Mount for VX12

[turboscrew]

I've been planning of getting an EQ mount for my OrionOpticcs VX12. I wonder if CEM70 would be enough for occasional photography, or should I weep and go for the (much more expensive) CEM120?

The VX12 is this (not the 'L'-version): https://www.orionoptics.co.uk/VX/vx12-12l.html

 

[NGC 1502]

It’s generally thought that stated mount capacity is often optimistic.  Astrophotography is more demanding on mount choice than for visual.

The shorter version of your VX12 should be a bit less taxing on the mount, but best to bite the bullet and go for fully adequate rather than just about adequate.

Ed.

 

 

[Nigella Bryant]

Hi, I too have an Orion optics f4 12inch Newtonian and interested in eventually getting a new mount for it. I too do imaging and my set up tops 20kg. If I understand correctly for AP you need two thirds weight capacity meaning a mount capacity of at least 30kg. This in practice fits the new Cem70, but only just. I'd be looking at the Cem120 or EQ8 to be honest and be a little more future proof. I've used it with a Neq6 but that's at full capacity and not ideal. My Neq6 currently has my C11 attached so not so demanding. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Nigella Bryant
Pic added

[Waldemar]

The thing with big telescopes like this is that they act like a sail, which causes a lot more strain to the mount than the relatively low weight.
In a shielded environment like an observatory it won't be a very big issue, but less shielded or not at all, you will need a strong mount that is capable of correcting the effects of wind gusts. I think Nigella is on the right track with CEM120 or EQ8 and maybe those are still on the edge...

[turboscrew]

OK. Basically CEM120 is the minimum, really - in open, but less windy field? And CEM70 would be enough, roughly, only  if there are walls around to protect the whole from winds?

Actually my yard is quite protected from winds by trees on my neighbours properties. The trees also act as a safe guard keeping me from trying to see objects below 30°.

(Well, there are some "holes in the barrier" allowing me to see even downto about 20°)

[turboscrew]

6 hours ago, Nigella Bryant said:

Hi, I too have an Orion optics f4 12inch Newtonian and interested in eventually getting a new mount for it. I too do imaging and my set up tops 20kg. If I understand correctly for AP you need two thirds weight capacity meaning a mount capacity of at least 30kg. This in practice fits the new Cem70, but only just. I'd be looking at the Cem120 or EQ8 to be honest and be a little more future proof. I've used it with a Neq6 but that's at full capacity and not ideal. My Neq6 currently has my C11 attached so not so demanding. 

BTW, since CEM120 has Losmandy style attachment, do you know which dovetail is needed? I'm thinking about the length.

https://www.orionoptics.co.uk/ACCESSORIES/attachmentplates.html

 

[Nigella Bryant]

2 hours ago, turboscrew said:

BTW, since CEM120 has Losmandy style attachment, do you know which dovetail is needed? I'm thinking about the length.

https://www.orionoptics.co.uk/ACCESSORIES/attachmentplates.html

 

I put a new 350mm losmandy dovetail plate on mine.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Nigella Bryant

[Bukko]

Another happy VX12 owner here...

Successfully ran the scope on an NEQ6 for many years, with the belt drive mod fitted after a few years. But mine was in a dome so wind not a problem and also used an OAG to manage drift.

The main drive cogs in the NEQ6 are only 90mm in diameter - the CEM70 is around 150mm so giving a whole lot more suppport than that from the NEQ6. They are also engaged with full contact throughout the axis rotation, unlike the NEQ6. And has a belt drive as standard too.

I am also looking at a replacement for the NEQ6 (actually worn out) and place the CEM70 as the best option for me. For an eternity, I procrastinated over the CEM60 until it went out of production. No concerns about capability, just too much else to do.

For the VX12, I would say the CEM120 was overkill but in terms of cost per kg of payload, is better value. Where you have windbreaks, I am not sure there would be a big advantage with the 120, certainly compared to having a nice guide system...

Good luck with your choice.

Gordon.

[Waldemar]

6 minutes ago, Bukko said:

Another happy VX12 owner here...

Successfully ran the scope on an NEQ6 for many years, with the belt drive mod fitted after a few years. But mine was in a dome so wind not a problem and also used an OAG to manage drift.

The main drive cogs in the NEQ6 are only 90mm in diameter - the CEM70 is around 150mm so giving a whole lot more suppport than that from the NEQ6. They are also engaged with full contact throughout the axis rotation, unlike the NEQ6. And has a belt drive as standard too.

I am also looking at a replacement for the NEQ6 (actually worn out) and place the CEM70 as the best option for me. For an eternity, I procrastinated over the CEM60 until it went out of production. No concerns about capability, just too much else to do.

For the VX12, I would say the CEM120 was overkill but in terms of cost per kg of payload, is better value. Where you have windbreaks, I am not sure there would be a big advantage with the 120, certainly compared to having a nice guide system...

Good luck with your choice.

Gordon.

I think there is no such thing as 'overkill' when mounts are concerned, especially not when imaging comes into play...
 

 

On 04/09/2020 at 18:26, turboscrew said:

I've been planning of getting an EQ mount for my OrionOpticcs VX12. I wonder if CEM70 would be enough for occasional photography, or should I weep and go for the (much more expensive) CEM120?

