Moon & Mars Advice

[Liquidtravel]

Hello all.  I am brand new to star gazing and wanted to get some advice or thoughts on what I was experiencing on my first attempt using my scope.  I have a Celestron NexStar 8SE with a focus motor.  I was also using both a 25mm and 9mm eyepieces just to see the difference.  The moon was big and bright and so was mars.   I was only using manual tracking with my red dot finder as well manual focus.    

The one thing that was frustrating once I aligned my scope on either Mars or the moon was how fast they left the frame.  It didn't matter which eyepiece I was using it just seemed that they were only in the frame a few seconds.  The way it went down made me feel like my tracking was moving them off even though I was doing everything manually.  As I said, this was my first night out so I was trying to learn the telescope at the same time as observing.  So, once I would get the moon or mars in the frame, I would have to go to the hand controller, go to focuser, and then focus.  By the time I got to the right function,  Mars was long gone from the frame.  I would have to move Mars to the far edge of the frame to give myself enough time to get to the right function to be able to use it but I still didn't have enough time to get focus by the time it was gone.  The moon was much easier because it was so big but when I put it dead center, by the time I got it in focus, only a portion was still in view but at least it was in focus and then I could go back to tracking and move it back and it would still be in focus as well.  

Anyway, the moon was awesome.  Big, Bright and Clear.  

Sorry if this is not all clear.

[cletrac1922]

First of all welcome from Land Down Under

With the 9mm eyepiece, and scope not tracking, then will go out of focus very quickly

Did you do a two star alignment prior to going to Mars or the moon

With the moon, your 25mm eyepiece is ideal, as will fit in the whole moon, where using your 9mm will only get partial view

I use either a 15mm and 17mm for planets and other DSO with both my 10'' flex Dob, and ED80 on EQ5pro mount

You can also use a lunar filter to bring out more detail of the moon, and a red filter to highlight the polar caps on Mars

Mars is closest to earth on the 6th October, than it will be in the next 15 years

 

John

 

 

 

[toshapetriji]

It's normal for the the moon and planets to move out of the field of view quickly as you describe when manually tracking. Get the focus right first then with your eye at the eyepiece you should be able keep the target in the field of view with the controller. Adjust the slew rate to help make this easier.

 

Or align the telescope and let the tracking take care of it for you.

[johninderby]

Wide angle eyepieces are so usefull when observing without a driven mount. A good 82 degree eyepice keeps the moon or planet in view much longer and makes it nicer to use.

[Peter_D]

I have a 6SE. You can set up tracking on Solar System objects directly and it works really well. 

Just make sure..

- tripod is level. I set up the tripod first and use a triangular spirit level to ensure its level before attaching the SE mount and finally the optical tube.

- time is exactly right.

- Daylight savings is currently 'on'

Like I said, the tracking works fine and only occasionally would I need to re-tweek it manually while tracking (make sure to reduce the motor speed the telescope will move manually).

[Cosmic Geoff]

4 hours ago, toshapetriji said:

Or align the telescope and let the tracking take care of it for you.

Right.

And note there is a different tracking rate you can set for lunar observing.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Cosmic Geoff

[Starwatcher2001]

First step is to get your finder aligned:

- During the day, aim the main telescope tube at a something a few hundred yards away using the motors and your 25mm eyepiece.

- Adjust the knobs on your finder until it points to the exact same place as the main tube does.

- Put your 9mm eyepiece in, centre the object and re-adjust your finder until the two show the same thing in the centre.

- You should only have to do that once, but it's good practice to check it when you first set up. That way finding the first object is a cinch, even if you use "Go to" for the rest of them.

As previous posters have said, definitely get tracking going.

- Make sure the tripod is fairly level

- Hit 'ALIGN' from the main menu

- Press SCROLL DOWN a couple of times to get to "Solar System Align" and press ENTER.

- It will show current Time, Date and Zone. Press ENTER to say you want to amend that.

- Key in the current time. (24 hour clock)  ENTER

- Key in the date (USA format, month first) ENTER

- Use SCROLL to select your time zone. ENTER

- Select ENTER to select daylight saving.

Level the tube using the motors (I also aim mine due South). ENTER

- Use SCROLL until you find the Moon (or Mars)  ENTER

- Put your 25mm eyepiece in, and use the motors to find and centre the object. When you're there, hit ENTER. (That's called "Coarse Centering")

- Put your 9mm eyepiece in and do the same. You'll notice the motors move slower during this process. That's normal.

