Bresser 10" + Baader Hyperion Zoom + Baader 2.25x Barlow

[orions_boot]

Good evening all,

I have re-ignited my interest in astronomy that I used to have as a kid, except now I can buy what ever I need to crack on with it.

I have spent many hours reading this forum for help on getting a new setup sorted out.  I think I have got to the bottom of it however I wonder if the configuration is OTT in terms of the eye piece.  I figure that if I buy a decent scope I need equally decent bits to go with it.  I have got my head around zoom limits and on that basis it seems the setup could have too much zoom that it is not worth it.  I wish I had it all now, having realised my garden faces south in to mostly blackness away from the light pollution and I had Jupiter and Saturn out there for at least 2 hours with Mars coming round the corner

Any input please on this configuration greatly received.  I won't spend any more than the total cost of the below at the moment:

 

Bresser Messier 10"

Collimation Cap

Baader Hyperion Zoom EP

Variable polarising moon filter

Baader 2.25x Barlow for Hyperion Zoom

 

 

 

 

[johninderby]

 

As an alternative the Hyperflex zoom is very nearly as good as the Baader one and so much cheaper. A real bargain. It’s the one I use.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ovl-eyepieces/hyperflex-72mm-215mm-eyepiece.html

And this barlow.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlow-eyepieces/baader-classic-q-225x-barlow.html

 

Would leave the money for another thing this scope really needs. A right angle erect image finder is so much easier to use and will save your back.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/astro-essentials-9x50-right-angled-erecting-finderscope.html

And a new finder shoe to replace the Bresser one. The cheaper Skywatcher finder shoe won’t fit as the mounting holes are to close together.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/baader-universal-quick-release-finder-shoe-base.html

One other thing to get when you can is the dual speed upgrade for the focuser.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes/bresser-messier-1-10-gear-set-for-hex-focuser.html

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by johninderby

[orions_boot]

Hi

Thank you for replying so promptly.

Can you please tell me why I would need a different shoe?  IS that it not all scopes fit on to the supplied one or is it rubbish?

With the zoom you linked I can see it would save me a lot but I don't want to necessarily upgrade the things I am buying.  In your experience is that zoom here to stay or are you looking to upgrade?

[johninderby]

Bresser uses a different shoe, not the standard “Synta” type fitting used by just about eeryone else. Just about impossible to find a replaceent finder  with the Besser fitting. Seems that all finders supplied with scopes are poor.

I’ve had a Baader zoom and yes it is good but won’t be replacing the Hyperflex anytime soon.. Just not enough of an improvement to make it worth while.

I certainly wouldn’t buy a new Baader zoom as they come up second hand for about £100.00 or just over often enough.

Edited September 10, 2020 by johninderby

[orions_boot]

Thanks for this enlightening info.  I have read about having to drill new holes when buying a new shoe.  I take it the one you have identified will go straight in?  I don't want to drill anything!

[johninderby]

The Baader shoe isn’t cheap but is a straight bolt on replacement.

The Bresser doesn’t need much in the way of mods.

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by johninderby

[Pixies]

10 minutes ago, orions_boot said:

Thanks for this enlightening info.  I have read about having to drill new holes when buying a new shoe.  I take it the one you have identified will go straight in?  I don't want to drill anything!

Hi.

I took John's advise with my 8" Bresser. That shoe he suggests (the Baader) doesn't need drilling. There are 2 types that come with the Bresser - one has 4 holes, the other 2. The Baader shoe fits either. Obviously with the 4 holed variety, you'll have some holes to plug.

I found that I had to source some new bolts, to avoid having to use ones that would protrude to far into the tube. Are you in the UK? If so, I have plenty of spares if you feel you want to try different sized bolts.

[Pixies]

I ended up using just a single bolt/nut using the centre fixing hole. I have spare countersunk bolts/nuts if you want any. As I had 4 holes, I covered up the other two with the Telrad base. The remaining hole has been covered with a white plastic furniture plug.

