24mm - 26mm Eyepiece shootout

[bomberbaz]

So I recently purchased a APM 24mm UFF eyepiece and decided to give it a workout tonight at a new darksite I was trying out.  Just briefly on the darksite, it was hard to tell what it is really going to be like tonight due to the lack of astronomical dark but it is promising and less than a half hour away.

Anyway, here we go with the starting line up. 1) Nagler 26 mm/82 degree FOV  2) Vixen NPL 25mm  3) BST 25mm  4) APM 24mm UFF. Equipment used with the eyepieces an Orion 10" dob, TV Powermate and Astronomik UHC

I tried to choose a range of objects to get a really good cross section. These were the Moon early on, then Albireo, M13, M39, M27 dumbbell nebula & M57 the ring, Bodes nebula (Galaxy) and finally Jupiter.  I spent a good deal of time on each object and mixed up the eyepiece running order to try and remain objective.

The moon gave a lovely crescent with both the Nagler, APM and NPL giving the best and sharpest views with the nagler and APM just shading the NPL into 2nd. The BST with a FOV of 1 degree was a little sloppy towards the edges of the moon, slightly stretched.

On albireo I clapped a powermate into the focuser and all 4 eyepieces showed good colour but the NPL seemed just that tad brighter. I retested this several times and there just seemed to be something extra. NPL shades it.

M13 next still with the powermate in and first big surprise here was that the Nagler came second to the NPL and APM with the BST coming last. There appeared to be a little more diamond dust with the NPL and APM with the APM maybe just that bit better, inconclusive that aspect. Again it wasn't a huge difference but it was there. I have a theory about this but I will mention it later.

The Ring and Dumbbell now. Still with the powermate I tried both with and without a UHC filter. A three way tie with the BST sadly following the other three. This wasn't a significant fail for the BST but the other three resolved more prominent structure than the BST, it was just more pronounced especially with the ring.

M39 was the time for the Nagler to shine and test the edge correctness of the eyepieces. TBH the APM and Nagler  performed well with edge correctness, just that the nagler is giving it over a deeper field of view and I just love it when you fall into the spacewalk of a good open cluster view. The NPL didn't do well here. When I was looking at the cluster, there was a kind of black fuzzing all around the edge of the FOV, last 10%. I hadn't noticed this before. The BST didn't have this but it is sloppy at the edges from around 50% gradually getting worse as you travel out.

Bodes nebula again three way tie with BST in last place. It was very faint and this was near 1pm but the skyglow north with dark adapted eyes towards where the sun was below the horizon was pretty horrendous. Anyway, it was faint, I had the PMate in still but it wasn't darkening the sky enough to liff out any detail at all. Like I said, barely visible. Just it was noticeably less visible with the BST. (I feel like I am picking on the poor little blighter now)

Quick break from comparisons and the double double. First time I have split this in a while but for this the PM and 12.5 Nikon go into the eyepiece holder. Spent a little while on this, such a lovely thing to behold.

Back to viewing and Jupiter, although low in the sky beckoned. I will point out that BST had gone to sulk and put itself back in the eyepiece case. Right Ok I did but it was at the stage where I had seen enough. Up steps the nagler to claim top spot here. Only just but slightly more detail coming from it. Again not a huge difference  and checked it several times to be sure. This was a brighter object of course.

Finally I haven't seen Saturn in I don't know how long so I put the PM/Nikon combo in again and settled on it. Ahhhh gorgeous, even at 10 degrees through a mushy low atmosphere she it beautiful. I spent a good 15 minutes looking at a pretty rubbish but none the less amazing view of Saturn before calling it a night.

Points to note. The Nagler with the powermate is giving me mag x92, the NPL x 96 and the APM x100. On a not fully dark sky this may be the reason why it seemingly underperformed on M13.  M13 was in the south where there was distant sky glow, M39 was more SEast which was seemingly a little darker. I am not making excuses, just pointing out an observation.

The best corrected FOV was the Nagler, only just, over the APM/NPL  and followed by the BST. Considering the FOV differences I chalk that as a very narrow win to the APM.

Contrast wise, Nagler/APM/NPL draw. I am taking into consideration magnification discrepancy and poor darkness conditions here.

