Just about to spend my hard earned, your opinions? :o)

[James333]

Happy new year everyone

Ok, ive had a look at a few options and found im quite interested in the above 2 telescopes, whats the advantage of the flextube model? it costs more but im worried there is more to break on it? Is it just a portability/storage difference or is there more to it?

Also, how are these normally mounted, you never see them on tri pods etc in the pictures, are they designed to be sat on a firm level surface? I like the idea of being able to automatically follow the stars with the rotation of the earth but is this possible with this sort of scope? Even if it cant be automated, can an equitorial mount be used to allow easier following?

Any other options would be great, thanks so much for your time, I already know before anyone posts that you lot are so helpful :hello1:

Cheers, James

[Tim]

Hi James.

If you are anywhere near Coventry, you are welcome to come and see my 300 Flextube for yourself and have a play with it. It is fairly transportable (I take it to star parties) and packs away smaller so that it takes up less room in the shed. Setting it up is no more difficult than a normal newt really, and I found that being able to adjust the focal length in effect meant that I could bring a variety of cameras to focus that you normally wouldnt be able to do.

I have terrible skies, but can easily find objects like M57 with the dob. With a decent eyepiece (I borrowed MikeP's Pentax ones at Kelling) the difference was amazing.

You would normally mount them on a flat surface. On the downside, the frame and base is made of coated chipboard, which as you will know will absorb moisture and swell. If I keep mine I plan to replace the frame with marine ply. A smoother focusser wouldn't go amiss either. But for the money you will get outstanding views, especially if you have half decent skies and quality EP's.

You'd be very pushed to get the thing on an EQ mount imho, but you can buy or make a tilted base so that you only have to track manually in one direction. I am not sure if you could retrofit a 'push-to' system on them. Again, if I keep the 'scope, I plan to make a tilted base to enable easier tracking, but even without, you soon pickup the required movement and they become second nature.

I have to say, the planets look AWESOME through the Flextube, and the moon, with a dark filter is simply incredible, takes your breath away. But as I say, if you are localish, pop over and have a look before you buy.

HTH a bit

TJ

[James333]

Thanks loads for the offer, thats really kind of you, im down in cornwall though so its a bit of a treck!

I should add too, is it possible to get photos using this scope too?

Thanks

[Tim]

It's possible, but tricky. IMHO, if you really want to do astrophotography, then go for a different setup. Or get two setups going (which is what I do), one for visual (dob) and the imaging scope.

The blurb for the flextube says its possible to directly mount a dslr, but I cant see how. You can get a DSLR to focus, which I dont think you can do on a normal dob, but you'll get a bit of coma. You will also only be able to take very short exposures, no more than 10 secs, but the brighter objects will come through with enough exposures. I have taken some reasonable moon images with a webcam, but needed to manually adjust the position as smoothly as possible, which is tricky. You really get a sense of how fast the earth is spinning when you start looking through the EP, or even more at a camera's live output.

Is this your first telescope?

[John]

Hi (again)

These scopes are dobsonians which means that they are on a simple up / down / left / right mount that you push to track. They are simple, work extremely well and offer the most "bang for your buck" in terms of outright viewing performance. You can take simple lunar and planetary snapshots with them but they don't automatically track the stars and you have to find the things you want to point the scope at. Very popular though because they show you so much for the £'s spent.

For a scope that tracks objects and is more suited to astro photography something like this would be more suitable:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=Skywatcher_200P_EQ5_GOTO

This one will also, once properly set up, locate objects for you to look at - thats called GOTO.

John

[James333]

thanks for the replies, yes this is my first scope. Im maybe considering different mounts now but its tricky, I dont want a goto as i'd rather use the money saved on beter optics, i would however prefer automated tracking, can i get an equitorial mounted scope without goto but with the ability to track movement?

does the price rais dramatically when we talk about these different mounts?

and also, if i were to get an equitorial mounted manual scope, can an automated tracking set up be added at a later date?

Thanks again, James

[James333]

what about this one if I do a bit of overtime and bump my budget upto £700?

10" with a motor?

I assume the when it says motor, it means thats all I need to track an object for photography etc?

Thanks

[James333]

oops, heres the link!!

http://www.harpersphoto.co.uk/product/explorer-250px_heq5_telescope/

[James333]

wow, the same is available on FLO for £851 on the above site, its £719 delivered!

Does this mean its a bargain price??

[Helen]

The HEQ5 mount is great, but I'd suggest the 250 scope is a big beast to start off with! Have you seen any of these scopes in the flesh? They all look small on screen, but.....