 

[Pixies]

The finder/shoe supplied with the Bresser dobs is the one drawback with this scope. It wouldn't be a problem if there were suitable decent finders and mounts that would fit, but there is very limited choice - esp if you are looking for a RACI finder.

Explore Scientific finder will fit though.

[johninderby]

The Telrad base will fit inbetween the focuser and the Baader shoe using both bolt holes with a minor bit of triming to the Telrad base.

 

I’ve found these useful for covering up holes. Get the white gloss ones.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FULL-SHEET-Self-adhesive-decorative-screw-cover-caps-20-colours-14mm-or-20mm/264009851818?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3d7836a3aa:g:y6wAAOSwU8hY48QF&enc=AQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkXKoKcbeZcOrOku%2BoOBl%2BS0No7sCK%2B4N88d6mZ%2FMkuZ7Wo3tAk7y6Uh5Ima3lB3E6%2FHFpjjTvLfDg%2FdrAygj9gYk4X9R%2BOuVTwpkPRqBybbIwj0N%2FO0sX%2BCkiWi0Vu8fVd2bIaiPTzcCp3kcgPPJNkXaYju12FJVMjYl%2BYNPB4Bz4BHERvqFJGR2w23ETTtKWSWkDGi6jzelA5iOVmAUW33WPw7h9Ssr8d7va5tJdDjOue%2FcD%2B99vEt2rSdgGPbl8FkjvVA5ElZ%2FibzXOWC5UXNv55nbTEaWvnxZQZmkecQChTkOyMS697WIfAdx1MjkUWNv5R2CJyIP3jTkp9EcAQCMl4PgKq9CGz7qeQrO1OIGrUywj%2BmgmmeGNA8Zb5L2i9wn4KHyE6pgEMYsfopCXGw%2FrGkwnw7ihtQlxU7ciedd3ygZJCoiQNEfAArGiri%2F7gantVdGjDJn0xKdq%2BNrtpPMkTaxOSRk2UrfA6Y2e5KXwgigfFtJ0OMTJFeOjWoKNIfDq1NEIVvNEdgCQSmQjbmkGFEqJjb0Egas6RqRDUnObwWhrStfIZr6niFLCU8IVSxzJSm%2BXoWPZ104eaQUClV0cit6WkpVEa7Mt%2B5V3%2FqKdlSmYxGr%2B195UIef2j9VlD%2FlrI6xF3YCNgN2DLesAZLn2FxaIO7D%2BDfPrQ%2Bb4UGSZBVi9QxwIKcq3e7ySq%2Fah1ltb73FgF33gSHBFyCMQ23HPBTARqwcAupo464NRMTOAFT4PZ3GmrTq48h04t7qz41dM9b98eP5MXKpXmW8M4DQPSQ90cmzdHMxZ2C3SZDA%3D&checksum=264009851818dcd451433e0a4f68a89ba0f5e7398232

Edited September 10, 2020 by johninderby

[johninderby]

The Explore  Scientific RACI finder. Eeeek. 🙀🙀🙀

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/explore-scientific-8x50-illuminated-finder-scope.html

[orions_boot]

Thanks for all your help.  After 4 days of researching I have finally pushed the button!

[johninderby]

Nice one 👍🏻

Have they given you an expected delivery date?

Edited September 10, 2020 by johninderby

[Pixies]

9 minutes ago, johninderby said:

The Explore  Scientific RACI finder. Eeeek. 🙀🙀🙀

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/explore-scientific-8x50-illuminated-finder-scope.html

I know. And the 'RACI' version is actually a polar finder with a polar reticule, rather than a cross-hair.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/explore-scientific-8x50-90-degree-polarfinder-amici-prism.html

[orions_boot]

58 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Nice one 👍🏻

Have they given you an expected delivery date?

FLO says 30-40 days and the manufacturer tells me scopes will be ready end Sept/beginning Oct.

[johninderby]

Yes I had heard October availability. 

Will be worth the wait though. 🙂

Edited September 10, 2020 by johninderby

[Pixies]

Exciting. Like an early Christmas!