- Finally, Press ALIGN to tell it you're done (that was "Fine centering").

The scope should now track that object reasonably well.

Tips for using the Focus Motor

- Select MENU

- Scroll to the FOCUSER option, ENTER

- Scroll down a few times to get to Focus IN/OUT, ENTER

- Focus Speed = 3, ENTER

Now leave the handset as it is and start looking through the eyepiece.

You can still move the scope using the keypad, which you'll quickly learn to do by touch whilst looking through the eyepiece (the motor buttons feel different). To change the speed that the motors move you around, hit MOTOR SPEED (bottom right), and then a number. (I tend to just use 9,6,3, which are easily felt without looking).

You can also still change the focus using the scroll buttons - again by feel, once you get used to it. To change the focus speed, hit BACK (top right), and the 1, 2 or 3.

You can practice this during the day, and I promise you, within a few minutes you'll be able to do this with your eyes closed (except the bit where you look through the eyepiece 🤣)

Most importantly: enjoy yourself, and come back with any other questions you might have.

Mark

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Starwatcher2001
typo

[maw lod qan]

I use a manual DOB and it is frustrating how quickly what you are viewing moves through the FOV.

But even with that, isnt what you view wonderful?!!

[Liquidtravel]

On 29/09/2020 at 22:01, cletrac1922 said:

First of all welcome from Land Down Under

With the 9mm eyepiece, and scope not tracking, then will go out of focus very quickly

Did you do a two star alignment prior to going to Mars or the moon

With the moon, your 25mm eyepiece is ideal, as will fit in the whole moon, where using your 9mm will only get partial view

I use either a 15mm and 17mm for planets and other DSO with both my 10'' flex Dob, and ED80 on EQ5pro mount

You can also use a lunar filter to bring out more detail of the moon, and a red filter to highlight the polar caps on Mars

Mars is closest to earth on the 6th October, than it will be in the next 15 years

 

John

 

 

 

Hello John,  No, I not do any alignment.  I just got the scope a few days ago and just wanted to look at the moon.  I had not even gone through the manual yet.  I just wanted to check out the moon.  Now I am going through the manual and will properly set it all up.  I was just curious if what I was experiencing was normal for manual focus, no tracking.  thanks.  

[Liquidtravel]

On 30/09/2020 at 01:08, toshapetriji said:

It's normal for the the moon and planets to move out of the field of view quickly as you describe when manually tracking. Get the focus right first then with your eye at the eyepiece you should be able keep the target in the field of view with the controller. Adjust the slew rate to help make this easier.

 

Or align the telescope and let the tracking take care of it for you.

I was able to get the moon in focus and track it.  It was amazing how much detail I could see.  Mars was another story.  I was using too high a magnification eyepiece (9mm) and it was always gone before I could get it in focus.  Again, I was just excited and wanted to try out the scope before learning how to use the scope :).  I plan on aligning the scope and letting it track but again, just wanted to try it quickly. 

[Liquidtravel]

On 30/09/2020 at 10:06, Starwatcher2001 said:

 

Tips for using the Focus Motor

- Select MENU

- Scroll to the FOCUSER option, ENTER

- Scroll down a few times to get to Focus IN/OUT, ENTER

- Focus Speed = 3, ENTER

Now leave the handset as it is and start looking through the eyepiece.

You can still move the scope using the keypad, which you'll quickly learn to do by touch whilst looking through the eyepiece (the motor buttons feel different). To change the speed that the motors move you around, hit MOTOR SPEED (bottom right), and then a number. (I tend to just use 9,6,3, which are easily felt without looking).

You can also still change the focus using the scroll buttons - again by feel, once you get used to it. To change the focus speed, hit BACK (top right), and the 1, 2 or 3.

You can practice this during the day, and I promise you, within a few minutes you'll be able to do this with your eyes closed (except the bit where you look through the eyepiece 🤣)

Most importantly: enjoy yourself, and come back with any other questions you might have.

Mark

 

 

Thanks so much for this part Mark.  This is what was taking me the longest as I kept going all the way back in the menu system and then starting over each time. 

 

 

[Liquidtravel]

A question that comes to mind though.  Once my scope is aligned and setup properly, what happens if the tracking pad gets bumped and the scope is moved.  Do you have to realign?