Helen

[James333]

:mrgreen: Im not looking for a small one though :mrgreen:

i have really dark skies here in the countryside of cornwall so I wont be needing to move it about much. Portability isnt really an issue

[John]

wow, the same is available on FLO for £851 on the above site, its £719 delivered!

Does this mean its a bargain price??

There have been a round of price rises in astro equipment in the past week or two - it would be worth checking to see if the lower price still stands - and if they have the scope in stock.

John

[Tim]

what about this one if I do a bit of overtime and bump my budget upto £700?

10" with a motor?

I assume the when it says motor, it means thats all I need to track an object for photography etc?

Thanks

Sadly, its not really that easy. Yes it will help, but even with a telescope that tracks the motion of the stars, even the most expensive of mounts aren't accurate enough to get the really long exposures you need. Most of us who take images use a second smaller telescope mounted alongside the main one which independently tracks the stars movements more accurately. When I spend a lot of time doing a polar alignment, I can get my EQ6 to track reasonably accurately for a minute or two, but with a scope of that size, you'll start to get trails on the stars after about 45 secs or so.

It's a shame really that there isn't an imminent star party, as you really would do well to see all the equipment that is needed to satisfy your particular interest. It would be a pity to buy stuff at the start that wouldn't work well as part of a longer term plan to increase your equipment. For instance, I have scopes which I use to take images of deep sky objects and planets, others to grab images of wider areas of the sky, and then there is the Dobsonian which is just brilliant for visual work. I've just carted mine outside to have a quick peek at M42 as I realised I havent yet had a good look at it with the Dob yet. I should have mentioned, it stands about 5 feet tall! (300 Flextube).

I know its a long way, but the offer stands about taking a look at the kit. I can also show you images that were taken through each telescope, and the bits and bobs and wiring and dew control that you need for any serious attempt at taking photos. It's best to get good advice from the start and get kit that will do exactly what you want, and that you can add to. I cant promise good advice, as I am also new to this (1 year), but I can show you what each bit is capable of.

From what you have said so far, the real question is, how serious will you be about taking photo's? If astrophotography will be your main concern (it got me hook line and sinker) then that Explorer may not be ideal for you. I have an 8" Newtonian astrograph which is made for taking photo's, but can be used visually too. To be honest, I have ended up hardly ever looking through any of the telescopes, simply because the pictures that come out of them impress me far more than seeing the stuff visually. But I have very poor skies up here, so that doesnt help.

So, how serious/important is the photography side to you? And do you have any cameras etc already?

And secondly, what sort of photographs appeal to you? For instance, the deep space nebulae. or pictures of the moon, or the planets?

As regards the price thing, I know FLO do a price check, so it's well worth speaking to Steve at FLO and seeing what he can do. Personally, I have had very good experiences with FLO and heartily recommend them. Also, I would never buy a telescope from a non-dedicated telescope shop, you just wont get the support and intelligent accurate answers to the questions you will have.

Cheers

TJ

[russ]

Also worth checking that HEQ5 in the Harpers link isn't an older non Syntrek version.

Personally i would have some concerns about the 250PX on the HEQ5. Just about feasible for some visual, not really a starter for imaging. You'll need spare capacity in the mount for imaging and that 10" tube will max out the mount before you get started.

I think you maybe better off taking a two pronged attack at the dilemma. Get a cheap but very capable light bucket now. Say a brand new 10" Skyliner solid tube for just over £300. Or perhaps a secondhand 12" dob for the same money or less. That will provide breathtaking views from Cornwall.....i have first hand experience.

Bank the remainder for a seperate imaging setup. Good thing about imaging is you don't need a huge almighty scope. Just a couple of little refractors and one of those can be very cheap indeed. Will also means you don't need an almighty huge mount. How ever you look at it though, imaging is a huge money pit. You had better brace yourself to find a lot lot more than £700......more like 3-4 times that amount once you get into it.

Regards

Russ

[James333]

Thanks for the replies, im thinking that imaging isnt anywhere near as important to me as actual viewing at the moment, and maybe if I were to get into it more, i'd try a different set up, I am however wanting an equitorial mounted scope, they look easier to use and more practical, is the 250 good optically?

And Rus, what do you mean maxed out? weight wise?

With a dob, will I need a table to sit it on? how crude is the mount to move from object to object?

Is there any other scopes people can recommend? ideally at least a 10" reflector on an equitorial mount (did i read EQ is short for equitorial or does that mean something else?!?)

