts on here but also if it makes the process too easy perhaps our daughter will get as bored as if its too hard; ie. if you simply say show me X and it does you may as well google the picture?

Alot of thought going into this as is my wont but I would really appreciate any help and advice please!

Best,  Mark

[fifeskies]

The Heritage 150 will give you the best views, a lot of people have used this as a first scope.

It is very easy to set up and use, and a 10yo can get to the eyepiece very easily

You are very likely to only be initially going for the big wow targets like the Moon , Pleiades , Perseus double cluster , Orion nebula and whatever planets are around in particular Jupiter and its moons. (even though it is low in the sky this year).

These are easy to find with a Heritage using the finder you get with it, so lack of goto is not such a big deal.

 

At 10yo by the time you have done the round of the big bright easy to find objects you are probably getting near the end of attention span anyway.

 

There are plenty free smartphone apps to let you know what is worth a look in the sky.

With a bit of practise letting the app set you in the right place I am sure you could track these down with the finder then enjoy the view in the 150.

So there is room to expand what you look at.

 

Only issue about all this , is the fact that telescopes are having major supply problems due to COVID disrupting both manufacture and supply, you may struggle to find one in stock.

[DaveL59]

I'd seriously avoid the Celestron 127 reflector as the design won't be great (bird-jones). Also their LT scopes are on a quite wobbly mount, they work if you can accept it'll need settling time. The Starsense is pretty good, I do have the LT70AZ which is likely cheaper than your option-3? Again wobbly mount but it gived pleasant views with a better diagonal and eyepieces than those it comes with. The app just figures where it is pointed and tells you how to move the scope to find the target you chose and some details about it.

The LT80AZ is probably a better option being a larger lens than the LT70 (and the 707), alternatively the DX models should be fine but quite a step up in price. Best to budget for upgraded eyepieces and a better diagonal for the refractor models. I've used the SVbony 7-21mm zoom with the LT70 and it works well, as does the 8-24mm but this is huge and heavy so perhaps not ideal for this range of scope.

The 150P will outperform all given the larger aperture but as you say, finding stuff... That's why a few of us bought the starsense explorer model, to re-use the app with our better spec'd scopes, 😉 hence going after the LT70 for its low price.

[radiocyclist]

Thanks team - can I substitute an app from the Play or App store to get us some of the way to the starsense explorer app and that way make a 150P be the best of all worlds? I can actually find a 150P to buy as well as the Starsense mercury but the explorers are awaiting stock basically everywhere!

..now going to google a bird-jones.....!

[vlaiv]

I would advocate against using computerized scope.

A good book and thrill of hunting for object in the night sky should be plenty of incentive to keep the child occupied and excited.

You are lucky to live in the place where there is little light pollution. This means that refractor telescope is not out of the question as these have smaller apertures - less light gathering.

On the other hand - they look like "proper" scopes and are easy to handle and point. No need for collimation and are ready to be used straight out of the house (no need for lengthy acclimatization).

Main issue now is the stocks - they are quite low and many of popular scopes are out of stock and question is when they'll be available. There might even be supply issues all the way to Christmas.

What sort of budget are you planing for this?

[Gfamily]

I'd second the recommendation for the Heritage 150p. We have the very similar 130p scope, which is very well put together and gives very good results. 

Yes, look out for apps for your phone to work alongside it - Stellarium and Sky Safari are both very popular (personally, I prefer Stellarium, but YMMV). 

However, what I would really strongly suggest is that you get yourself a proper planisphere.  These are made up of two discs that allow you to match up the date and time and they will show you what is visible in the sky all in one go, so you can see how constellations relate to each other.

One thing that a planisphere does is show how the sky changes hour by hour across an evening, and also how it changes month by month across the year. 

You can often get one for less than £10 from places like The Works,  either by themselves or with a 'guide to the night sky', and they are really useful for learning your way around the night sky. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Gfamily

[radiocyclist]

upto £250 for a telescope as it will be us and grandparents pitching in. Any other ancillaries can be a combination of other family, sister, dog etc!