The VX12 is this (not the 'L'-version): https://www.orionoptics.co.uk/VX/vx12-12l.html

 

Your occasional imaging will probably change into serious imaging, once you get into a succes mode with it... 

[Bukko]

1 hour ago, Waldemar said:

I think there is no such thing as 'overkill' when mounts are concerned, especially not when imaging comes into play...
 

 

Your occasional imaging will probably change into serious imaging, once you get into a succes mode with it... 

With an unlimited budget, you can keep on going forever - my point was the 70 would be more than adequate for the VX12, even for long exposure imaging... There is plenty of growing room with the 70 and it is light enough to be portable. The 120 is getting big and heavy.

Removing the price constraint would see us all owning observatory class mounts "just in case". (you with the DDM85 and my ME2 being good examples)

Aperture fever for mounts perhaps..

At the end of the day, it is the budget of the OP that will decide..

Gordon.

[Waldemar]

Owning also an iOptron mount, the iEQ45Pro, I know in spite of the fact that I am very pleased with it, the load bearing number is a bit optimistic, so I assume that is the case for the 70 as well. 50% for imaging (rule of thumb for this class mount) of the quoted number leaves you with 35-40 lbs for imaging. For a big scope like the one mentioned, that leaves just a very little safety margin especially in not not well shielded circumstances. 

Of course you absolutely right, it is the OP who has to decide on this, for us it is easy talking...

[turboscrew]

It's just that the mounts are quite expensive. So I can't afford to put 1000€ more for "just in case", but even less I can afford almost as expensive mount that's almost usable.

I guess CEM70 is so new that there is not much experience of it's limits in real use yet. Even the reviews mostly seem to echo the marketing material.

 

 

[Stu]

Is the AZEQ6 worth considering if your imaging is only going to be occasional? Az mode is much more convenient for visual as the eyepiece remains at the same orientation, then you could switch to EQ mode for imaging? Just a though. Pretty capable mounts too.

[turboscrew]

Hmm, how does that work? Is it still 18 kg for imaging in EQ mode? I've seen that I really want a tracking mount and stop loosing the objects while changing eyepieces. My dobson is not that smooth in any case, so I think EQ would be good even if quite expensive.

Hmm, in the instruction manual linked in the page, it says that the payload is 20 kg??? And it says the same on Sky-Watcher's page.

I was originally thinking about EQ6-R, but it, too, has too low load capacity.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by turboscrew

[Nigella Bryant]

1 hour ago, turboscrew said:

Hmm, how does that work? Is it still 18 kg for imaging in EQ mode? I've seen that I really want a tracking mount and stop loosing the objects while changing eyepieces. My dobson is not that smooth in any case, so I think EQ would be good even if quite expensive.

Hmm, in the instruction manual linked in the page, it says that the payload is 20 kg??? And it says the same on Sky-Watcher's page.

I was originally thinking about EQ6-R, but it, too, has too low load capacity.

 

 

All those mount's would be working at full capacity, similar to my Neq6, although my Neq6 has been modded with belt drives. Also not future proof if you get aperture fever, lol. I'd still be looking at the CEM120 or EQ8 as a minimum new mount for my f4 00 12inch Newtonian even though I've successfully used it for AP on the belt driven Neq6.

[turboscrew]

5 minutes ago, Nigella Bryant said:

All those mount's would be working at full capacity, similar to my Neq6, although my Neq6 has been modded with belt drives. Also not future proof if you get aperture fever, lol. I'd still be looking at the CEM120 or EQ8 as a minimum new mount for my f4 00 12inch Newtonian even though I've successfully used it for AP on the belt driven Neq6.

I think you have at least some experience with VX12 on NEQ6. What did you discover?

I think I'll follow your lead...

 

[Astrid]

Same topic, but a different example. I know people using a 150p that weighs 4.2 kg on an EQ3-2 that supports only 5kg and doing astrophotography just fine (even though adding a camera, coma corrector, barlow, piggyback etc the poor mount works at 7-8kg). I have currently kind of the same problem with overloaded mounts and I saw a post saying that using a steel tripod instead of an aluminium tripod might help. I'm almost sure though that overloading it might lead to a shorter lifespan... 

Whatsoever, I know that for AP it is recommend that your OTA and setup weighs 1/2 of the mount's max capacity.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Astrid

[Nigella Bryant]

3 minutes ago, turboscrew said:

I think you have at least some experience with VX12 on NEQ6. What did you discover?

I think I'll follow your lead...

 

The belt mod certainly improved things, but even in my dome if it's quite windy it does wobble the image. Only ever noticed that once however but suggests it's not ideal. The Neq6 is great with my C11 XLT carbon tube. It track's well with both telescope's and goto puts the object on the imaging chip but doesn't put it in the center. It's easily operates via cart de ceil so I don't use the hand controller. 

[turboscrew]

Well, my yard is somewhat well "hidden" from the winds, but I don't have dome, or any kinds of walls, so I think I should go with CEM120. It would be quite a hit to realize, that I had spent almost as much money to something else that is not quite adequate.

(Searching for tissues...)

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by turboscrew

[Waldemar]

1 hour ago, turboscrew said:

Well, my yard is somewhat well "hidden" from the winds, but I don't have dome, or any kinds of walls, so I think I should go with CEM120. It would be quite a hit to realize, that I had spent almost as much money to something else that is not quite adequate.

(Searching for tissues...)

 

 

again: buy once, cry once...