Thanks, James

[James333]

Also, as said before, portability shouldnt really be an issue

[Astro_Baby]

James a big Dob is HUGE - it wont be sitting on a table for sure.

A good bet would be a non GoTo EQ mounted scope which would give the tracking for visual and short exposure photography.

The Sky Watcher scopes are very much the workhorse of lots of astronomers and are perfectly good scopes. I went for a SW-200 on an HEQ5 before the Syntrek version was around. That made the mount a bit cheaper. It tracks perfectly for visual work.

I know lots of people like Dobsonians and they are not without their charms but I know from past experience it gets on my nerves constantly having to bump the scope to keep something in view - thats why I wanted an EQ mount so I could just watch and let the mount track the target object.

With a good polar alignment my HEQ5 will track totally perfectly for visual.

I think you should take a look at a big scope as well - these things can be very large, heavy and awkward. I almost fainted when I saw how big the 200 was in its packing crates.

Dont forget on top of the scope you will want extras such as dewshield, red light torch, books, extra eyepieces and LOTS of warm clothing. Its cold out there at 2am.

I did a write up of my scope HERE - it may be useful for you.

[GazOC]

A 10" f5 Newt on an EQ mount will give great views but can be a real pain to use. The eyepiece ends up in all sorts of awkward positions that will have you limbo dancing around the mount to reach it. I'd advise on a 8" f5 as being far more usable for an EQ mount or a bigger (say 12") Dob mounted scope, the difference in views between a 10" Newt and a 8" Newt is that great, the big step is 8" to 12".

[James333]

I know lots of people like Dobsonians and they are not without their charms but I know from past experience it gets on my nerves constantly having to bump the scope to keep something in view - thats why I wanted an EQ mount so I could just watch and let the mount track the target object.

With a good polar alignment my HEQ5 will track totally perfectly for visual.

I think I am set on the EQ mount over the dob, I know im paying extra but i think its worth it in the long run as I know I wont ever be satisfied with the dob.

Astro_Baby, thanks so much for that write up, its excellent, helpfull and inspiring I cant wait to get home from work to find a few boxes of telescope to set up, im really quite excited now. I know im looking for a big one but if bigger is better in terms of catching light, I dont mind it being heavy, hard to set up or hard to move, I will be moving it about 2 meters from my conservatory to my back garden where im lucky enough to have very dark skies and will always have a hand to move it if needed.

If I were to get this one

http://www.harpersphoto.co.uk/product/explorer-250px_heq5_telescope/

I gather it is relatively cheap as it has an older design mount on it but the telescope itself is still the Explorer 250 but with a not so good mount, what is the difference in mounts? Both motorised EQ mounts, is quality really that different?

The FLO equivilant in price is

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=skywatcher_200p_heq5_syntrek

This however is the 200 and still £25 more than the £250

Where the 250 with the syntrek mount is £851

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=skywatcher_250px_heq5_syntrek

Whats so good about the syntrek mount? Is it really worth an extra £150?

I dont mind having to limbo into all sorts of positions to see, im sure it cant be excessively bad, im tall!

I understand the jump from 8" to 12" would be more impressive but is that the same as saying its a big jump from 6" to 10"? I dont want to be buying another scope anytime soon and dont want to be left thinking I wish I got the slightly bigger one, I suppose now, it comes down to whether these two different mounts are really that vastly different?

Im hoping to order tomorrow, cant wait

Thanks

[GazOC]

That mount is right on its limit with that scope, if you are dead set on a 10" Newt then I would go for a EQ6 mount.

The point I was making with 8" vs 12" was that the equatorial mount you are considering can carry either a 8" or a 10" and IMHO the difference in views between the two sizes of scope is not near large enough to make extra size, weight etc worth the trouble (I've owned both these exact set ups and I think Russ has as well) but if you were willing to buy a Dob then the extra resolution that a 12" offers over he 8" would be something to consider. I know when first starting out you think you won't mind the awkward use or the weight but, believe me, after a while these factors can, and do, affect how much and how often you enjoy the scope.

Just my 2p.

[Helen]

To get the most out ofa scope you need to be prepared to 'observe' not just 'look'. The subtle detail in objects only starts to come through when you spend time on an object eg with a globular cluster your first view might be that its a fuzzy blob, but as you keep watching and concentrating then individual stars will start to apear at the edge of the glob, and then more towards the centre. This makes the observing so much more rewarding. You won't/can't spend this time, with your eye still at the scope, if your body is in an awkward position! So comfort is vital (one of my best astro accessories is a small mechanics stool!). And if you're tall that can make it worse not better.