[Starwatcher2001]

Unfortunately you do. Bit of a pain to be honest, especially if you need to move the scope around the garden to see something previously hidden by trees etc.

You don't have to do the finder alignment bit each time though.

[Liquidtravel]

On 30/09/2020 at 10:06, Starwatcher2001 said:

Tips for using the Focus Motor

- Select MENU

- Scroll to the FOCUSER option, ENTER

- Scroll down a few times to get to Focus IN/OUT, ENTER

- Focus Speed = 3, ENTER

Now leave the handset as it is and start looking through the eyepiece.

You can still move the scope using the keypad, which you'll quickly learn to do by touch whilst looking through the eyepiece (the motor buttons feel different). To change the speed that the motors move you around, hit MOTOR SPEED (bottom right), and then a number. (I tend to just use 9,6,3, which are easily felt without looking).

You can also still change the focus using the scroll buttons - again by feel, once you get used to it. To change the focus speed, hit BACK (top right), and the 1, 2 or 3.

------------------

 

On 30/09/2020 at 10:06, Starwatcher2001 said:

Hello Mark,  

I was trying your suggestion above but it was not working for me.  If I am tracking, I have to go to the "focuser" in the menu system right?  I could not do it otherwise.  When I was setting it all up, I tried to manually track and focus and again, I could not do both at the same time, I had to go to "focuser" to focus and back all the way out to move the scope.  Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong?

 

On 30/09/2020 at 10:06, Starwatcher2001 said:

 

 

 

 

[Starwatcher2001]

I wonder if you're on a different version of the software. I'm using the StarSense handset and I think you're using the NexStar handset. I thought they were both the same, in terms of how the focuser and motor controls work.

Okay, let's try an experiment. Do can do this during the day of course, no need to lose valuable observing time.

1. Get everything plugged in and running. No need to do any alignment.

2. Press MENU, FOCUSER, MOVE IN/OUT, RATE = 3.

At this point you should be seeing this screen. Is that right?

 

3. You should be able to press the SCROLL buttons to move the focus. Nothing will change on the display, except the POSITION value.

 

4. Now without touching anything else, just try pressing one of the MOVEMENT keys and see what happens.

On mine, the scroll display stays on the screen, but I also get an inverse number in thr top right of the display telling me the speed the motor is slewing. The telescope moves.

 

5. On mine as long as I don't go to another menu option, I can press the MOVEMENT keys to move the scope, and SCROLL buttons to focus, all day long. In fact I can press both at once and the telescope and focus move at the same time. I can also hit "MOTOR SPEED" followed by a number key to change the speed at which the telescope moves.

6. On mine, I can be almost anywhere in any menu, and the MOVEMENT keys will always work, slewing at whatever rate I previously set. Does yours behave like that?

 

7. If you're getting different behaviour, it might be down to a different version of software on your handset.

You can find this out with MENU, HAND CONTROLLER, GET VERSION INFO

There's more information on that screen if you hit the SCROLL DOWN button. (The arrow in the top right gives you a clue about that).

You can find out about software versions here:  https://www.celestron.com/pages/firmware-update-history

Before you go down the track of updating the handset's firmware (which can be a bit chewy), find out (a) what version you are on, and (b) if a newer version of the NexStar software adds this feature as it does on StarSense handsets. It's generally not a good idea to upgrade unless there's a feature or bugfix that you need.

Cheers,

Mark

[Liquidtravel]

8 hours ago, Starwatcher2001 said:

I wonder if you're on a different version of the software. I'm using the StarSense handset and I think you're using the NexStar handset. I thought they were both the same, in terms of how the focuser and motor controls work.

Okay, let's try an experiment. Do can do this during the day of course, no need to lose valuable observing time.

1. Get everything plugged in and running. No need to do any alignment.

2. Press MENU, FOCUSER, MOVE IN/OUT, RATE = 3.

At this point you should be seeing this screen. Is that right?

 

3. You should be able to press the SCROLL buttons to move the focus. Nothing will change on the display, except the POSITION value.

 

4. Now without touching anything else, just try pressing one of the MOVEMENT keys and see what happens.

On mine, the scroll display stays on the screen, but I also get an inverse number in thr top right of the display telling me the speed the motor is slewing. The telescope moves.

 

5. On mine as long as I don't go to another menu option, I can press the MOVEMENT keys to move the scope, and SCROLL buttons to focus, all day long. In fact I can press both at once and the telescope and focus move at the same time. I can also hit "MOTOR SPEED" followed by a number key to change the speed at which the telescope moves.

