Question about bino collimation

[WJC]

Having ONE image—instead of TWO—MAY indicate a binocular is collimated without presenting eyestrain. Or, it COULD be indicating that the bino is within the user’s range of SPATIAL ACCOMMODATION and is in conditional alignment, only! This MAY or MAY NOT lead to annoyance to discomfort, depending on the level of misalignment. Your brain can only help you so far.

Currently, 100% of the “collimation tips” I’ve seen posted on the Internet ... ARE WRONG, in that you don’t take the AXLE into consideration! They make the poster look like a sage but take the observer farther from technically accurate information about the project.

When the error is small—when the bino is going to have ONE user, or others with the same IPD—conditional alignment may be all that is needed. One the other hand ...

A shameless plug for my books:

BINOCULARS: Fallacy & Fact (pps 86-124)

Understanding& Achieving 3-Axis Collimation (the whole book)

 Bill

William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USN Ret.

Edited September 27, 2020 by WJC

[markse68]

8 minutes ago, WJC said:

Having ONE image—instead of TWO—MAY indicate a binocular is collimated without presenting eyestrain. Or, it COULD be indicating that the bino is within the user’s range of SPATIAL ACCOMMODATION and is in conditional alignment, only! This MAY or MAY NOT lead to annoyance to discomfort, depending on the level of misalignment. Your brain can only help you so far.

 

Currently, 100% of the “collimation tips” I’ve seen posted on the Internet ... ARE WRONG, in that you don’t take the AXLE into consideration! They make the poster look like a sage but take the observer farther from technically accurate information about the project.

 

When the error is small—when the bino is going to have ONE user, or others with the same IPD—conditional alignment may be all that is needed. One the other hand ...

 

A shameless plug for my books:

 

BINOCULARS: Fallacy & Fact (pps 96-124)

 

Understanding& Achieving 3-Axis Collimation (the whole book)

 

 Bill

 

 

 

William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USN Ret.

 

It’s very difficult to get perfect alignment in all ipds though without a proper collimation machine? With the sun method I think if you’re careful to get the projected dots symmetrical to the shadow of the bins on the target then it’s going to be fairly close. Incidentally, the collimation method on the Zephyr has got to be the best and easiest to adjust of all! American engineering genius in those bins I reckon 👍

Mark

ps i’d like to read your book

Edited September 27, 2020 by markse68

[WJC]

Hi, Mark,

"Perfect collimation" is a misnomer that will change with changes in temperature and humidity. "Perfect for all PRACTICAL purposes" is much more accurate. I've collimated something over 12,000 binos and have performed the latter that many times. I have NEVER performed the prior. I must leave that to the armchair technicians. I have praised Rafael's sun method many times. I think he has done great work for the craft. But, at 31 pages—and depending on a moving sun, clouds, and the onset of evening—it can hardly be used in a professional setting. My collimator is comforting to have. But with an auxiliary telescope (attached) a target at a mile and a rigid mount for the binocular can reduce the verbiage to manageable.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[MrZuiko]

Hi Mark thanks fella they need a good clean,that armour has years of dust but OMG what were you thinking 😱 would even attempt to strip them down! I don't think the seller knew what he had or what they sell for,the only pairs I've seen on fleabay cost £226 + £60 p&p from the US and they had no armour and were beaten up and the latest versions retail new between £600 and £900 😬. Does anyone here know how to take the armour off as I would like to see the rest of the binocular as I've only lifted the piece that covers the shoulder where it says Nikon 7.3.

I don't want to take the chance and ruin them coz when it gets cold they armour will come into it's own!

Clear skies all.

Ash.

 

[markse68]

 

30 minutes ago, MrZuiko said:

but OMG what were you thinking 😱

Haha- they didn’t cost too much and really benefited from cleaning

You should see what i’m up to with an ancient pair of Ross 😱

No idea about the rubber armour- it’s probably glued to the shell though so i wouldn't think it would be easy to remove in one piece! I expect they’re designed to be opened with armour in place though for service?

Mark

Edited September 27, 2020 by markse68

[MrZuiko]

Hi Mark well your a braver man than me 😉 I will phone my local repair guys (camserve) in Hellingly and pick their brains have been using them for years with my camera equipment etc they will probably tell me to leave it alone!.

Ash.

[markse68]

11 hours ago, WJC said:

depending on a moving sun, clouds, and the onset of evening—it can hardly be used in a professional setting.

That is a major drawback to the method!

[DaveL59]

2 hours ago, markse68 said:

That is a major drawback to the method!

esp in temperate climates like ours lol

[DaveL59]

3 hours ago, MrZuiko said:

Hi Mark thanks fella they need a good clean,that armour has years of dust but OMG what were you thinking 😱 would even attempt to strip them down! I don't think the seller knew what he had or what they sell for,the only pairs I've seen on fleabay cost £226 + £60 p&p from the US and they had no armour and were beaten up and the latest versions retail new between £600 and £900 😬. Does anyone here know how to take the armour off as I would like to see the rest of the binocular as I've only lifted the piece that covers the shoulder where it says Nikon 7.3.