Ease of handling and set up is also more important than people think. There will be lots of nights where observing decisions are marginal - its cold, you're tired, it might cloud over - the time taken to set up and dismantle will influence whether you get the scope out more than you imagine in the first flush of enthusiasm! I've been there, and it took a very small scope on a photo tripod which was left set up and so could be grabbed for a quick 15 minute look (which then often turned into much longer) to get me back into the hobby.

An 8 inch scope is a good size, you'll see loads, its easier to handle, would work better on an HEQ5 and will keep you in observing for ages. Its also good for astrophotography.

Helen

[russ]

The Syntrek mounts use the same drives as the Synscan equipped mounts. They are much higher quality units that track better and slew at much higher speeds. Also, you can upgrade to full Goto by just changing the handset. So definitely worth every penny of the £150 extra.

I would like to have one last ditch attempt of talking you out of the 10 but i can tell you are dead set on it. And i fully understand the attraction. As Gaz says, i've had the 250PX on the HEQ5 and the EQ6. Seemed like such a great idea. Without doubt my least favourite setup. Damn scope ends up in all sorts of silly places. Forever twisting the scope in the rings to get the eyepiece better placed, only to find i altered the balance in the process. And in the winter the tube point blank refused to twist anyway. Which meant i was either bent across, or on tip toes, or on a knee. Had a pain in my neck, my back. Couldn't hold still long enough to get a prolonged look at the object.

Off course the views were great, although a bit shakey on the HEQ5. And depending on where things were located, the eyepiece was sometimes quite nicely placed for comfortable viewing.

The EQ6 makes far more sense if you are getting the 10. The HEQ5 is shakey at medium to high power. Where as the EQ6 has no such problems.

Russ

[John]

Great post Helen - that is very good advice

James333:

"I dont mind having to limbo into all sorts of positions to see, im sure it cant be excessively bad, im tall!"

Believe me - you will mind and it can be bad - as Helen (and Russ now) says if you are not comfortable with your scope you simply won't be able to reach it's potential.

I reckon comfortable / simple / convenient viewing is worth a few inches in aperture - thats why I use alt-azimuth mounted scopes !.

John

[acey]

Don't be tempted to get as much aperture as you can afford with a first scope as you may end up with more than you need. An 8-inch scope will be more stable than a 10-inch on the same mount. If you've got dark skies (as you say you have) then an 8-inch will allow you to easily observe all the Messiers visually, as well as hundreds if not thousands of NGCs. I use an 8-inch and have been telling myself for years that I should upgrade to a 12-inch, but the extra bulk has always put me off.

If you can see the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxy clearly with the naked eye from your garden then your skies are dark enough. If not then you might be better off driving somewhere darker.

There is no such thing as a perfect all-round scope: a first scope is a compromise, unless you're really sure what you want to do with it. If you're a deep-sky visual observer (like me) then you want the biggest dob you can handle; if you want to look at the Moon and planets then a high-end refractor could be your best bet, on a tracking mount to enable steady high-power views. For imaging you want a driven mount. For DSOs you might want GOTO, if you don't want to read a map. THe list goes on.

I'd recommend an 8-inch dobsonian (which is what I've got), and if you're not happy with the mount then get an equatorial later and put it on it. You'll have lots left over from your £600 budget - get two decent eyepieces, one decent star atlas, and lots of warm clothes.

When you first look through an 8-inch at the Andromeda galaxy you'll be disappointed and wish you had a bigger scope. But if you got a 12-inch you'd be equally disappointed by your first view. After looking at fifty or a hundred galaxies you'll realise that Andromeda looks amazing through 10x50 binoculars. What really counts is not the equipment, it's the eye and brain that's using it - and that comes down to experience, which you'll get lots of if your set-up is simple enough not to put you off using it.

Andrew

[Tim]

With a syntrek mount you can easily upgrade to using the free EQMod. This little program ties in with an astronomy program and enables you to very accurately align your telescope, and if you should desire it, permit you to use goto if you want to. You can also control your mount from a wireless gamepad, which is very intiuative, and is a MASSIVE help in finding the harder objects.

When I got my first telescope, I was astounded how hard it was to find anything. This is especially true if your skies are good, as there are so MANY stars it is hard to differentiate. With the option of GOTO, you have a headstart and wont give up on the harder objects so easily. Big time saver, less time spent shuffling round the sky, more time getting photos or actually looking at stuff!

For all the cables and little adapter that you need to run EQMod from a laptop or PC, I paid around £80, including the wireless controller.

All the best with your purchase, let us know how you get on!!

TJ