6. On mine, I can be almost anywhere in any menu, and the MOVEMENT keys will always work, slewing at whatever rate I previously set. Does yours behave like that?

 

7. If you're getting different behaviour, it might be down to a different version of software on your handset.

You can find this out with MENU, HAND CONTROLLER, GET VERSION INFO

There's more information on that screen if you hit the SCROLL DOWN button. (The arrow in the top right gives you a clue about that).

You can find out about software versions here:  https://www.celestron.com/pages/firmware-update-history

Before you go down the track of updating the handset's firmware (which can be a bit chewy), find out (a) what version you are on, and (b) if a newer version of the NexStar software adds this feature as it does on StarSense handsets. It's generally not a good idea to upgrade unless there's a feature or bugfix that you need.

Cheers,

Mark

ok, thanks so much for taking the time.  Just so you know, I am on a NexStar+ Hand Controller.  I went ahead and checked for any firmware updates prior to doing this experiment and I am on HC 5.31.9200/ MC 5.14 5.14 so I think I am good to go, although I am not sure if there are firmware updates for the focus motor itself.  Also, I went ahead and calibrated my focus motor even though I did it just a few days ago and the calibration was successful.  

 

Steps, 

1. Press MENU

2. Selected FOCUSER

3. Selected MOVE IN/OUT

4. Selected RATE = 3

Now, here is where we differ.  Once I press "enter" at the RATE=3 screen, there are differences in what my screen shows and what is shown in your first picture.   In your first picture, it displays MOVE (Scroll Key) on the top line and then POSITION: 6596 on the second line.  On my screen, it displays Move In/ Out on the top line and then Position on the second line.  There is no number displayed after the word Position like in your picture.  Now having said that, I can use the scroll up/down keys and change focus but I can't use the directional keys to move the scope. 

When I am at this point - showing "Move In/ Out" on the top line and then "Position" on the second line, the only buttons that will work are the scroll up/ down buttons to change focus.  I can't even change motor speed.  The only way to do that is to get out of the focuser menu. 

But, there is another option inside of the Focus Menu called "Move To".  This screen looks a lot more like your picture Top line - Move To, Bottom line - Position: 29633.  Here I can use the directional keys, but, I have to input a specific point of focus.  That might work when I figure out what a good point of focus is but even still, I can't adjust focus using this screen.  I can only input a variable. On this screen however, I can change the motor speed.  

Very odd, it seems like these 2 hand controllers are slightly different.  Even how I get to the Firmware version I am using is different.  I have to go to Utilities and then Version.  Your suggestion may not be possible with my hand controller even though you would think everyone would want that ability.  

 

Am I missing anything?

[Starwatcher2001]

Aw rats. It does look like the handsets have different software. Sorry mate, I don't think you're missing anything.

Looking at the relevant updates for StarSense and NexStar:

StarSense
    1.19.19003     January-2019     Support for Motorized Focuser
    1.20.20162     July-2020         We rearranged some of the top menus more quickly, but it will be more obvious that slow booting accessories like GPS and the SSA Camera are still active in the background.
    1.20.20244     September-2020     Feature: added Peripheral menu similar to NS+ for mounts like Evolution     
    
NexStar+
    5.30.8333     January-2019     Support for Motorized Focuser.    
    5.31.9200     August-2019     Patch : account for additional modules, including those that failed after April 6th. 

So you're definitely on the highest level of software for the NexStar+. That hasn't been updated since August last year. In the last two updates to StarSense they've done some work on the menus. It's likely that they are waiting to see if there's any further issues with this, and will hopefully port the changes to NexStar in the coming months.

It looks like the Focus Motor does have internal software, as the latest one is mentioned as 7.16.9300. It's worth upgrading that, but I can't imagine that has anything to do with the menu system, and there's no mention of changes to that in their notes. They do seem to update the handsets quite regularly, so keep your eye out for a newer release. I can imagine how awkward it is to try to use the Focus Motor as you are having to do. It sounds pretty poor from Celestron to be honest.

I've never had much success with the "goto position" feature. Despite carefully noting the focus positions of various eyepieces, it only gets you in the ball park. Even with the same eyepiece, slight differences in the angle of the diagonal, position of the eyepiece and of course the state of the atmosphere are always going to mean you'll have to tweak the focus slighty to get that star sharp.

Cheers,

Mark