I can recommend a book called "Turn Left at Orion". It'll be worth getting this in advance and having a good old read before your scope arrives. Basic info on astronomy, plus star-hopping advice and details of what to observe at different times of the year.

I might suggest something to consider regarding you other purchases. A collimation cap is a good tool for collimating your scope, but it has some limitations. One of which is the difficulty in making sure the secondary mirror is aligned correctly under the focuser.  Fortunately, this step is rarely required. Unfortunately, it'll likely be required when the scope arrives! It is a LOT easier to do this with a Cheshire collimator, so you might want to investigate this before the scope arrives - you have plenty of time.

[orions_boot]

I have seen the Rigel quick finder and wondered - would that also need a different kind of fitting to attach?

[johninderby]

40 minutes ago, orions_boot said:

I have seen the Rigel quick finder and wondered - would that also need a different kind of fitting to attach?

The Quikfinder base just sticks to the tube although the supplied two sided tape doesn’t hold well enough. You can use  Gorilla two seied tape or siicone sealer to stick the base on.

I replaced mine with a Telrad whch I find easier to use.

Edited September 10, 2020 by johninderby

[Pixies]

@Stardaze, another 10" Bresser dob owner, had issues with his Quikfinder - not just the fixing of it.

They use glue-tape to fix onto the tubes. The Telrads have 3M tape which is very sticky and won't come off in a hurry. As John says, there have been some complaints about the tape used on the Quikfinders but this was fixed by using decent tape like 3M or Gorilla tape.

With the Telrad, you stick the base onto the tube, and the actual finder is fixed to the base using a pair of thumbscrews.

[Stardaze]

4 hours ago, Pixies said:

@Stardaze, another 10" Bresser dob owner, had issues with his Quikfinder - not just the fixing of it.

They use glue-tape to fix onto the tubes. The Telrads have 3M tape which is very sticky and won't come off in a hurry. As John says, there have been some complaints about the tape used on the Quikfinders but this was fixed by using decent tape like 3M or Gorilla tape.

With the Telrad, you stick the base onto the tube, and the actual finder is fixed to the base using a pair of thumbscrews.

You'll love the Bresser dob,  @johninderby should be taking commission from them 😆

I wasn't happy with the build of the Quikfinder, there were marks all over the perspex screen, which in practice, you wouldn't see, but just looked poor to me. Love the Telrad. They're an old trusted design so very bulky, but does what it needs to. I also changed the shoe to the Baader one and upgraded the finder scope to the SW 9x50 RACI which simply has to be done. I actually still haven't added the dual focuser, so I wouldn't say that's totally necessary to begin with as you'll probably develop an eyepiece 'habit' if you're anything like me, that will wreak havoc on your overall budget. The modifications are part of the fun owning a dob, there always seems to be something. I will add the dual focuser at some point.

[John]

When I had a Bresser 127L refractor it had this type of finder shoe on the scope:

I replaced it with a Skywatcher compatible finder shoe that was designed for SCT scopes which looked like this:

The replacement used the same bolts and holes that the original Bresser one had used so no drilling needed.

I think the above finder shoe costs around £10 if you can find one.

I might still have it knocking around somewhere

 

 

[Stardaze]

I should have also added that I used one of the existing holes for the Baader shoe, in the centre. Here's the pic of mine so you can see the screw left in-between the Telrad and RACI.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Stardaze

[orions_boot]

Do you still need a right angle finder if using a telrad or quick finder?  I was getting some funny looks across the room at the price of everything so I took a short cut and started with the quick finder which is better than half the price.  I have read a lot of people saying they never used a scope again since they started with one.

[Stardaze]

16 minutes ago, orions_boot said:

Do you still need a right angle finder if using a telrad or quick finder?  I was getting some funny looks across the room at the price of everything so I took a short cut and started with the quick finder which is better than half the price.  I have read a lot of people saying they never used a scope again since they started with one.

You could get by but.. I find a Telrad/Quikfinder to be great for obvious larger targets, but whilst star hopping with them they're a bit clunky for fine tuning. IMO A RACI drills into an area nicely. The supplied one will get you by, but a RACI is far more intuitive. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Stardaze