All four eyepieces were very easy to use. Nagler and APm have the rubber style eyeguards and NPL/BST the screw adjusted type. I didn't have any concerns regarding any of them through the session.

I never really checked for coma I will be honest. The sharpest views came from the  Nagler/APM/NPL, the BST was great on axis but suffered badly in the outer 50%. I didn't buy the BST for a dob though, it for my mak and frac where it performs far better.

For me the overall winner is the APM. It was simply the more consistent performer of the night followed by the nagler, NPL and BST. Value for money wise the NPL takes some beating, it really is a smasher. Quality wise, the nagler goes without saying but the APM is a little known quantity but £1 for £1 has the potential to become a serious contender. 

I know I haven't got everything into this report, I was making notes all night but I got to a point where I simply marked them 1-4 and hoped I would remember 😆

In conclusion I will soon be amending my eyepiece collection after some more testing in different ota's. The one that will definitely be a keeper is the APM

Steve

[John]

Great stuff Steve

You just need to repeat the comparison under nice dark skies now before drawing conclusions

 

[bomberbaz]

8 minutes ago, John said:

Great stuff Steve

You just need to repeat the comparison under nice dark skies now before drawing conclusions

 

Yes I realise tonights comparison under not so good skies didn't do any of the combatants any favours, particularly the nagler. I am not in a rush to sell anything though so will hang fire for a couple of months but now I have something to work on.

Oh and @John, next comparisons can be done using the Taurus, that will be fun 👍

[John]

You have got to really push the equipment on really challenging targets as well as easy ones, under a variety of conditions, over a number of sessions, to draw consistent conclusions. Or at least that's what I found.

See what you think of them by the Autumn

 

 

 

[Don Pensack]

Looks like you weeded out one for sure, two maybe.

[Guest]

I was so tempted to buy the 25mm BST yesterday, but chose the 18mm instead.  I think I made the right choice...

[paul acreman]

Great Steve,

APM could be on to something then.

Look forward to some more observations.

cheers Paul

[bomberbaz]

39 minutes ago, merlin100 said:

I was so tempted to buy the 25mm BST yesterday, but chose the 18mm instead.  I think I made the right choice...

I placed a caveat comment at the end of the review merlin in that I bought it to use with a mak where it has performed far better than it does in the dob. That was to be expected.

I hope to do another shootout in a frac come the end of next month when we almost hit astronomical twilight so results will be hopefully more telling.

[bingevader]

2 hours ago, merlin100 said:

I was so tempted to buy the 25mm BST yesterday, but chose the 18mm instead.  I think I made the right choice...

I'm glad that Steve has added the caveat, because I, personally, think we need to be careful here!

A comparison has been made, and rightly so, between different EPs, but with considerably different prices!

If the Nagler and the APM weren't the best, we really would be needing to ask why.

However, that is not then to say, as Steve has rightly pointed out, that the others are to be avoided, especially if your pockets aren't that deep.  

[John]

Ben, you make a very good point there

A couple of years back I discussed comparions between the 8mm BST Starguider with my 8mm Ethos and basically was told that it was an unfair comparison - £50 vs £500+

Actually, the BST did rather well albeit over a somewhat smaller AFoV

Mind you, when you do a "group test" you can only use the eyepieces you have available. I was very lucky that FLO would lend me stuff for my reviews

All credit to Steve for compiling and posting this report 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

I placed a caveat comment at the end of the review merlin in that I bought it to use with a mak where it has performed far better than it does in the dob. That was to be expected.

I hope to do another shootout in a frac come the end of next month when we almost hit astronomical twilight so results will be hopefully more telling.

I was probably premature in my judgment of the BST 25mm. I was just thinking about it in my Sky-Watcher 200P Dobsonian. It may be great in a f8 4.5" reflector that I use. 

[Louis D]

@bomberbaz How did the 25mm BST perform with the Powermate?  At almost f/10, the edges should have been massively improved.

[bomberbaz]

2 minutes ago, Louis D said:

@bomberbaz How did the 25mm BST perform with the Powermate?  At almost f/10, the edges should have been massively improved.