I don't want to take the chance and ruin them coz when it gets cold they armour will come into it's own!

Clear skies all.

Ash.

 

Those are reported to be excellent Ash so well done on grabbing a bargain. I saw a pair of Audubon HR/5 got listed yesterday at £45 and 30 mins later when I got back indoors they'd gone. 

For the rubber armour, likely it is glued to the body and given the age and condition may be difficult to remove without damage. You may be able to work a long thin flat blade like a spatula under it and work it free but that would be risking it splitting/tearing. 

[MrZuiko]

Hi thanks, yes from what I'd found on the web indeed these were second to Nikon's 7x50 prostars which sell for over a £1000 I think I'll leave the rubber where it is and find out what will clean it and maybe soften a little,I've had vixen 20x80's should of kept those 🤨 and I've got a pair of Russian Tento 8x40's which are really nice although they have a military machine oil smell! Those Audubon HR/5 always fancied a pair........I'm always on fleabay looking for a bargin.When I mentioned to my other half regarding the Nikon's and how much I paid for them and how much they can go for ...she asked me if I was gonna sell them...hell no coz their a quality pair of bins!

Clear skies.

Ash.

[WJC]

I once had 2 Prostars. But both were stored in the basement at a time when my youngest son was needing some drug money. They were the least of my losses to the same thing. Fortunately, I think he as grown out of the need. Even so, there has been no word on reimbursement.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[DaveL59]

The Audubons in general are good, I've a MK2 and the HR/5 now. I find the HR/5 being smaller body fits my hand better tho I did have a fair amount of effort to repair the broken occular arm on them (there's a thread here in this section on that) and yet to strip them down to overhaul. 

[MrZuiko]

Greetings Bill from across the pond!

I'm very sorry to hear about your misfortune regarding your youngest son and of course your Nikon's.

I'd like to say I enjoyed your post on collimation and what to expect from your binoculars....even if maybe we expect too much!

Clear skies all.

Ash.

[WJC]

Thank you, Ash. And, for you Dave, Looky what I made the centerpiece for the cover of my first bino book! I'm mainly using my 8x32 Nikon SE, but the HR/5 traveled many miles for me. Pearl Harbor to Gettysburg; the Alamo to Anchorage; Cape Canaveral to Stellafane. 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by WJC

[MrZuiko]

Wow that's very nice pair of Audubons   ...it should of been the Nikon's only kidding! so in your opinion what's the perfect binocular,just interested not wanting to start "mine are better than yours" fight!

 

Ash.

[PeterW]

Optically the best are Nikon WX.... but only optically.... all binoculars are compromises, depends what you care about. 

Peter

[WJC]

2 hours ago, MrZuiko said:

Greetings Bill from across the pond!

I'm very sorry to hear about your misfortune regarding your youngest son and of course your Nikon's.

I'd like to say I enjoyed your post on collimation and what to expect from your binoculars....even if maybe we expect too much!

Clear skies all.

Ash.

“Expecting too much?” I’ve come to realize that is what bino forums are all about. I KNOW I am jaded. But that’s what caring for your neighbor and 50 years in optics can do for you. In a way, though, I am fortunate. While I am “arrogant,” “condescending,” and “self-serving,” I’ve been pleased to note that those who call those things rarely have bad things to say about my data ... just the delivery which, of course, has a reason to be what it is.

Visiting bino forums, one can come away with the notion that binocular optics are “upgraded” about twice a month when, in fact, there have probably been a half dozen “upgrades” in the last 150 years that the average observer could actually see. But then, bragging rights—based on the ability to waste money—is a powerful motivator.

In 1964, an interviewer—scrambling for something to say—asked McCartney what kind of bass strings he used. His answer ... “Long, shiny ones.” I think he would have been interested in the view and not the name on the backplates.

“The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it; ignorance my deride it. But in the end ... there it is.” — Winston Churchill

Cheers,

Bill  

[DaveL59]

Must get a copy of your book Bill, keep meaning to but somehow other stuff gets in the way 🙂 

As to which Bino is "best", much the same as the "which telescope is best" question I think - the ones you carry with you and have to hand at that moment. I've not chased the latest upgraded/top tier, funds being a part of the reason tho I've spent in the region of one top tier pair on the set I currently have I guess. My particular favourites in the set are:

Nikon MCF 7x15 (I've a recent pair of multi-coated ones and a couple from the 60's) - they slip in your pocket unnoticed so easy to always have around
Hensholdt Wetzlar Jagd 6x42 (1945/6 vintage)
Foton 7x35 (1992 vintage)
Swift Trilyte 7x35 (1980 vintage)
Nikon Sportstar EX 8x25 (pre the monkey taking a dump logo version 😉 )
Copitar 8x20 (mini reverse porro approx 1980)
Swift Audubon (HR/5 from 1989 and MK2 from 1978)
Minolta Classic Sport WP 10x50 (probably y2000 ish)

Have peeked through a few at country places where they've had the RSPB ones in the shops and while they are very nice, not to mention pricey, I've not been wowed enough to hanker after an expensive upgrade from the ones above and others in the collection 🙂 

Edited September 27, 2020 by DaveL59