In stock I can deffo get the 150P. The StarSense Explorer LT80AZ is apparently coming into stock end of the week...? I would however take any other suggestions!

Thank you.

edit - and a planisphere is now deffo on the list!

Edited November 16, 2020 by radiocyclist

[DaveL59]

You can't use the starsense app without the code that comes with the scope but can download it, tho it'll be of limited use other than to prove your phone is supported. An alternative is SkEye which does something similar but without using the camera to confirm position based on the stars it sees. You would tho need a means to mount the camera on the scope so that it accurately follows the movement and that'd need some creative thinking:

 

 

[vlaiv]

I do agree that 150P is definitively a good scope - and most certainly best bang for the buck.

One of my favorite scopes is 8" dob scope, and nothing beats quiet nighttime session - only scope, stars and myself.

However, such scope is not without drawbacks. First is that you'll need to find a way to place it on something - it is sort of table top telescope. And that table better be stable. Which also means observing while standing.

I don't know how tall your daughter is - she might be able to use it while seated - placed on the floor - but remember, that scope is only 75mm focal length - so it can't be much larger than that. Eyepiece will likely be very low, even for a child (I'm not 100% certain of this).

Second issue is that focuser is not the best on that scope and it will require a bit of modding for best performance - PTFE tape trick (do google search on that).

Third issue is that one does not look along the line of sight of the scope - this makes it hard for novice users to orient themselves.

I would not worry about collimation much - such a small mirror is bound to hold collimation once it is properly set for months if not years.

Do have a look at video to see what sort of size we are talking about:

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by vlaiv

[Sunshine]

The 150P is a great little scope, you will both have fun for a long while with this scope.

[Tiny Clanger]

Somewhere on another thread I measured the extended 'scopes ground to eyepiece height in answer to a similar beginner/ child 'scope query. I use my heritage 150 on a short sturdy 3 legged table I made using scrap wood and 30cm long tubular metal legs . It saves me hauling my low garden table , which is cast iron and weighs a lot, around my bumpy lawn.  When Jupiter and Saturn were low in the sky in the summer, and it was convenient for me as an adult to have the 'scope on a taller platform, I stood the scope on one of those portable workbenches , a cheap copy of a black & decker workmate. I find both solutions are plenty steady enough.

The heritage 150 is 750mm focal  length , so will give less magnification than a longer focal length 'scope with the same eyepiece, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, as it means your field of view is greater. It is therefore easier to find your targets and keep them in view.

I do wonder if the goto facility is all that much of an advantage in engaging children (or adults for that matter) compared with some time spent doing background research on astronomy so when you show your child something, you can explain why the star is that colour, what M31 actually is, what is the difference between stars and planets , why does the Moon (and Venus ) look different shapes, how come the Moon has those craters  ...

[radiocyclist]

Hi team - thank you all so much for your help. I managed to track a heritage 150 having read all the above and watched the video review. It will be here in 2 days and then hidden ready for Christmas!

 

[Pixies]

15 hours ago, radiocyclist said:

Hi team - thank you all so much for your help. I managed to track a heritage 150 having read all the above and watched the video review. It will be here in 2 days and then hidden ready for Christmas!

 

Isn't Santa going to have to test it first?

[fifeskies]

2 hours ago, Pixies said:

Isn't Santa going to have to test it first?

He tried to test it but wasn't able to because of all the rain dear.

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, fifeskies said:

He tried to test it but wasn't able to because of all the rain dear.

Now, now, there is a proper topic for that sort of things:

 

[radiocyclist]

Hah - Santa has made a secondary web visit to FLO and bought the book, planisphere and a little red torch. I have downloaded a few apps including the one above and watched the DIY Astro vids relating to the scope. This is going to be amazing and I am sure she will love it!

You lot are awesome - thank you for your help so far. Sure there will be more questions to follow.