Yes they were Louis, it was much better viewing at this level. On the M13 the views were really good, nothing wrong with it at all. If I were getting those views all the time, I would be more than happy. It was just the NPL and the APM which seemed to be teasing that little more out than it was. 

Also on the dumbbell it was a really good view too, this was located S/East so sky was perceived a little darker here which obviously helped.  it was on BODES and the RING (North) where lack of structure and lower contrast, even in not fully darkened skies became evident. Again though, not huge and a perfectly acceptable result. 

It didn't help against a not fully darkened sky. However one could argue that it is under these conditions where the eyepiece has to work that bit harder to get the results.

And I have to say I love the powermate, it really is a superb bit of kit that does not give any false colour or other distortions. 

[Guest]

I must admit, I do like the thought of having the full BST StarGuider set, so that means ALL of them.😉

[John]

3 minutes ago, merlin100 said:

I must admit, I do like the thought of having the full BST StarGuider set, so that means ALL of them.😉

Cherry pick the best ones and the ones that you will use. That goes for any range IMHO.

Getting fixated on owning whole ranges is a bit of a mugs game, having been there and done that

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, John said:

Cherry pick the best ones and the ones that you will use. That goes for any range IMHO.

Getting fixated on owning whole ranges is a bit of a mugs game, having been there and done that

 

I've already  got the 3.2mm, 8mm, 15mm and the 18mm should be here in a few days.  I think the 5mm and 12mm should be my limit.  What do you think, John?

[bomberbaz]

16 minutes ago, merlin100 said:

I've already  got the 3.2mm, 8mm, 15mm and the 18mm should be here in a few days.  I think the 5mm and 12mm should be my limit.  What do you think, John?

hahaha, you got me laughing now mate. You would have 6 out of 7 in the range if you did the above, you may as well grab the 25 as well if your going that far. It is nice to own a set.

I have twice had full sets, kinda miss not having them but that's a different story. 👍😅

Edited June 25, 2020 by bomberbaz

[John]

1 hour ago, merlin100 said:

I've already  got the 3.2mm, 8mm, 15mm and the 18mm should be here in a few days.  I think the 5mm and 12mm should be my limit.  What do you think, John?

I can't recall the scope you have ?

(sorry)

 

[Timebandit]

1 hour ago, merlin100 said:

I've already  got the 3.2mm, 8mm, 15mm and the 18mm should be here in a few days.  I think the 5mm and 12mm should be my limit.  What do you think, John?

 

52 minutes ago, bomberbaz said:

hahaha, you got me laughing now mate. You would have 6 out of 7 in the range if you did the above, you may as well grab the 25 as well if your going that far. It is nice to own a set.

I have twice had full sets, kinda miss not having them but that's a different story. 👍😅

 

At the less expensive end of the eyepiece range for an extra couple of pounds then you may of well finish the set for the price of an extra eyepiece.

But when you start to go up the eyepiece price range, then I do think it makes sense to know what you really need to get the best out of your individual eyepiece set . For someone who likes the Ethos for example, then the odd one or two so you can "Finish the set"  is just Sooo expensive to do . So you really need to get out of being a "collectionist "  to finish a set ,unless you want an empty bank balance 😕 

 

 

[John]

Over the years I've found 6mm to be a really useful focal length in a wide variety of scopes and there is no BST Starguider in that length. I would much rather put the £47 towards a decent 6mm (eg: a WO SPL perhaps) than buy the 3.2mm (which would not get anywhere near as much use) to "finish the set off". Likewise I would prefer to have something like a 30 Vixen NPL over the rather ordinary 25mm BST Starguider which costs about the same ( I owned both of these recently so was able to compare them).

But I do realize that some folks just have to have "the set" and I have been there myself with Tele Vue Plossls, Nagler T6's, Wide Fields and even the Ethos of which I've owned all the focal lengths at one point. Expensive habit, that was

Anyway, this is veering rather off the topic of Steve's helpful 24-26mm eyepiece comparison. Apologies for that Steve

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, John said:

I can't recall the scope you have ?

(sorry)

 

Sky-Watcher 200P Dobbie.

[Guest]

Sorry to Steve for hijacking the thread...☹️